HDJ81 transmission upgrades

[Enigma]

Not getting any bites in the 80 section, so I'll try here amongst all you wise-asses.

I think it's time I started saving my nickles for tranmission upgrades/rebuilt.
I've had my 81 for a few years now with no tranny issues, but much like some spouses, it has gotten heavier, the wheels are wider, and a few performance upgrades since the relationship began.
I've now had the warning light come on a few times in recent trips, usually a long haul up a hill where I had to manually drop it down out of drive to keep some decent speed up.
With fuel rod modifications. more boost, larger tires, more weight, I've had the dreaded torque converter shudder happen a lot also.
One issue I also had while on the Rubicon a couple years ago was while trying to crawl up a ledge, truck was in low range, 1st gear, lockers on, and I could not bump it over the ledge. The idle would stay at something like 1500 rpm (going on memory here) no matter how far my foot was pushed through the floor, black smoke would be pouring out the exhaust, but it wouldn't hook up. I finally had to bump it over much faster than I preferred.

So, what are our options?

Extremve valave body from Rodney?

Heavy Duty torque converter again from Rodney?

I tend to drive my 81 more like it had a V8 gas engine when on the street, and usually it responds just fine to it...usually.

I do have an aftermarker oil cooler. can't recall what size or specs.


From the recommended shops sticky, TCS sounds like a good place to go and see what they have to say.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Well the converter comes to mind since its already shuddering (slipping) and you are having the over heat light come on. Both are related directly to the converter.

The trans temp light comes on at 300f and at that stage damage is already being done so its not a good thing to see ever. Is the fluid burnt?

I have both my VB's getting turned into extreme VB now. I had my converter rebuilt, stalled down and HD lock up clutch installed by Roadrunner converters in AZ (cost $250 with shipping).

I would say the minimum would be a VB and a converter with hopes no damage has been done to the trans its self. I do not think anyone should be turning up the wick on there 1HD's A442's with out those mods. Also install a trans temp gauge.

YMMV

 

[Enigma]

Yes the fluid is burnt a bit I think.

$250, that does sound intriguing!

What specs did you give them? I have no real idea what a good stall speed would be for my uses.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Yes the fluid is burnt a bit I think.

$250, that does sound intriguing!

What specs did you give them? I have no real idea what a good stall speed would be for my uses.

Well best to get the burn fluid out ASAP since its not doing you any favours.

Yeah I was shocked how cheap it was, Granted its no Wholesale converter. I told them I wanted it stalled to 1500-1600RPM with 450ft/lbs and a HD lock up. They had it done in one day and on the way back to me. I have not tested it yet since its all part of my diesel swap but I know if a few who have used the same place and spec's and have been very happy. TCS wanted $900 for the same thing.

 

[wrongway around]

You can only lower the stall so much ,which isn't that much and its a guessing game. I lowered my stall and don't like it ,I would never do it again unless I'm re gearing. Higher egts with the extra fuel at low revs.. To start you should get a tranny temp.gauge just to see what temps your running, once you get used to controlling the temps with revs and lockup,and change the fluid. The shudder could be the pilot on the front of the converter is oblonged , they do get bunned up when run haarrdd, plus alot of times this little quirp gets missed by the gurus.but ya the converter sounds hooped. Kind of a gamble only doing half a tyranny while its out. If this is a winter project I might have something with the v/b in the near future, thanks to wheelingnoob pointing to longbow ,apperantly he knows what he's talking about when it comes to v/b a tranny friend says. In the works when my buddy slows down a bit. Ya talk to tcs yourself about the price ,mine wasn't 900 and they had never done one to the extent they did mine before,and that was only last year. Got any links to guys running an extreme t/c from the guys down the states with the 200 dollar tc Sorry jeremy.. not that your not on to something good ,but man you have not even tried it. I know its the internet ,but its a little local on here.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

You can only lower the stall so much ,which isn't that much and its a guessing game. I lowered my stall and don't like it ,I would never do it again unless I'm re gearing. Higher egts with the extra fuel at low revs.. To start you should get a tranny temp.gauge just to see what temps your running, once you get used to controlling the temps with revs and lockup,and change the fluid. The shudder could be the pilot on the front of the converter is oblonged , they do get bunned up when run haarrdd, plus alot of times this little quirp gets missed by the gurus.but ya the converter sounds hooped. Kind of a gamble only doing half a tyranny while its out. If this is a winter project I might have something with the v/b in the near future, thanks to wheelingnoob pointing to longbow ,apperantly he knows what he's talking about when it comes to v/b a tranny friend says. In the works when my buddy slows down a bit. Ya talk to tcs yourself about the price ,mine wasn't 900 and they had never done one to the extent they did mine before,and that was only last year. Got any links to guys running an extreme t/c from the guys down the states with the 200 dollar tc Sorry jeremy.. not that your not on to something good ,but man you have not even tried it. I know its the internet ,but its a little local on here.

