Hi,
What's your experience with Eaton E-Lockers on the 200?
Why did you choose them over ARB's?
What's your experience with Eaton E-Lockers on the 200?
Why did you choose them over ARB's?
Last edited:
Eaton E-Lockers vs. ARB Lockers
- Thread starter Mago
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
I use my E-Lockers a lot and reckon they are quite simply brilliant.
When choosing ‘selectable’ lockers for my 200 I had basically two options. (1) hydraulic lockers -like ARB Air-lockers - or (2) electric - like factory lockers or E-Lockers.
My past experience with air-lockers and research on Eaton’s undeniable US engineering pedigree led me to conclude that E-Lockers despite there simplicity (or perhaps because of it) are state of the art and just work. Air lockers, on the other hand, are yesterday's tech trying to hold on.
I know there are many people very happy with their choice of Air-lockers but believe me there are just as many who have had a complete guts full of the dam things leaking oil and blowing seals etc.
Why anybody would think that flipping a switch - to drive a compressor - to create air pressure - to pneumatically drive a mechanical lever - to lock a diff is somehow a better idea than simply flipping a switch to lock a diff is completely beyond me. (The locking mechanism in an E-locker IS the electromagnet.) I believe the complications inherent in air-actuated locker systems are the root cause of the regular failures of that system. In my opinion there's just too much that can go wrong with air lockers and that’s why so much does go wrong with them. How many reports have you heard about leaking seals and or oil being driven back up the air lines? - I have seen it myself on the trail many times. For me it’s the ‘KISS’ Principle writ large.
If E-Lockers have any potential fault its that they are such silent runners that you can run the risk of inadvertent engagement or forgetting they are engaged or perhaps not being sure they have engaged if you are not turning. This is easily solved using safety toggle switches or by adding an LED blinker or buzzer on a delay timer if you feel the need. Also, Eaton advise against engaging them at high speed as you perhaps can with some air-lockers. But for me that's no disadvantage. When I'm using the lockers I'm usually crawling slow and steady without fuss. It might be a different story for an extreme off-road racer I accept.
I note that ARB always make a point of extolling the virtues of onboard air and I guess its true that having a built-in compressor can be a handy thing but with the advent of cheap 12v portable compressors I see no real advantage in onboard air any longer – just one more thing to go wrong.
In conclusion I would add that although Eaton and more recently Eaton-Harrop have been making E-Lockers of different types for quite a while now I accept that they may still need to prove themselves to the average off-roader and that I guess just takes time. I have no doubts that that will happen. Fact is I will not be surprised to see an electric locker variant appear in the ARB catalogue – and sooner than later.
When choosing ‘selectable’ lockers for my 200 I had basically two options. (1) hydraulic lockers -like ARB Air-lockers - or (2) electric - like factory lockers or E-Lockers.
My past experience with air-lockers and research on Eaton’s undeniable US engineering pedigree led me to conclude that E-Lockers despite there simplicity (or perhaps because of it) are state of the art and just work. Air lockers, on the other hand, are yesterday's tech trying to hold on.
I know there are many people very happy with their choice of Air-lockers but believe me there are just as many who have had a complete guts full of the dam things leaking oil and blowing seals etc.
Why anybody would think that flipping a switch - to drive a compressor - to create air pressure - to pneumatically drive a mechanical lever - to lock a diff is somehow a better idea than simply flipping a switch to lock a diff is completely beyond me. (The locking mechanism in an E-locker IS the electromagnet.) I believe the complications inherent in air-actuated locker systems are the root cause of the regular failures of that system. In my opinion there's just too much that can go wrong with air lockers and that’s why so much does go wrong with them. How many reports have you heard about leaking seals and or oil being driven back up the air lines? - I have seen it myself on the trail many times. For me it’s the ‘KISS’ Principle writ large.
If E-Lockers have any potential fault its that they are such silent runners that you can run the risk of inadvertent engagement or forgetting they are engaged or perhaps not being sure they have engaged if you are not turning. This is easily solved using safety toggle switches or by adding an LED blinker or buzzer on a delay timer if you feel the need. Also, Eaton advise against engaging them at high speed as you perhaps can with some air-lockers. But for me that's no disadvantage. When I'm using the lockers I'm usually crawling slow and steady without fuss. It might be a different story for an extreme off-road racer I accept.
I note that ARB always make a point of extolling the virtues of onboard air and I guess its true that having a built-in compressor can be a handy thing but with the advent of cheap 12v portable compressors I see no real advantage in onboard air any longer – just one more thing to go wrong.
