Ford V8, 351, 390, or 460?

[gnx7]

IMO to not do an engine conversion with EFI is plain silly. It will pay for itself. Plus they make more torque typically than carb'd engines which you will need.

I swap EFI engines into RX-7's as a hobby.

The first time around I bought a reworked engine harness that was labeled and completely new for $800. Helen Keller could've installed it.... it was that easy. Net result: Near Stock Buick GN engine (3.8i turbo/intercooled) ran mid 11's and got low 20mpg highway without even locking up the torque convertor and super deep 4:10 gears (TH200-4R). Another guy with similar conversion put in a C4 Vette rear with 2:73 gears and he was getting low 30mpg highway... oh yeah... his car ran low 10's@135mph also.

Another conversion I did was an LS1/T56 into an RX-7. I reworked the stock harness with a friend in about 1.5 hrs. Just about anyone that owns a dyno can reprogram them. There are even mailorder tunes for $200. There are literally about 10 wires that need to be connected to the transplant car. ie starter, switched power, tach, speedo, a/c, fuel pressure relay, efan relay etc. It is not hard at all. Result for mine with ported heads/cam/headers (2800lbs): 440rwhp/400rwtq and mid 20mpg and 20K miles of total reliable driving. (that is 505hp/460tq) I had to change oil/filters and that was it!

If you make a list of what this conversion will cost you... a 6.0 GM/4L80E takeout with adapter plate for an FJ60 transfercase will be the cheapest in the long run if you truly plan to keep the truck for a long time. Otherwise it will be a gas hog that breaks parts. Your truck is EFI already... why step backwards in technology?

I used to be a Mustang fanatic (EFI 5.0). After doing some math and the desired power I wanted.... just about any LSx engine would spank it up and down the street. Ford stuff is pricey and can be a PITA to figure out when doing an engine conversion in relation to the GM stuff. Stock LS1 heads flow nearly 260cfm.... With forced induction the stock heads can support 600rwhp.

Different strokes for different folks.... Do the math before beginning any project as it can eat you out of house and home. If you can't do 90% of the transplant yourself or aren't willing to learn... plan on it costing a bundle.

 

[Mace]

It is pretty difficult to plug an injector outright when in the field. Even if one is partially plugged, the vehicle will still run ok, unlike a clogged carb jet.

5mpg, that is about what he will get with a carbed 351c, 390, or 460.

And a plugged jet is much easier fix than a bad injector or O2 sensor or, or or or or or...

Properly tuned there is no reason a 351 should get 5 mpg. Heck, ol tan (460/c6/4wd 1 ton) got 7 or 8 pretty much everywhere.. And that was a Crew cab 1 ton long bed 4wd truck...

351W bored and stroked to 426 and carbed even gets 14 in a Early bronco..

Windsor parts are reasonably cheap and plentiful. Plus, they tend to be easier to cool than a Chevy motor for some reason.

Honestly, a 351 out of a 90 something ford truck would be a great motor. And fairly plug N play..

 

[cruzizzle]

Another guy with similar conversion put in a C4 Vette rear with 2:73 gears and he was getting low 30mpg highway... oh yeah... his car ran low 10's@135mph also.

Please tell me this is:

1. A typo.
2. 30 lbs boost with a PT88, an unstreetable converter, and a standalone EFI.
3. A 1700 lb car.
4. Shenanigans

 

[gnx7]

3,000lb '87 RX-7
T-70 turbo
10" stall convertor (Lockup style)
Transbrake (makes convertor stall speed higher)
It was high 10's@126mph...
TH200-4R
actually 2.59 gears from a C4 Dana 36 Vette (8" ring gear)
not sure if you can see the pics... but text should be there:
Look at the 1st page and red where it says 9/12/03-
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/b...stalling-corvette-rear-into-mazda-rx-7-a.html

Apparantly he wanted a newer body style RX-7... he sold the shell to another guy... he installed his 4.1i/TH400 Buick turbo setup into it... and ran 10.0's@137mph.... Now it has a 2JZ with TH400. Should run 9's easily at some big mph.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-hybrid-cars/64556-what-i-have-been-working.html

His pal with a lime green 240Z with 2JZ/TH400 and 280Z Turbo rear end: it eventually ran some 8.90's@154mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3qOWw2s-QM

 

[cruzizzle]

That's a little more like it. That 9 mph trap speed equates to approximately 95 horsepower at that weight.

 

[cc93cruiser]

Don't forget about the good old 5.0 engine...Bore it and stroke it out and it will put out way more than enough power in a small block conf. Plus the aftermarket parts for these engines is up there with the 350..

 

[alkaline747trio]

GM this, GM that...doesn't matter, I'm sticking with the 3FE or I'm going Ford V8.

390 has been ruled out, but as this is the most easily grabbed engine for me, what are my options with it?

460, big and ballsy, but un-necessary weight and the same power can be had from a built 351.

Lower weight, lots of options, plenty of power, but not quite as easy to get (already have it, but it gets used OFTEN for firewood, mobile home axles, tires, whatever).

I have beginner's fab skills, so about the most I am going to be able to make is possibly motor mounts (probably just weld factory Ford ones on) and radiator brackets.

Ford tranny and t-case VS factory FJ80. Rebuilt A440 w/ extreme valve body and Orion or lower gear-set and adapter, $3-5k. Ford, rebuilt and VB work, $3k??? + custom cross member, shifter linkages and whatnot and driveshafts. It looks like staying Toyota might be best. How does the A440 react without the kickdown cable attached?

 

[IronYuppy]

If you're going to go Ford V8 (and can't be talked out of it). Why not look at a 302 stroked to 347? It's basically a 351 but weighs less, and has more balls. Plus all the ancillieries are a dime a dozen, and maintainence is a snap. And since there are so many 302s out there, you can get all kinds of bling for it to pimp out your engine bay.

