Getting ready mount my XRC12 in the ARB, couple questions... (1 Viewer)

[jynx]

Ok, so after a year or so I am getting ready to mount my XRC12 on my 80 and the instructions that come with it really, REALLY suck. I have read greentrucks threads and will be waterproofing it prior to installation.

So here are a couple questions:

- mounting the fairlead, in the 80 series ARB bumpers, do the lower mounting bolts share the same bolts with the fairlead mount? If not do I need to drill new mounting holes?

- do I need to clock the housing? Seems having it on the "back" of the housing would be easier to reach in and rotate. I know most folks clock the housing to put the engagement lever on top.

- I know greentruck clearanced his XRC fairlead to fit the ARB mount before swapping on the WARN fairlead. I positioned my XRC fairlead and even at the highest point it doesn't contact the reinforcing braces on the ARB.

- I know alot of folks think the WARN fairlead on these bumpers is a must, and on a severe side pull I agree it would help, however I am wondering if my fairlead is mounting flush with no interference, then how is that any different than any other standard mounted winch? For example the Road Armor bumpers made for the 15k winches have no reinforcing for side pulls and I don't think I have read of any failures. Just looking for thoughts on this.

I picked up my spacer blocks today, 3/4" x 1- 1/2" x 8" steel bar stock, $20, way better than the $55 that they want for the WARN kit. Going to pick up some good Grade 8 or 10.9 hardware to replace the 8.8 (grade 5) hardware that it came with. I plan to just mount the control box on the winch for now but plan to relocate it eventually.

I hope to get this knocked out this weekend so any thoughts and responses would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks,

Matthew

 

[greentruck]

Hey Matthew,
This is one of those projects that at first seems to get more complicated, hopefully an indication it will get simpler real quick.

* Yep, with the Warn fairlead, the lower winch mount bolts mount the fairlead, too. If you use the XRC-supplied fairlead, you will need to drill a new set of holes to mount the fairlead. I know I did it and it worked and then I did the Warn fairlead, so nothing irreversible if you want to go that way and try it.

* You'll want to clock it to get the Engage handle in a comfortable place that's well-protected. If you have it apart to do the grease, then you basically just put it back together with the end rotated to the appropriate position. IIRC, the manual gives directions, but easier to just watch it come apart, then rotate as needed while getting everything set right.

* It'll work, it just looks a little odd. Slap a license plate over it like I do and they don't have to look at it if it's so ugly it bothers small children and ladies...

* One other thing is having the web tied in to the fairlead helps some if you have a high winch point, as it will resist that pressure better.

This is one of those things that you really can't tell about. Some other bumper may have thicker components, which could account for similar appearance but different ratings. If you look at the ARB, it's not super thick, they're depending on the design and bracing to resist sideways forces, etc. The tie-in to the front lip is part of that, so in the end I decided I wanted to spend the extra bucks to use the tie-in feature. Half the time I've ever been stuck enough to use the winch, there ended up being an off-center pull, so my experience guides me here. On the other hand, my experience means I don't get stuck much anymore -- or maybe just getting old and chicken. YMMV

That said, if you know your equipment's limitations, then it's your call. There's no need to start with anything other than what you have planned. See if it works for you. If not, it's an easy upgrade when you get around to it.

One more tip. You'll probably want to figure out something to do with the recovery/tiedown hooks. I reattached mine, which required longer bolts. I think the original bolts will work with the ARB, provided you omit the hooks. One more thing to catch later, doesn't need to be during the install, although easier to do it then.

Good luck with the install. I'll try to keep an eye out if you have anything come up, just drop me a line here or via PM.

 

[jynx]

Thanks, I got the grade 8 hardware for the main mounting. Do you remember the WARN part number for the fairlead?

I found WRN 5742 in a post by 80t0ylc. I found that one on Summit that I can order, but it looks like the long vertical bolts have to be purchased separately by the installer, does that sound right?

And then you drill the holes thru the fairlead to match the lower mounting holes on the foot of the winch, correct?

 

[greentruck]

Matthew,
Yes, the Warn fairlead is the #5742. I'm pretty sure that's the same one that fits most of their consumer grade winches.

It's hazy, but I'm pretty sure the big vertical bolts were in the mounting kit along with the spacer plates. No big deal either way, it's a fairly standard bolt, just uses one of the ny-lock acorn nuts that are self locking.

