Engine not starting (1 Viewer)

T3C

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Hey, all! Little background on my rig--1979 Land Cruiser 2F engine with Weber carbs. The body is very rusted out, but the frame is solid. Primarily used for quick trips in my neighborhood as well as off-roading on weekends. So, it's usually driven about once or twice every week.

Last week, I went to move it out of the driveway and it just would not fire up. I had just driven it the day or so prior without a problem. Popping the hood I immediately recognized that there was a fair amount of sludge in a fuel filter (it is located just upstream from the carb). I replaced it with a new one, but still couldn't get the engine to start. I then cleared out all the fuel lines with pressurized air (even opened the gas cap to see a swig of fuel fly out from the filling line). Removed the fuel pump to clean it out, put it back on, reattached all the lines, but the engine still wouldn't start. I detached one of the lines just downstream from the pump, turned the key, but didn't observe any fuel pumping out of the line, which I thought was odd as the pump seemed to generate good pressure when I pressed on the actuator with my hand while it was off the engine. I then put a little bit of fuel directly down the throat of the carb, but that did not result in the engine firing either.

Next, I turned my attention to the spark plugs. I removed them all to clean and inspect them, put them back in, and attached an in-line spark tester to the plugs. Each spark plug indicated that it was firing. However, the engine still would not start.

Finally, I sought out the major ground lines. I found two: one from the starter and another from the alternator. I cleaned up those connections with a wire brush, but still could not get the engine to fire. I also cleaned both battery terminals without any luck.

I am going to get a compression tool from AutoZone, but can anyone help me determine other things that I might be missing? Any help is appreciated!

IMG_0845.jpg
 

mattcamp

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I would have someone spray some starting fluid in the carb as you crank the engine. If you get it to fire, it's fuel delivery. Sometimes pouring fuel into the carb doesn't work the best for checking it.
 

Dizzy

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How old is the Weber? How old is the gas? I bet that your Weber's inlet fuel filter needs cleaning too.

And, welcome to Mud.
 

T3C

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Took the advice of spraying carb starting fluid. Engine fired right up--albeit angrily (i.e. backfired a couple times)--and then cut out. I also removed and cleaned the inlet gas filter of the Weber carb. However, this didn't seem to have an effect. Does this mean I need to grab a new fuel pump? Here is a picture of my current pump. Looks like the Napa up the street from me has a similar one in stock (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/DFPMF0001). Is there a better one I should get, or will this suffice?

With regards to the age of the Weber, it is at least a few years old, but I couldn't tell you the precise age without contact the PO. Age of the gas should be a non-issue. I filled the tank last month. I did clean the Weber's gas inlet. It was pretty gunky. Can I send pressurized air down the gas inlet to blow out any debris from the jets? I don't want to damage any internals.

62380514911__DBF13EA5-FB1B-42AB-AFF4-58A739B5865B.jpg

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flee

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Make sure the gas flows freely from the gas tank. Now is a good time to add a quality filter before the fuel pump.
Just remove the hose from the carb and crank the engine. If no gas appears then get an OEM fuel pump. Good ones last.
While we're on the subject, Weber says to limit fuel pressure to 4 psi or below. (I have a Weber carb, too, and love it.)
My OEM fuel pump puts out 6-8 psi so I added a fuel pressure regulator before the carb.
 
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T3C

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Make sure the gas flows freely from the gas tank. Now is a good time to add a quality filter before the fuel pump.
Just remove the hose from the carb and crank the engine. If no gas appears then get an OEM fuel pump. Good ones last.
While we're on the subject, Weber says to limit fuel pressure to 4 psi or below. (I have a Weber carb, too, and love it.)
My OEM fuel pump puts out 6-8 psi so I added a fuel pressure regulator before the carb.

If I disconnect the inflow line to the pump, should fuel just pour out freely? Also, recommendation for a good filter before the fuel pump?

If I am still not getting fuel out of the new pump then I would imagine that means there is a blockage before the fuel pump, yea? What is the process for clearing that line? Do I have to drop the tank or can I get away with some pressurized air?
 

Dizzy

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I'd take that Weber apart as soon as you can get your hands on a reputable rebuild kit, it looks dirty. However, try cleaning out the fuel lines to the tank, first. I'd work with the rubber lines, have a pinch clamps handy, and blow air thru them with the gas cap removed. If you have to drain the tank, they sell gas filters integrated with a funnel at the corner auto store. I wouldn't put any compressed air on the inlet of the Weber, as the needle valve and float is only supposed to at 3lbs of gas pressure

I know nothing about gas sludge. But, fuel should draw from the tank with just gravity. However, you might connect the fuel filter to a fuel hose that goes straight from a container, just to see if the carb is in good shape.
 

Dizzy

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If running a Weber, do an electric fuel pump. Yes, it probably means wiring it in a sketchy fashion (OEM configurated pumps have an oil pressure cut-off valve in case of an accident), and you will probably need to install a relay switch. However, an electric pump is like $40, or $80 at Cruiser Corps, and available anywhere, instead of an OEM pump that is four or five times that. Also, unlike the mechanical pump, it won't leak into the crankcase, and it is steady pressure for the Weber. You will need to fabricate a block-off plate for the cam, however.
 