There is no extreme converters being made other than Wholesale. They are simply rebuilding the converter, lowing the stall and installing modern friction material (carbon) on the lock up. Wholesale uses a entirely new converter on there A440f upgrade and so there is nothing similar with mine. I just know of other guys using Roadrunner and being happy with the work and the converters working well. I'm sure TCS does something to justify the cost but in talking with them I did not hear of anything different in his detailed explanation to me about there mods.

There has been a rather large change in the VB information so all bets are off at this point. It needs to be tested and for that you will need to wait for the outcome. None of the mods done to my VB have been confirmed, that's part of the reason I have a few A440's now taking up space in my garages. I have confidence but I think its maybe a bit premature to pump it to others.



If you want proven and tested call Wholesale and get a converter and EVB.

 

[wrongway around]

Yes the a440 is a different beast. And the a442f hydrolic is almost non existing in the USA and rare in Canada. The v/b upgrade seems to me to be a good thing all round. The a440 tc wholesale doesn't even want the core I heard, but the a442 they want,and is in high demand with no availible cores . My tc is a ford super duty material cut down to fit ,pretty basic really. My real problem was the pilot was elongated along with weak friction material. When it comes to the 442 I think the tc is tough enough already with a simple rebuild and minor upgrade with linnings. If I had an 440 I would be thinking wholesale ,or your route with roadrunner not tcs. I do think your on to something with your setup and hope it works as a major break through.

 

[ElectricDyck]

It's simple driving style adjustment to keep your temps under control once you have a gauge. I unscrewed the stock sensor, brought it to lordco, found a thread adapter to an autometer electronic gauge and threaded it in, routed the wires, ran 12v acc power to the gauge, and tapped off the dash lights for the light. I also do a drain and fill every second oil change, probably excessive but when I tow the travel trailer I'll hit 230f on hills frequently.

I've never had any shudders or stalls but I also have 4 88s, not great for 110 km/h plus on the highway but nice for idling up obstacles.

 

[Cruisin']

As E.D. said above, its been interesting watching what the trans temp does when trying different gears on hills. Dropping from 3rd to 2nd on the Hope Slide hill (60km/h, family on board, M101 and lotsa gear) I was able to maintain the same speed, but with the higher RPM I could watch the trans temp actually start to drop. Being able to monitor the temp on a constant basis I think is key to keeping it under control. Its a juggling act between that and EGTs.

I also have my trans temp gauge sender in the spot where the idiot light sender was, so its getting the worst case readings, heat immediately as it leaves the tranny and heads for the cooler.

 

[canucksafari]

Its the spin to win principle Jason - drop down some gears. It has the exact same impact on EGTs and coolant temps.

Some years ago in the 5spd on a bloody hot day, I had to do 3rd all the way up Kootenay Pass. I still got there a few minutes later than the people sailing by my a 100. There was quite a collection of them at the top and near the top with overheated engines.

I do the same with the wife's auto. On a long steep grade, I drop it down into 2nd and never have a heating issue.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

Just so you guys know when people rave about tcs its usually not the one in langley, I believe they are called tcs performance in Arizona I think, from personal experience I would not deal with tcs in langley.

 

[Splittilps]

After killing the transmission in mine and having to do a rebuild 4500km away from home. I wish I would have just went with the extreme trans from Rodney when I wanted to. Now I have a rebuilt transmission that I payed 3200 for and now have to decided what to do.

One issue I also had while on the Rubicon a couple years ago was while trying to crawl up a ledge, truck was in low range, 1st gear, lockers on, and I could not bump it over the ledge. The idle would stay at something like 1500 rpm (going on memory here) no matter how far my foot was pushed through the floor, black smoke would be pouring out the exhaust, but it wouldn't hook up.