I'm fairly certain the Warn fairlead comes with the mounting holes already drilled.

I think I found the number for the longer bolts that allow you to retain the OEM recovery hooks. I have a receipt for 10 of the M12x70 bolts, Fastenal Part #11114725. You don't need ten, which I remembered ruefully after finding out the darn things were $3.42/each. You may be able to find them cheaper, but they are fine thread, so sorta special.

 

[jynx]

Mike,

I have a tube of Moly Valvoline and a tube of Lucas XTRA heavy duty green. Which would you recommend? The green has a higher temp rating and is recommended for far equipment but doesn't appear to have any moly, but says it is wash out resistant. Lucas has always done me good and the higher temp rating (500+) vs. the moly (375) seems promising. Both are NGLI #2.

Thanks

Matthew

 

[jynx]

So I went with the Moly.

It is 1 AM central time and I just finished mounting the winch and solenoid box in the bumper. I will get it back on the truck tomorrow and post up some pictures.

After fiddling with the included XRC fair lead I now know why you want the WARN one. I will get it on order tomorrow as well.

 

[greentruck]

Long day, I'll bet and you'll be happy to hit the sack after it. I think you;re probably OK on the grease. I might have taken the one with the higher temp rating, but it sounds like the moly will do the job.

If you do have a Cat dealer, that stuff I used is really not expensive -- well more expensive than most grease, but it was like $5/tube. But no need to be overly picky if you cleaned that messy factory stuff out, which I think contributes many issues that people run into with winches.

Yeah, I hated spending the $$ on the Warn fairlead, as it cost 25% of what the whole darn XRC cost me. In the end, it's the better set-up.

 

[jynx]

Well I got it all mounted and wired up, but I have a question about operation.

So I was spooling the cable in and out to make sure I had it hooked up right. Well after a few runs in and out I was spooling it in and it kicked itself over and started spooling in by itself and letting off the trigger didn't stop it immediately. I had to bump the trigger to get it to kick out.

I spooled out more cable and played with it more and it did the same thing several more times. I played with it a little more then spooled it up and unplugged the controller.

I took apart the controller and it looked super simple, so could it be the switch or should I take apart the the solenoid pack and check that out.

I am leaning toward the switch to start but really don't know.

Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[jynx]

Here is how it all went into the bumper. (cell phone pic, better pics below) The solenoid is mounted in the passenger wing of the bumper. There is plenty of room for the wire to plug in. I may end up moving it due to accessibility but I thought it was a pretty good spot since I didn't have wire to move it further away.

 

[jynx]

Well, I got a minute to upload the pics of the install.

First off, here is my spacer "kit"
2 - 3/4" x 1 1/2" x 8" steel bar spacers and 2" grade 8 bolts and washers. Going to pick up a couple longer bolts for the fairlead mount this week.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0247.jpg

The engine hoist made removal and moving the bumper much easier.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0248.jpg

I pulled the motor end off and greased it and then I pulled the gearbox end off and greased it up.

There was hardly any grease in the gearbox when I started. You can also see the "TMAX" stamp in the casting in the second picture.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0256.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0255.jpg

I didn't get any after pics, but trust me it was much better after I got done.

I pulled the cover off the solenoid pack and drilled new holes in it so that I could flip the cover over and then mounted the box inside the wing and ran the wires thru the hole in the main mount.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0259.jpg

Dropper the spacers plates in
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0260.jpg

And then mounted the winch in the frame.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0262.jpg

Not sure if my spacers are bigger, the winch housing was different or the bumper itself was made different but the clearance was great with no grinding. The reduction end looks like it would have dropped in about a 1/2" or more before contacting the diagonal brace, but the motor end only has about a 1/4" or so before it will hit the front plate of the bumper, so overall, it is perfect.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0263.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/mrtucker80/DSCN0264.jpg

I tried to clock the housing but there was one hole that was slightly different and wasn't tapped so I ended up leaving the lever in the stock location which put it in the back, which works out pretty good. One bolt forward would have been perfect but oh well.

I have a few more from today and the install but I will get them up later after I get them off the camera.

I still have to get the WARN fairlead ordered and figure out the switch problem and I should be good to go.

 

[greentruck]

Matthew,
Great! Lots of progress!

