Generators for home back-up (1 Viewer)

[sirenmoses]

School me.

Found a deal on a 1100 watt at another forum: I don't need to power up the entire house, but running an electric baseboard heater, and the well maybe once a day, would be nice if I'm not home when power goes off. Prevent pupsicles and frozen pipes...

 

[bigndn]

School me.

Found a deal on a 1100 watt at another forum: I don't need to power up the entire house, but running an electric baseboard heater, and the well maybe once a day, would be nice if I'm not home when power goes off. Prevent pupsicles and frozen pipes...

1100 watts is nothing. IIRC electric baseboard heaters are a big draw.

How much are they asking? I got a 3000W (3500 surge) at a garage sale for $100. I just bought a new, electric start 700W (8750W surge) Honeywell with a honda GX390 for $1000 at Costco.

EDIT: Also, lots of good info in this thread.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/workshop-h...5-home-standby-generator-recommendations.html

 

[john_eckels]

I saw a 10K standyby unit at Costco for around $2K which includes the transfer switch. It runs on natural gas and automatically turns on when the power is out. I think it was a Generac.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

I have been installing and servicing home standby generators in my mountains for the past four years. I do installs and repairs etc for high end vacations homes and the redwoods rental cabins in yosemite. You should look at getting at least a 4800 watt that is capable of running at 240 or 120 volt a/c output. 4800 watts at 240 volts is 20 amps of current capacity. At 120 it is 40 amps(prolly 2 20 amp circuits). In my experience as an electrician, most baseboard heaters that are not fairly young will be 240 volts. Bear in mind, even 4800 watts can be consumed very easily. I am not suggesting that you get some big fancy high dollar genset, but really research what you will be using in order to figure the best set up. Your well is almost surely 240 volts. It will use most of the 20 amps.
One thing that is often overlooked when one goes to tie a generator into their grid tied house, is a means of transferring your loads to the generator w/o back-feeding the utility line, possibly killing a lineman. You do not have to have a big auto transfer switch unless you WANT automatic operation of your system. (you will also need a generator that is capable of automatically starting and running- now you're into a "standby unit") If you want to use your home depot gasoline 5.5kw generator as a means of manual back-up, then a simple mechanical interlock can be added to your exsisting electrical meter/sub panel(s). If you don't know what's going on in their-CALL AN ELECTRICIAN.
In the event that the power goes out around my pad, I have a 9.6 kw gas/propane coleman generator, that runs on propane right now. It does not ever come out and get turned on unless we're looking at an all day event. Candles and stories are cool, sometimes. No water stinks all the time. I have a "flanged inlet" that I plug the gen cord into. It is like a recessed male plug. The inlet connects to a breaker in the sub panel right next to the main breaker. There is a mechanical toggle that bridges between the main and generator breakers. It is bent so that only ONE of the two breakers can be "on". In an outage, I shut the main off, THEN turn on the generator, and then start the generator. This prevents the voltage from your generator going back through you utility wires, thru the transformer on the pole, and turning into 12500 or BIGGER voltage, charging the line that you utility company is hopefully fixing. I am sorry if this was more than you wanted to read!

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Worked on most brands currently available, there are no brands impervious to the occational . I've installed Big Cats (yes, at houses-V-10 365amps at 208 volt three phase) Briggs, all kinds of Generacs (>hundred), and kohlers. The Big cat purrs, but I have repaired things on smaller cats, The briggs does alright- about the same as the kohler (still w/i two years tho, jury is out), I have repaired brand new generacs- same unit two or three times sometimes. I have seen some catastrophic failures. I know of MANY that are/have always been fine. I have one w/ a burnt rotor whoes motor still hums-at 3200 hours. I consider the generac to be suitable for a guy who can work on MODERN cars (electronics and mechanics), otherwise you'll have to find someone to work on it. There is nothing as aggrivating (Imguessing)as spending 2 plus gees and not have lights when your power goes out. The kohler is a well set up unit. IMO.

 

[Corbet]

LAMBCRUSHER

I'm interested in installing a back up system as well. I need to research how much power I need, but here is the basic list of things that need to run without grid power

Well pump, 280' below grade.
Cistern pump to get water into house
Hot water baseboard heating system (small pump and enough to ignite boiler)
Fridge/freezers, one in house and garage.

Knowing what you do about power consumption I'm guessing you could make an educated guess on my power needs. I could also manually kill the well pump as my cistern holds 1500 gallons and that should last me the duration of most power outages.

I could run on propane, gasoline, or battery back up?

Thoughts?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

MOST prepackaged stand by systems come plumbed for natty gas, and can be re jetted for LPG. Off the top of my head, the average 10kw unit is going to consume about 1-11/2 gallons of propane an hour at 50% load. This is roughly the output you'll be operating at most of the time. I have not seen any automagical home standbys that operate on gasoline, and unless you've got a couple of banks of batteries(big 6volts in series to make 48-96 vdc), then battery back up is not really a solution. You'd prolly want to use LPG. I have seen 10kws run on 10 gallon LPG bottles.
In order to properly size out your system, I will have you do some research around your place and get some 411 back to me.
First, does your cistern remain full all the time, or is there a chance that power could go out and your cistern be only half full?
I'd imagine you have a sub panel @ your well/cistern. What are the sizes and number of poles on the breakers that feed your:1.pump saver/pump; and 2, your booster pump?
if you have wattage consumption of these devices, I could give you a more accurate guesstimate.
Regarding the baseboards, if they are hydronic, you have to run a pump and the ignitor/ blower on the boiler. Again, i would like breaker sizing or watt consumption. My guess would be somewheres in the neighborhood of 3-6 amps @ 120v for the boiler and pump.
Your fridge and freezer i would assign no less than 1200 watts for each one- or a 15 amp circuit for each.
A ball park guess w/o the info from you in the field would be that you're going to need at least 30 amps @ 240 volts, or a minimum of a 7.2KW generator, IMO.
Being that you want to send power from this genset to the house, garage, and well stand, it would prolly be best to set the unit and its associated $witchgear right next to the main service. Depending on how your distribution is set up will determine exactly what will need to be added/deleted and/or bypassed.
Some pics of your main service, the breakers inside of it, your well stand panels, and you hydronic set up as well as any other sub panels will make laying out your modified distribution easier.