T3C

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try cleaning out the fuel lines to the tank, first. I'd work with the rubber lines, have a pinch clamps handy, and blow air thru them with the gas cap removed. If you have to drain the tank, they sell gas filters integrated with a funnel...

fuel should draw from the tank with just gravity. However, you might connect the fuel filter to a fuel hose that goes straight from a container, just to see if the carb is in good shape.

The other day when I initially removed the fuel pump I pinched off the inflow line, opened the gas cap, released the clamp and then blew pressurized air down the inflow line straight to the gas tank. A healthy swig of fuel jumped out of the filler neck. Might drain the tank first before doing that again, though. Installing a fuel filter in the inflow line also sounds like a smart idea.

The OE mechanical pump at Napa is priced at $30. I'm inclined to go this route: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/DFPMF0001.
 

Dizzy

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I thought that they were made by Kyosan?
 

T3C

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I thought that they were made by Kyosan?

I posted a picture of my current fuel pump above. It only has two inlets—one for inflow and the other for outflow—just like the OE pump at Napa. I notice that the Kyosan pumps have three inlets. If I install a Kyosan pump, what do I do with that third inlet? Is it just a vent line?
 
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When I click on the link for the pump you're looking at:
1602255757987.png

It find the 1975 from my history apparently, and I doubt there's much difference in the pumps.

Wix 33002 filter can be used pre pump. 5/16 hose, clear filter, so that you can see anything caught in it.

The outlet on the fuel tank is on the top, most likely fitted to a pipe going to the bottom, that has to draw fuel up to get out of the tank. It will need some suction to start that, it's not just going to start flowing with gravity. It *might* have a line full enough of fuel that when disconnected it draws fuel out of the tank with vacuum pressure, but I wouldn't expect that to happen, or suspect a problem if it didn't.

Get a longish piece of hose, replace the hose to the carb with it and run it into a gas can. Start the engine, start with leftover fuel in the bowl or just starting fluid. See if the pump squirts gas out. Sometimes, just the starter isn't enough to do it (though it is on mine).

Take that gas can and fuel line (block off or disconnect the fuel pump so that it doesn't dump gas all over if this works), hold it above the carburetor, push that longish fuel line into the tank to fill it, hold suction with your thumb over it and pull it out, and down, and quickly connect to the carburetor (try not to spill too much, but if you don't spill any, you're doing it wrong)... Creating a gravity feed from the gas can into the carb (make sure the line always stays full to maintain suction and gravity feed). Try starting it.
 

T3C

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Just installed the fuel pump, which worked a little too well... Cranked it a bunch to build pressure and I could see fuel filling the new inline fuel filters I installed. It still wouldn’t turn over so I sprayed some starting fluid and mashed the gas pedal a few times. Fired right up! However, it was idling at an incredibly high rate of RPMs. I let it go for a while hoping it would slow down after 15-30s, but it didn’t. Slowly put into 1st to see if that would help, but it didn’t. Turned it off, went to put the stick back in neutral and the stick is totally frozen. Peeked under the car and saw a new puddle of fluid dripping from appears to be the front diff (see attached picture). Do I just need to refill transmission fluid to un-freeze the gear stick or did I just ruin the transmission?
30E68B90-9F5F-4CB3-9437-93C2CF33E19A.jpeg
 
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Looks like gas to me.
Clean it all up good with water before you start a fire.
Make sure all the lines you just attached have clamps holding them secure.
 

T3C

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Looks like gas to me.
Clean it all up good with water before you start a fire.
Make sure all the lines you just attached have clamps holding them secure.

Update: it is most certainly oil. Found the source from a chronic issue (leaking from gasket at the bottom of the engine block). I’m pretty sure the super high RPMs caused it to fly out. Confirmed via checking engine dipstick. I topped it off with more oil.

All gas lines are secure and pump is mated firmly to engine block.

Gear stick feels like it is stuck in neutral. Won’t even play freely from side to side. Any idea what I should do? I’m going to search the forum, but brainstorming here would be very welcome!
 
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The fuel pump is right above the front axle. If it wasn't leaking last week, and now it is... The oil filter is right next to is also, and probably the first place any overload of oil pressure would blow out of the engine would be around there, with the oil pump right under the distributor pumping oil into the filter first.

If it's running with the clutch out and not moving, should be in neutral. and if it worked last week and not now? seems odd, transmissions breaking just sitting on a driveway isn't a common thing, probably something clutch related? but should still wobble side to side. If not in neutral, gears are jammed together, push / rock the truck an inch or so?
 
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oof, you're having a rough time. First, it sounds like you really need a rebuild on your carburetor. The pump may have been ill, but I think the carburetor was the likely the main issue.

The transmission thing might be as simple as rocking it back and forth a bit? Maybe? Was it really worn before?
 

T3C

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Just tried rocking the cruiser back-and-forth while having my wife depress the clutch. Was able to easily push the car fore and aft (like it would be if in neutral), but the gear stick seems to be absolutely frozen despite all the effort.

Any ideas what I should do to un-freeze the stick? If it is stuck in 2 gears, what is the solution? I did some searching on MUD, but really didn’t find much. It appears other have gotten stuck in neutral, but circumstances are quite different.

Never really had any shifting issues prior to this. There was always a bit of slop/play, but never got stuck in neutral. Even if it is a clutch issue, why would that prevent me from moving the stick freely while in neutral?
 
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A clutch issue wouldn't prevent moving the stick. You might remove the boot and see if you can see anything foreign that is binding things up.
 

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