In conclusion I would add that although Eaton and more recently Eaton-Harrop have been making E-Lockers of different types for quite a while now I accept that they may still need to prove themselves to the average off-roader and that I guess just takes time. I have no doubts that that will happen. Fact is I will not be surprised to see an electric locker variant appear in the ARB catalogue – and sooner than later.
Last edited:
This thread and your post ^ saved me having to write you (edit: @ Billfish) and email and ask about your lockers. Nice thread. Nice post.
I'm wondering how the ARB guys feel and if they'll post up their comments and thoughts.
Personally I've been leaning towards the e-lockers on 100's partly because of Toy already eng'ered in it. Also partly cuz I don't want a compressor in-cabin (dealing with the issues of installation and running lines is one thing but having it running in the vehicle and taking up space is another).
Now I'm looking at upgrading to a 200 and if/when I do, this go around I'll keep the rear seats (hopefully even installed if I can figure out a box design with the seats in the car). So rear space is at a premium and last thing I think I'll be wanting is a compressor taking up space. Maybe building all the hook ups for a compressor but then only having it in the car on expeditions is the way to go. I don't know but right now I think I like the idea of e-lockers, keeping the 3rd row installed and folded flat OR up and then having drawer storage that's easily removable.
I'm wondering how the ARB guys feel and if they'll post up their comments and thoughts.
Personally I've been leaning towards the e-lockers on 100's partly because of Toy already eng'ered in it. Also partly cuz I don't want a compressor in-cabin (dealing with the issues of installation and running lines is one thing but having it running in the vehicle and taking up space is another).
Now I'm looking at upgrading to a 200 and if/when I do, this go around I'll keep the rear seats (hopefully even installed if I can figure out a box design with the seats in the car). So rear space is at a premium and last thing I think I'll be wanting is a compressor taking up space. Maybe building all the hook ups for a compressor but then only having it in the car on expeditions is the way to go. I don't know but right now I think I like the idea of e-lockers, keeping the 3rd row installed and folded flat OR up and then having drawer storage that's easily removable.
When looking for a differential lock for my 200 easiest thing to find locally would be the ARB lockers. I as well didn't want to install the air lines and a compressor to operate the locker as i've seen a few people suffering with them in the desert and the system refusing to engage. I like simplicity, someone recommended me to get an e- locker and while i was researching I found the "LOKKA" diff lock which is an auto locker.. I was wondering what are your views on auto / detroit lockers as well. I've had them on for 16,000km+ on my 200 and they've added massive amounts of traction compared to the lsd performance. Would you guys ever consider an auto locker or what disadvantage do you find with it, other than the constant knocking noise while taking turns
For me a selectable locker is important. i.e able to be engaged and disengaged on demand. Therefore auto lockers were ruled out.
The 200 has a more than capable traction control system and VSC system for every day on-road use and for moderate off-road use but the system can never be considered as capable as real lockers. I should add there are occasions that you need all the power and even wheel spin that you can get. Atrac effectively robs you of power by braking a spinning wheel resulting in halving the available power across an axle to the wheel with traction. Lockers do not steal net power to the wheel with traction.
Also, when you lift a 200 you run the very real risk of the 200's agressive Atrac system smashing the CV joints in part due to the increased shaft angles and reduction in spline contact (lots of examples here and on Lcool about this very problem if you search.)
Some guys take the smart option of doing a diff drop to alleviate or at least lessen this risk. For me, I want to remove the risk by effectively disengaging the Atrac and adding back the extra capability that only real lockers can provide. (As it happens I am also in the process of doing the diff drop - for CV longevity sake more than anything else.
Mark: Price is bugger-all difference I think. Slightly more to buy but a bit less to install. Only thing I would add is that you need slightly different side carrier bearings from factory bearings for the front differ locker (outer shell is different OD). The rear carrier bearings are standard. In practise however you would be mad not to replace both sets while you were doing the job. Also I have to say the switches for the dash that they provide are useless. I swapped mine to these below: Plus with brillant red glowing LEDs you can't miss noticing they are engaged - even on the brightest of days.
The 200 has a more than capable traction control system and VSC system for every day on-road use and for moderate off-road use but the system can never be considered as capable as real lockers. I should add there are occasions that you need all the power and even wheel spin that you can get. Atrac effectively robs you of power by braking a spinning wheel resulting in halving the available power across an axle to the wheel with traction. Lockers do not steal net power to the wheel with traction.