 

[Rattler]

The Home Depots around here had Husky generators rated at 3650 (or right around there) for a clearance of $299. Needless to say, they were gone in a couple days from all stores. They had Robin/Subaru engines. The local store here had 18 of them and they were gone in a day.

Of course I found out the day after . . . . . .

 

[Weedhopper]

You are lucky. When one of those HD units breaks, and it will, it is a PITA to get fixed. One major electrical/generator repair shop here has a backlog of those things waiting for warranty repair and they "get to them when we get to them".

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

They really are just little motors w/great big alternators. If you can work on your cruiser, you can fix your genset. For future reference, give me a buzz when you've got a problem and maybe I can walk you thru it. Open offer to any one on mud.

 

[IH8Wood]

I fantasize about buying a Lister. If you've run out of obsessions, read about them here and here

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Far from out of obsessions- Next is the Browns Gas Generator! Remember Bob Boyce!

 

[Weedhopper]

Listers are

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

So what gen would someone suggest in the 5000 + range?

 

[alia176]

School me.

Found a deal on a 1100 watt at another forum: I don't need to power up the entire house, but running an electric baseboard heater, and the well maybe once a day, would be nice if I'm not home when power goes off. Prevent pupsicles and frozen pipes...

Carol,

I have a Honda 6.5kw 240/120vac standby generator that has been converted to run on Propane or petrol. I thought your cabin had a wood stove? If not, then perhaps use a Kerosene heater as a backup heat maybe an idea. I wouldn't use a generator to run the baseboard heater from a practical standpoint. However, you should have a generator to run the well pump, which is usually run on 220vac. That's really the main reason why I have this unit, is to run the well pump for extended power outages and the house is out of water. This unit is a 4stroke engine with a small radiator and a battery for starting.

I also have a Honda EU2000 120vac generator that I usually use to run part of the house during short power outages. I turn off my main 200a breaker from the grid, plug into a standard outlet and back feed the panel to provide power to selected rooms and circuits.

Both genies are super quiet and is a dream to operate. The EU2000 can be connected to another EU2000 for producing 220vac if needed. It's portable and I've used it for camping as well. Both of my genies come up on CL from time to time. I think you want something that's quiet, has a fuel economy mode so that the engine rpm varies with load. It sucks to listen to a genie that's running WOT all the time even if there is no load. We have one of those at work that is used for welding and it sucks. You lose your hearing after about half hour!

Hit me off line if you want to discuss further.

 

[craptabulous]

I fantasize about buying a Lister. If you've run out of obsessions, read about them here and here

i have two 10 kw Lister diesels . even at -25 they start with just a wiff of ether . well the neighbors freeze during a power outage i sit in my hot tub while listening to the purr of a Lister nestled into my garage .

they are tough little sets , but truthfully they are not little , each one probably weighs 1500 + lbs .

truthfully the best bang for your buck is to on to a online auction and buy a light plant with a kubota engine . they go forever , you could pick one up with low hours for a couple grand easily . it will outperform those puny little honda's five to one .

look for a genset with a stamford alternator on it , .8 power factor preferred .

 

[Junk]

Found this while searching for generators. Yet another storm on the way and I still haven't picked up a generator. Looking for something portable and I would have an electrician hook up a feed so I could hopefully just plug it in if need to. Looking to power furnace blower (have nat gas for furnace and hw heater), tv, pc, oven (gas but has electronics) and maybe a few lights.

Think like 7.5K about right? Any recommendation on brands? Thx

 

[Joe_E]

I bought a Miller Bobcat 250 a few years ago.
You can weld all day long, and have a 10,000 watt generator when the power goes out. I had a relative wire in a subpanel and make up a big jumper that connects the bobcat to a special outlet near the garage.

I'm right in ground zero on this one man. I'm hoping being i'm wired for gen power the power won't go out.
Kinda like when i bought my snowblower last year it wound up never snowing.

 

[Cattledog]

Carol,

I also have a Honda EU2000 120vac generator that I usually use to run part of the house during short power outages. I turn off my main 200a breaker from the grid, plug into a standard outlet and back feed the panel to provide power to selected rooms and circuits.

Unless you can isolate the neutral at your 200 amp breaker you still run a risk of back feeding the main line to the street. Not a good idea for the lineman or you. I have never seen a breaker that isolates both hot and neutral. Maybe yours does?

I was doing the same thing for a couple of years. I asked this question to the master sparky where I work. He explained the issue with the back feeding the neutral line. His suggestion was to install regular plugs inline to what I wanted powered. I only run the sump, furnace, freezer, refrigerator and a couple of lights with my 2500W Honda. It is cheaper and faster than installing a transfer switch and safe for the lineman on the street.

 

[john_eckels]

I saw this video with a mechanism that prevents the generator backfeed and the main from being closed at the same time. It appears that just the 'Hot' side is getting switched. Also, don't most transfer switches just switch the Hot side? Edit, the main breaker in the video is rather large and looks like it has 3 poles and is possible it disconnects the neutral.


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