If I were going to build one from scratch, I'd find a decent Mexican 302 and stroke it out to 347 with an all-forged rotating assembly. Bulletproof.

 

[SR.GRINGO]

what makes the Mexican 302 better?

 

[alkaline747trio]

Iron, the 302 stroked wont have as much power as a punched and stroked 351W, or the power will be way higher up in the RPM range. Loads of power is great, but if I wont ever be revving high enough to use it, then it's just a waste of money to me.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Just checked over the Marks4wd site and the adapter will only work with the 351, not the big blocks. So it's 351 and beefed up Factory stuff, or big block and Ford stuff.

 

[Martin White]

I know you don't want to think about diesel, but at least if you put one in, your truck will have definite resale value for all your efforts. I don't think 5 mpg is an underestimate for what you have planned with a gas engine. Several of my acquaintances have run either a 351, 390 or 460 powered vehicle in the past. These are INCREDIBLY thirsty engines. Just food for thought. If you are really going to go with one of these gas engines, you better make room for a serious amount of extra fuel. By the way, there are diesels available for fairly low cost. They are simple, reliable and durable, and really excellent in heavy duty 4x4 application.

 

[IronYuppy]

Iron, the 302 stroked wont have as much power as a punched and stroked 351W, or the power will be way higher up in the RPM range. Loads of power is great, but if I wont ever be revving high enough to use it, then it's just a waste of money to me.

Ah, I didn't know you were going to be modding the 351. Sound like your mind is made up. I'd get a second job, though; the 351 is a thirsty Betty.

 

[vbcrush]

351C

 

[ginericLC]

"This is my project, if it takes 5 years and $10k more than I am expecting, then oh well. I've got a Samurai in mind to tide me over if need be. This 80 is going to be my expedition, hard (not extreme) rock-crawling, camping, beaching, mudding, whatever vehicle. I'm not setting myself a dead-line to start or even finish this, I just need to get a plan and a list and thoughts and ideas."

I can tell you right now you don't want portals on an 80 that you plan on driving on expeditions at any lengths. Going slow is going to be annoying. And being able to stop at speed is going to cost you.

I'm not anti Ford motor. And I'm definitely not anti Ford EFI. But I think it is silly to put a carbed motor in an 80. Especially since you say you are in college. You don't know where you are going to end up for a job who knows if you will have smog or not. It sure would suck to put all this effort in to have a rig built that will be a real PITA to sell. Ford is definitely going to be more money than a Chevy. I think you are still underestimating the cost of conversion.

The suspension ideas you have might be great for an off road rig but I'm not sure I'd want to daily drive or even drive either of your choices on the highway for extended periods of time.

For trannies, I of course would be doing an EFI motor I'd go with the E04D. It is a good tranny and you can get away with the length issue in a wagon. Transfer case??? Good question. Maybe a 203 stacked to a 60 series split case? Maybe you don't need double transfer cases with the gears in your portals?

Please don't take offense to this but you are young. You are taking on a lot of project for a college student. I know I couldn't have done a project like this in college due to time and an even great constraint was money. But there are folks who have different hurdles in life, maybe your situation is different than mine?

I really don't think you really want advice. I think you've tossed out a wild idea and you are going to do what you think is best no matter what anyone on this forum tells you.

By the way I've been there and done that. I did a 350 TBI conversion on my 60. I had a 302 powered 40. And right now I'm working on this 351W EFI into an early Bronco. 10,000 and 5 years doesn't sound like enough money for the project you our laying out. Go back and read my first post. I think you will find if you read it again and sit down with your calculator this might be more of a project than you want to take on.

 

[Mace]

Why do you guys think a 315W is that much of a gas hog??

351 C is a bad idea IMHO

 

[cruzizzle]

390 has been ruled out, but as this is the most easily grabbed engine for me, what are my options with it?

Do you have a favorite fishing spot?

 

[cruzizzle]

.........................

 

[JJS]

I find it funny that 390 made this list. Talk about old technology...and not a good candidate. It was a great motor (in a Galaxy 500 or F-250). If you're gonna go Ford, go built 302. It's the SBC of the Ford world. The 351W ain't half bad, either.

How about a 4.6 modular engine? You can wind the hell out of one.

 

[alkaline747trio]

I want something simple, and I want something that I can easily get for almost nothing. The 351W would be free, the 460 would be less than $500, the 390s either free or $200. The 351 is in great shape, rebuilt by my very trusted mechanic 7 years and less than 10k miles ago. The 460 is a toss-up, runs and recently rebuilt but who knows how well. The 390s are either recently rebuilt by a good mechanic or backyard rebuilt. Since all of these motors are cheap (and those prices include tranny and t-case where applicable) and all carb'd there isn't a whole lot to do to them.

I'm still deciding on this whole thing, I'm either going all out and getting this swap done right (not really thinking about the cost, if I don't have the money, then it can sit till I do) or I'm just gonna stay Toy and drop a 2F block under it.

The Volvo axles might throw me above 10k, but I dont expect by much. I'll be doing almost, if not all the work here. So there wont be much labor unless it is machine work or things I am just not capable of. I have decided that I do want portals, and I'll be doing a 3-link with coil-overs in the front, eventually. I don't mind going slow, if I can't drive over 70mph at 3k rpms, then oh well. I don't see how either of my suspension choices will be ill handling on the road, as a disconnect able sway-bar will be used.

It's looking like the V8 swap is a little over my head to start now, but in about 2-3 years I'll be ready to tackle it, and will probably have the suspension and axle part completed by then. I think I'm gonna start collecting parts and plan on 351W and A440, maybe carb'd maybe not. I've got a while. But I know it's gonna take me a while to piece things together with my budget, so I need to start now.