Same kinda thing happen to me. I was trying to back up my M101 up a hill and the truck just wouldn't push it and then that was it. I had to limp home in second and then got it towed, up to this point the transmission seemed fine.

I also over heated twice 3 years ago but after I changed the oil, installed a cooler and temp gauge. After the gauge install 230 deg is the highest that I saw.

I understand that the extremes are pricey but having your transmission die a long way from home really sucks.

 

[jcolvin]

Yep, get the gauge and watch your revs. Put the gauge sender in the line between the tranny and the cooler so you are reading the temp right out of the TC, not the pan temp. In the meantime always keep your revs above 3000 rpm on long uphill hauls unless you are in lockup. At least for me, 3000 rpm is the magic number to keeping the temp from climbing.

 

[Enigma]

I received a reply from Rodney at Whoelsale down in Oz. This would probably be the best route to go, if it wasn't so damn expensive.

Hi Jeff it’s Rodney here from Wholesale Automatics,

Thank you for contacting Australia’s Largest 4 Wheel Drive Automatic Transmission Company.

Please remember to look at both the web links below and the attachments above.

Is a very common problem and we build a Heavy Duty Billet 80/100 Series Diesel Torque Convertor for $1250 Aus “Outright”. This will cure this problem for ever and we have these units in stock ready to go.

There is a Fully Refundable Deposit of $450 Aus until we receive your old valve body back here in Australia at your own cost by any means of Air Freight. We can also arrange return freight and simply deduct the cost of the return freight from the deposit as required.

Required Options:
1/ Heavy Duty Recalibrated Nomad A442F Valve Body Kits are $995 Aus “Change Over”
http://www.youtube.com/wholesaleautomatics#p/u/2/EsHNwG4Lk8g
http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/release.asp?NewsId=4651

2/ Complete Temp Gauge Kit $265 Aus
http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/release.asp?NewsId=42067

Freight via FedEx 25 Jumbo Box at 30Kg’s is $372 Aus (Insured).

You can pay either by Direct Bank Transfer or Credit Card.

Banking Details:
Commonwealth Bank Of Australia
Swift Code: CTBAAU2S
BSB Number: 063199
Account Number: 10007337
Account Name: Wholesale Automatic Transmissions

Your order would leave Wholesale Automatics within 4-7 days of payment being received.

Hope this helps
Kind Regards
Rodney Hudson-Davies
Wholesale Automatic Transmissions
Factory 2/4 Melrich Road
Bayswater
Victoria
Australia 3153
Phone: +613-97628004
www.automatictransmission.com.au

 

[Enigma]

Approx $2800 CDn dollars according to my calculations. It would appear the AUS dollar to CDN rate has somewhat equalized recently.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Good Information.

If my redone converter does not work out I plan to get there billet one for my A440.

Interested to see what you end up doing.

 

[Enigma]

Interested to see what you end up doing.

Nothing...for awhile anyways. Other priorities right now, all I can do is research and speculate for the time being.

 

[Enigma]

Still speculating

Of course I could modify my driving style (and add some gauges) like Andrew suggested, but driving slower just sucks when the engine wants to go faster.

 

[ElectricDyck]

After turning up boost, adding a top mount intercooler, and turning up the fuel I could spin the tires on dry pavement around a corner when it shifted gears. My tranny has never shown any signs of problems.....after about 6 months of this I noticed if I gunned it off the line it would slip for a second when shifting gears rather than trying to spin the tires . I promptly started easing off the throttle until after the shift......no problems since.

On the weekend I towed my travel trailer (recently lifted another few inches) back from osoyoos packed with family, bikes, canoe, skateboards, scooters and nerf guns I've always been able to keep the tranny temps around 210 f by pulling the hills in 2nd gear, 3000 rpm but in the hot weather with all the extra weight I hit 250 degrees through the slow moving hair pins on this side of princeton.

I have a big tranny cooler but I think for the hot weather I'm going to add another of equal size....

I wish there were a more cost effective fix than $2800 plus labour. Don't get me wrong I love my LC but I can't justify that much dough on a truck I could replace for $10k...

 

[wrongway around]

there has been a couple roadrunner built tc 's around vancouver with good results for the tc fix only . just watch the shipping quotes. i think nobb has the best route. plus if he gets his truck going he has a one off mod done by longbow (mud handle) that gets lockup in 2-3-4 gears . im sure he will be marketing these himself as soon as it finally gets tested..