Your "third hand" is much better than my jerry-rigged wood platform on floor jack...

Yeah, you want to get that switch or whatever figured out. That could be dangerous, as you don't want to have to second guess what the control is going to do. Most likely, it does sound like a weak detent spring or something in the controller. Does it seem to want to spring back to center-off when you release it? Or does it seem sticky?

Interesting about the motor clearing the web reinforcement. Sounds like they may have made a production change and shortened it? My motor is 6.25" long (to back of drum flange) and 4.5" in diameter.

Now that I'm thinking about clocking, I think you take the gearbox end off to do that. Sorry, may have misled in saying you can do that with the motor end off? or??

 

[jynx]

Yeah the switch feels twitchy, I am definitely going to play with it.

On the clock, I pulled the gearbox off the main support and tried to rotate it. In the picture of the geared end you can see that at the bottom of the picture, there are two holes drilled, one is about 1/4" further out and holds a little locator on the engagement lever. At that location, the inner hole, that is in the main body, wasn't tapped so when I tried to install the bolt it wouldn't go in, so I just rolled it back to stock.

I will have to measure the motor for comparison.

 

[greentruck]

I found my manual and was surprised to see it said nuttin' about clocking the darn thing. I guess is figured it out somehow...
Sorry can't be of more assistance with that, but since I'm going to suggest calling Smittybilt anyway...

You should just call them about the control and have them send you a new one. They should know it's no good out of the box, because that's the only way stuff gets fixed is if it's something scary like a winch and AND someone tells them about it.

Plus I'm pretty sure they'll just send you a shiny new one...at least they should. I'd sure want a happy customer, if it was me and from what little I remember reading, Smittybilt does take care of things.

And you can ask 'em about clocking it, since you'll have them on the phone anyway.

On the other hand, so long as you can reach it, having it back there sorta cryptic like is maybe a good idea. There's always the idiot that has to play with such things and people that stupid usually don't mess with things they can't see.

 

[jynx]

Does anyone know the dimensions on the vertical fairlead bolts that go thru the rib into the WARN fairlead? Mine is going to be dropped off today and I was thinking of stopping by Fastenal to pick up the bolts, washers and nylock nuts on my way home. I seem to think I saw somewhere that they are 5/8" diameter, confirmation on that and the overall length would be great.

Also, I called Smittybuilt and they said to trouble shoot the solenoid and call them back and they would send me either a new switch or solenoid pack. Seems like a pretty straight forward and good customer service so far.

Thanks and I will keep you all updated.

 

[greentruck]

Matthew,
The vertical fairlead bolts are 5/8 x 6". Uses the acorn style nylock nuts. I didn't use any visible washers, the bolt head and acorn nut sit flush. There's the possibility of a washer between the top of the fairlead and bottom side of the reinforcing lip, because I can't see in there, but I'm pretty sure the fairlead just sat flush up against the bottom of the lip without any washers, spacers, etc. So all you need are two bolts and two acorn ny-locks to fit.

 

[Aloha Jen]

Super old thread here guys, but just wondering how yours are holding up. Just got a new Smittybuilt 12k xrc and am doing all the research before installing. This post has been helpful so far, so thanks @greentruck and @jynx. Was just curious how the winches were working out with the pm you did on them. Did you feel it has been helpful for it to last? And is there anything you would include or add to what you did on the install or addition pm? Thanks for any advice!

 

[greentruck]

All I can say is it's worked when I've needed it, which has been about three times since my install. And our truck is garaged when not in use, so this further reduces the moisture exposure that's the hidden malaise of most winches.

If you plan on using, cleaning, and servicing the winch regularly, then the extra care with the grease may not make much difference. But I'm a fix and forget sort with recovery gear nowadays. I lost my taste for getting stuck a couple of decades back, but stuff still happens, mostly to others that then need my help, so I like to be sure I can still deal with what the trail throws at you.

In a tropical climate, I'd think you'd still want the moisture-repellent effects of the upgraded grease. Things never really get dry, so best thing would be to limit moisture intrusion.

 

[Aloha Jen]

All I can say is it's worked when I've needed it, which has been about three times since my install. And our truck is garaged when not in use, so this further reduces the moisture exposure that's the hidden malaise of most winches.

