Front axle service requirements

[cruiserdan]

Riley,

Um,....WOW

Maybe ya better just pay the guy. Sounds like yer gonna get this no matter what. :

I thought you'd be safe 'cuz I don't think that there is enough room in the knuckle for a birf and an oil filter wrench.

 

[BMT]

Hey...is it normal for the birf's to click in low w/ center diff locked and a hard turn?

 

[cruiserdan]

[quote author=BMT link=board=2;threadid=4778;start=msg36441#msg36441 date=1062199433]
Hey...is it normal for the birf's to click in low w/ center diff locked and a hard turn?
[/quote]

Nope,
Get yer tools out.....All you should get is a "bind"

Didn't you and -H- do that job already?

BTW, if that's the only time you can get it to happen, I doubt that you'll blow up.

 

[Riley]

I've been reading up on this service and starting to think it doesn't look too bad.

However it does look a little more complicated to replace the knuckle bearings.

True?

Do I really need to tie-rod end puller to do this?

Also the special tool to install the axle oil seal looks like a pain to come up with. Any ideas?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Riley,

A comment on the "note to Tech" approach. If said tech is a dedicated craftsman to his trade, he will understand you're an involved owner rather than a check writer and be more than happy to oblige you. If he's in the other 98%, he'll consider you, your requests, and your letter an annoyance and this could play out in the work he'll do. Either everything will be out of spec and need replacing (!) so he doesn't have to ever hear from you again because he knows you're a picky owner that could make his life miserable, or he'll do his usual level of work and assure you everything was fine. What's important for you to know is the note will not change the behavior of the dedicated craftsman one bit. Same goes for the 98 percent guy, but he might cost you some serious bucks - plus he won't know what he's doing even with the note.

Here's an example of what the 98% could do. He looks at your birf cage and sees discoloration on the inside where the balls run. Boom - it's got signs of heat damage and needs replacing (add $350 to your bill, please). Here's what the dedicated guy sees. Hmm, that's normal Toyota heat treating to harden the area where the balls run - everything looks great!

The moral of the story? Spend your time finding a knowledgeable 80 guy rather than writing a good note. Best of all, do this simple job yourself. It is not difficult at all - just lots of big heavy parts and the messiest job you'll ever do the rest of your life. It will take you a weekend to do if you're at it 6 - 8 hours a day. Here in the US, this is a $1200 job if nothing is wrong or needed, so you better recheck their pricing as they may be pricing a "mini" repack on you or not telling you the truth. I say this because you're using a $1000CDN price and that sounds very low.

IdahoDoug

 

[Riley]

Thanks Doug - very good points made. Since I started this thread I've pretty much decided to this job myself. I was never quote $1000, that was just my estimate. But labor rate is pretty much the same on either side of the border.

It's getting harder and harder to part with a grand when I could do this myself and I'm thinking about how great it's going to be to have all these tools going forward.

The tie-rod end puller has got me and cracking nuts ect.... I read the other thread on drifting steering and man those tie-rod end sound like a pain.

When checking the all the tech pages on the front axle job most guys never pull the tie-rod ends.

Any advice on that?

 

[Beowulf]

Riley,

You do not need to remove the tie rods ends, therefore you don't need the tie rod puller.

-B-

 

[IdahoDoug]

I agree with not pulling the tie rods. I did not, but I did buy a few shims in case I could feel any binding or slack. The 80 has shims only on the top or bottom (forgot). But I figured to reuse the shims it came with, assuming that the knuckle bearings/races were made precisely enough that everything would be lined up correctly. I also felt for binding in the knuckle bearings, or slack (used a lever to see if I could detect any movement in the knuckle after assembly. All seemed well. This approach REQUIRES that you replace both the bearings and the races, I feel. The races were a piece of cake - the little cutouts were larger and easier to use to pound them out than on other vehicles I've worked on.

Yeah, the tie rod part was the only step I was not fired up on. Like others before me, I chose not to disconnect them and got good results.

Double bonus on doing this yourself: Because you're going to spend only $300 or so, you can go hog wild on trying to find the most exotic synthetic greases on the planet to use for reassembly and then brag about it here. We're especially impressed with bright colored stuff - I used bright red synth in the wheel bearings and purple in the birf, for instance. I think yellow and green are still virgin territory!! Heh. Seriously, using the best quality grease vs the shop crap they'll use is a durability improvement beyond saving the money.

IdahoDoug

PS - just got back from Nelson, BC this evening. Got 160 kilometers of tasty road riding in on the road bike up there, but was bummed to find the forests closed to mountain biking.

 

[Riley]

Hey Doug and others - how important is it to remove the axle from the birfield when cleaning/inspecting. From my reading it looks a lot eaier to leave the bir connected and just clean in place. I'm not sure I can tell if it' warn (having never done this before).

Doug - glad you stayed out of the forests this weekend, way too dry. My buddies place in Nakusp almost burned down last week.

 

[Beowulf]

Riley,

I did the birfields on mine a little over a year ago (approx 100k miles) and did not seperate the birfields. Obviously, I didn't swap sides either. Cleaning is more difficult with the birf attached to the axle and you definitely can NOT get it as clean as you would with them apart. However, you can do a decent job with a 5 gallon bucket of solvent (approx 1/4 full)

The next time mine are ready for service (will be approx 160k miles) I will seperate, do a thorough cleaning, and swap sides.

