Emissions woes (catalytic converter/o2) - P0057

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S

swoop

Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Threads
16
Messages
67
Location
Georgia
Not sure what to try next and want to consult with the community before making another move. This is for a 2005 lx470 and started off with a p0420/430 code for catalytic converter efficiency as well as a p0441. I did some digging here and after being told by multiple shops that it was the cats, not bad 02’s,went with the route of removing the cats (non emission testing county) and having pipe welded into its place with a new bung and o2 sensor spacer as well as installed a new purge valve (hoping to avoid a new charcoal canister).

Got the vehicle back from the muffler shop and cleared codes. Well, the P0420/430 is gone, but has been replaced with a p0057 and P0036. And P0441 is still present.

I then took it for a drive and heard a noise on the passenger side that sounded like an exhaust leak. Got under the vehicle and gave it a once over and immediately noticed a hole in the muffler (actual muffler not rear resonator). Also the vehicle seems to have lost a slight bit of low end torque with removing the cats (could be in my head).

Questions I’m hoping to get answered :

1) is it possible the rusted out muffler leak is what caused the codes initially? Two different shops confirmed no exhaust leaks before I sent it to the muffler shop for cat removal. Being downstream of all sensors I assume not but am curious. Is a new muffler going to be a necessary step in correcting the codes?
2) any thoughts on remedying the new 02 codes?
3) was it a long term mistake to remove the cats? The initial codes are cleared which makes me think the cats were a problem potentially, but am now worried about performance loss (potentially due to lack of back pressure or incorrect a/f ratio), and if there’s any long term implications to removing them for engine health.
4) with the purge valve replaced is the only remaining part that would fix the 441 code a new charcoal canister? That’s the mechanics thoughts at the moment but I’d like to get rh cat/o2 issues worked thru before I put a new canister in and potentially damage it with the existing issues.
 
Personally I wouldn't have butchered the exhaust system on a 100 series like that. It will be costly, but all of the OEM components to return to a factory exhaust setup are still available brand new.
 
Muffler good bad or ugly, makes no difference to ECM (Engine control modular).

Some may come here and tell you, how to circumvent smog system. I will not. It makes no difference, you're in a County, which has no smog rules. We all live inside the same bubble. CAT work!

CAT do not just go bad. They can last 1 million even more. When they do fail. We must find out the why/cause. We must correct the why. Then replace the CATS, if actually bad.

Has your engine every been turned or is it a drive until needs tow to shop
Is your shop some INDY, that works on all makes and models. If so, find either a shop that specialize in 100 series, or take to Toyota/Lexus Dealership. Or better yet. Do the work yourself.

You likely have a flooded CC. Often times, when they are saturated, will get fuel boiling. Then we see excessive vapor, even raw fuel, come out gas cap area. This is more prevalent at higher elevation, then you have in GA. So you may not see they signs as we do. Which is mucky dirty gas cap area. Raw fuel smell near rear. Old stale fuel smell, like gas in can for 5 years. Engine RPM dropping, erratic RPM, some even stall at stop lights on hot days. Number one reason they get flooded: Over filling fuel tank. Which Owners manual warns us not to.

I'd:
Replace CC.
Tune engine. I may do a compression and or fuel pressure test, if signs warrant it.
Perhaps, replace MAF sensor.
Replace CATs with either OEM or Aftermarket.
Make sure all 4 O2's working as they should be.
Make sure. No exhaust leaks. From heads to just past rear O2's. You can remove muffler, It only makes difference in sound.
Make sure fuel trims as they should be. Near zero when cruising on HWY.
 
rexington14 said:
Personally I wouldn't have butchered the exhaust system on a 100 series like that. It will be costly, but all of the OEM components to return to a factory exhaust setup are still available brand new.
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I kept the cats so I can reverse the process, but curious on the questions above in the mean time. Especially considering it cleared the 420/430 codes to remove them.
 
Truck is serviced regularly at both a cruiser specialty shop and a dealership. Valve cover gaskets, plugs and plug seals, throttle body all done recently. Do you have thoughts on losing the codes catalytic efficiency codes but getting the o2 heater circuit codes? Do you think replacing 02 with the current catless setup would work?
 
swoop said:
Any idea on the P0057 codes that are now present?
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Are the rear O2's in the pipes and wires hook to them. If no, that your reason. If yes, likely same temp as fronts, due to CAT missing.
 
2001LC said:
Are the rear O2's in the pipes and wires hook to them. If no, that your reason. If yes, likely same temp as fronts, due to CAT missing.
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Yes they are in the pipes and wires are connected. How do so many go without cats and avoid this code for temp? The rears want to see lower temp than the fronts I suppose your saying? I was under the impression they just measured front to rear oxygen difference, which the spacer accounts for.
 
Replaced orig crossover pipe on 2003 which had small hole, and its gaskets which were also leaking- codes went away. 2 yrs ago replaced rear O2 sensors, gaskets were shot got rid of codes back then. The CRC Guaranteed to Pass cleaner had got me to pass emissions in the past when others failed. It didn't help with the crossover pipe hole though. I hooked a shop vac on blow to tailpipe to help find leaks.
 
swoop said:
Truck is serviced regularly at both a cruiser specialty shop and a dealership. Valve cover gaskets, plugs and plug seals, throttle body all done recently. Do you have thoughts on losing the codes catalytic efficiency codes but getting the o2 heater circuit codes? Do you think replacing 02 with the current catless setup would work?
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In case you missed this in post above: "Some may come here and tell you, how to circumvent smog system. I will not. "

I do not, nor do I condone. Any alteration of, anti pollution system. Unless it improves the effectiveness.
 
2001LC said:
In case you missed this in post above: "Some may come here and tell you, how to circumvent smog system. I will not. "

I do not, nor do I condone. Any alteration of, anti pollution system. Unless it improves the effectiveness.
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Got ya… anyone have any advise for the codes im dealing with? There’s quite a few members going this same route who don’t have codes…
 
2001LC said:
In case you missed this in post above: "Some may come here and tell you, how to circumvent smog system. I will not. "

I do not, nor do I condone. Any alteration of, anti pollution system. Unless it improves the effectiveness.
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My truck's exhaust system is stock. I have the Borla Cat Back stainless kit which I highly recommend.
 
Carpati said:
My truck's exhaust system is stock. I have the Borla Cat Back stainless kit which I highly recommend.
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"CAT back". Indicates CAT's, are in place. The borla muffler & pipes have no effect on pollution control systems.

Choice of mufflers is based on:
Budget.
Sound.
Ground clearance.
Easy of install.

Choice of CAT, is based on:
Budget.
Availability.

Note:
Most any CAT will do. But in states like CA & CO. Laws, of which brand can be used. Has to do with certification. Which CARB is a high standard and expense to pass. Some manufacture aren't willing to spend or few can't pass. But most of CATs (that aren't total china junk). Will pass tail pipe emission test. How long they'll last depends on, for one. How well built. OEM are top shelve build quality.
 
Bump. Anybody who has o2 spacers in place ever experienced the P0057 code?
 
swoop said:
Have no interest in a louder truck. Just want a quiet vehicle without codes.
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I hear you. I just put that in as an FYI when a lot of my pipes and muffler needed to be replaced, I picked up the Borla kit for $600, shopping around online. It's great having stainless. It wasn't that much louder either. A mild growl. Good luck!
 
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