If you plan on using, cleaning, and servicing the winch regularly, then the extra care with the grease may not make much difference. But I'm a fix and forget sort with recovery gear nowadays. I lost my taste for getting stuck a couple of decades back, but stuff still happens, mostly to others that then need my help, so I like to be sure I can still deal with what the trail throws at you.

In a tropical climate, I'd think you'd still want the moisture-repellent effects of the upgraded grease. Things never really get dry, so best thing would be to limit moisture intrusion.

That's good to know it's worked when you have needed it and you still feel confident you can rely on it. People always seem to bag on these Smittybuilt winches, calling them cheap 2 year at best throw away winches. So it is nice to hear yours is still reliable after 4-5 years. Mine will also see very little use, and will be garaged when not being driven. I plan on upgrading the grease in mine before installing. Thanks!

 

[greentruck]

I'm pretty sure the bad rep these winches receive is mostly due to two things. They are often someone's first winch and it's not immediately obvious to them how fast a planetary winch heats up due to the compact design and, especially the 12k versions, how much power is drawn when operating. It's absolutely important to pay very close attention to allow cool-down breaks when pulling. Even just a full minute of running can turn the motor into a toaster. Keep it up and they will fail, doesn't matter what the brand name is or how much you paid. Let them cool or you're a fool...

For the Chinese Tmax clones, since they all come from the same factory, more or less, I'm guessing the use the same grease as the XRC series -- and it's not a good one for the long term, but guess what? You'll need to buy another winch, so the factory may not care. I'll cite what I found and wrote of earlier:
Waterproofing a Winch

Here are some pics showing what I did in greasing my Smittybilt XRC12 before mounting it. I used what I hope is "good grease" in hopes of keeping corrosion at bay by using a grease that repels water better than the "factory" grease.

The OEM grease looks like a very conventional lithium base grease, which tends to attract moisture. This is not a good thing inside your winch.

Taking it apart, it's obvious that any standard planetary-geared winch will be subject to moisture infiltration where the drum rotates around the motoer and geared ends. There is not seal, although the parts fit closely together. The Smittybilt winch is a T-Max clone, FYI, as the castings display "T-Max" inside. I doubt that any planetary winch that is not specifically waterproofed in some way at the drum ends would be subject to similar infiltration.

I did not totally disassemble the winch to clean every bit of the OEM grease out. I did clean up the grease that is accessible in taking the winch apart to "clock" it for proper mounting. While it may seem intimidating to take apart a brand new, supposedly functioning winch before hooking it up for a test, doing this is completely OK re the manual. It describes howto do this (sort of) so [a review of the manual showed I was misremembering this being in the manual, but it's a very common thing at installation so...] you can't get into warranty trouble in doing this to your spanking new winch. Mine worked fine when it was finally hooked up.

The grease used is one that's been discussed as potentially better than OEM for this sort of application. It's Cat "Ultra 5Moly" Grease. It's available at your local Cat dealer. They may only carry one of the 3 NLGI grades available, depending on the climate where you are. In my case, it was the all-around middle of the pack NLGI Grade #1. The higher the number, the more resistant to heat, but also the thicker it is when cold. #1 is suitable for applications between -31 degrees F and 104 degrees F. Sounded OK, unless I get stuck winching in the desert.

I'll only note that the Cat grease isn't the only one that would be an improvement, just that it's specs are worthy of looking for if you do use a substitute. It's not expensive, just depends on how close your Cat dealer may be, and it is, how shall we say, well-tested in a manner that shows its suitable for this purpose.

And in rethinking what I wrote, if you can access the thicker NLGI grade, it may be worth getting, especially if you live where it's warm all the time. A winch heats up fast enough getting the thicker flowing shouldn't be too much of an issue and they get way hotter than 104 degrees, so...

And here's a link to my original XRC12 install on an 80 write-up:
Smittybilt XRC12 in 80 Series ARB

 

[jynx]

I'm in the same boat as @greentruck it's worked when I needed it to. I haven't tried it on a few months as it got relocated to a different 80 in the fleet and hasn't been wired back up yet, but I suspect it will be fine. Mine lives outside and I spray the cable down with wd40 a couple times a year.

The smittybuilt units get a bad wrap but in reality, they are probably made on the same line as the Warn VR series and just get different stickers and a higher price tag. I've already ranted about the way Warn prices there stuff so we won't go there.