Use Jim's birfield repack as a guide and you won't go wrong.

-B-

 

[IdahoDoug]

"Doug - glad you stayed out of the forests this weekend, way too dry. My buddies place in Nakusp almost burned down last week."

What REALLY kept me out of the forests were the plentiful signs at trail head explaining the $6000 fine and up to 6mos in jail for leaving any roadway.

On the birf, I did not take mine apart either. I found a tub deep enough I could submerge the birf and stub axle in degreaser and bought a couple stiff long brushes to clean it thoroughly. I did mine around 90k and on the next repack I will open the birf and replace the clips that hold them together to have a closer look. If yours are not even clicking yet, then I say there's no point in cracking the birfs open. But look it over very closely for cracks and such. We'll be able to guide you as to what's normal from an appearance standpoint.

One other consideration for you is that the brass bushing that is inside the spindle can now be replaced with a genuine roller bearing that is much more effective at locating the axle. If memory serves, this is standard on diesels. It is my personal belief that axle movement within this bushing shortens axle seal life significantly. Someone may have info on this, but the part will not be cheap and I've heard getting the old bushing out is tough. Christo may know more. I'm hoping some will have done this by the time I repack again. I have a faint thump in the front end over certain frequencies of bumps that I'm convinced is the axle slapping around in the bushing. Rarely happens, but my ear is now tuned to hearing it after 10 years of driving it - it has always been there.

 

[Big_Moose]

Riley

Glad you are going to tackle this front axle rebuild yourself

Since the best method is to disassemble the birfield [just disassembled 3 FJ-Birfields today to send to your neighborhood for Smurfing!]. Another good method to clean them is to use brake cleaner, spraying the birfield joint while its bent to the side / angle to remove most of the grease. Make sure you complete the final rinse in fresh / clean solvent.

After you have the birfiled clean, you can inspect for wear / fatique. Inspect the bell of the birfield for "small vertical" cracks; rust / rough spots on the 6 balls; inner spider race for twisted splines; etc. For a final inspection, place the axle on a bench / table, with the birfield end hanging off the table. holding both the axle and the birfield end, moving the axle in / out of the birfield - there shouldn't be a lot of movement. Of course its going to move somewhat, but excess play is quite noticeable / sign of worn - noise / clicking birfield.

Repack with appropriate grease [synthetic moly being the best], make sure you grease the birfield, with the birfield joint turned / angled to get a small resevior of grease below the balls / bottom of the cup.

Make sure you also fill the knuckle cavity with grease ~ 2/3rds full.

Joe

 

[cruiserdan]

A note about the tie rods:

It is impossible to properly check/set knuckle bearing pre-load with the tie rods attached to the steering arms (if you care).

Doug,
the bearing you speak of is part of a new part number spindle. The spindle must be replaced to get the bearing.

D-

 

[nakman]

I didn't take them apart either, just spray them with brake cleaner and the old grease will blast away. Also, a piece of 1½" pvc works great as an inner axle seal install tool.

 

[semlin]

Riley, I have a modest and somewhat personally scarey proposal. If you supply the driveway/garage, I'll help you with yours if you'll help me with mine . I have never been happy with the job I got done earlier this year and I would like to do it properly and know it's right, plus replace all the bearings as should have happened the first time. With two of us we may even be able to get them done in a single long day each and so if we do one per weekend we can both avoid a divorce by not spending a whole weekend mucking around. Plus we'll definitely be faster the second time through.

Plus, we can both send that money to OME where it belongs

Any estimates out there on how fast two people can do this job?

 

[Shortbus]

Hey Riley....

I'm a NooB, so my advice has to be taken with a few grains of salt.
But, if you're not gonna try the DIY route, here's my 2 cents,

I wrote service for a few years, and am purchasing a 93 LC this afternoon. This will be my 71st car, so I've played this game for a while. When I bought an Audi which was going to need some of the service done at the dealer, I made sure to befriend the service writer at the dealership and find out who his #1 tech was. After that, I always made sure that he was the ONLY tech to touch the car. I'm probably about twice as anal as you are..... seems hard to believe huh?

The other thing that has worked marvelously over the year is a half rack of good beer on the passenger seat. Tech's love beer! At least all mine did, and service writers like the stuff too. If you can manage in a "non threatening" way to meet your tech, you'll be miles ahead. Once he's put a face on the service ticket, he'll be much more apt to take the extra care on the vehicle that you want.

PS... Not only cops like donuts in the morning.

Best of luck.

 

[Riley]

Yea I've actually already meet the #1 guy. Had him do my headlight mod and worked with him on it. Also have friends in the parts dept except that I seem to using Dan more than them lately.

I'm going to end up doing this myself. Doesn't look too bad know that I re-read the game plan everynight before kicking back.

Thanks for the 2 bits. I still might need it.

 

[Shortbus]

Better yet...... You can buy all the beer for yourself!!! Just wait till the job is done before drinking it, of course.

 

[cruiserdan]

Brad,

If I waited that long I'd be PARCHED :

 

[IdahoDoug]

Dan,

Any idea what the bearing style spindles go for, vs a normal spindle? I know neither will be cheap, but.....

IdahoDoug