Also, when you lift a 200 you run the very real risk of the 200's agressive Atrac system smashing the CV joints in part due to the increased shaft angles and reduction in spline contact (lots of examples here and on Lcool about this very problem if you search.)
Some guys take the smart option of doing a diff drop to alleviate or at least lessen this risk. For me, I want to remove the risk by effectively disengaging the Atrac and adding back the extra capability that only real lockers can provide. (As it happens I am also in the process of doing the diff drop - for CV longevity sake more than anything else.
Mark: Price is bugger-all difference I think. Slightly more to buy but a bit less to install. Only thing I would add is that you need slightly different side carrier bearings from factory bearings for the front differ locker (outer shell is different OD). The rear carrier bearings are standard. In practise however you would be mad not to replace both sets while you were doing the job. Also I have to say the switches for the dash that they provide are useless. I swapped mine to these below: Plus with brillant red glowing LEDs you can't miss noticing they are engaged - even on the brightest of days.
Last edited:
In the USA E-lockers are not available for Toyota applications. On other models where both options are available, we've found the ARB lockers to be far superior in terms of strength. The original design Eaton E-locker used dowel pins to lock the side gear. These units we've seen quite a few failures on, and havent even sold 1/10th of them as the same application ARB air locker. The next design Eaton Elocker (like Dana 44) has a coupler ring, but it's not a full multi tooth anular coupler like an ARB locker. We've actually removed broken units to replace them with ARB lockers. I love the idea of an electric locker, and the failures we've seen havent had anything to do with the magnet coil, or other electrical part. They have been mechanical failures. Eaton has redeveloped a couple of models, for example the Dana 30 and Dana 35 model features a sturdy design, and I haven't seen any failures, which is surprising as these applications are often times undersized and over abused
. Rumor has it that Eaton will be bringing some Toyota applications to the US, and we'll be carrying them. Hopefully they will be the latter design.
. Rumor has it that Eaton will be bringing some Toyota applications to the US, and we'll be carrying them. Hopefully they will be the latter design.
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure Harrop who have developed the Eaton for the 200 series will supply the 200 lockers direct as they have no established reseller in US yet. Hopefully Just Differentials will change that in the near future.
These links might be useful for those who dont want to wait.
http://www.harrop.com.au/4wd.php.
http://www.yotatech.com/f31/harrop-eaton-elocker-tacoma-259801/
These links might be useful for those who dont want to wait.
http://www.harrop.com.au/4wd.php.
http://www.yotatech.com/f31/harrop-eaton-elocker-tacoma-259801/
- Thread starter
- #10
Bill,
How does the locker interact with the crawl/A-Trac mode? Have you tried them both?
Where did you purchase the Harrop lockers from?
How does the locker interact with the crawl/A-Trac mode? Have you tried them both?
Where did you purchase the Harrop lockers from?
Since the 200 series have open diffs front and back the diffs always seek to send power to the wheel that has the least resistance across an axle. That's pretty much Diffs 101.
Atrac -and to an extent VSC system- work by the ECU determining that the wheels on either end of an axle are spinning at different revolutions. The ECU sends a signal to the ABS system that fires the brakes on the wheel that is spinning faster. To the diff this has the effect of equalizing the resistance to both wheels thereby forcing the diff to send equal power to both wheels including the wheel with the greater traction. When you lock a diff with lockers by definition you are ensuring that both wheels rotate at the same speed therefore the ECU detects no wheel speed difference - ego the ATRAC is not invoked. I do however routinely disengage the Atrac and VSC systems as soon as I go off road to protect my CVs whether I'm using lockers or not. Crawl control is basically throttle control mixed with Atrac. The crawl control just rolls forward without any braking (or jerks forward same as it performs on a flat dry paved road.)
Atrac -and to an extent VSC system- work by the ECU determining that the wheels on either end of an axle are spinning at different revolutions. The ECU sends a signal to the ABS system that fires the brakes on the wheel that is spinning faster. To the diff this has the effect of equalizing the resistance to both wheels thereby forcing the diff to send equal power to both wheels including the wheel with the greater traction. When you lock a diff with lockers by definition you are ensuring that both wheels rotate at the same speed therefore the ECU detects no wheel speed difference - ego the ATRAC is not invoked. I do however routinely disengage the Atrac and VSC systems as soon as I go off road to protect my CVs whether I'm using lockers or not. Crawl control is basically throttle control mixed with Atrac. The crawl control just rolls forward without any braking (or jerks forward same as it performs on a flat dry paved road.)
does any one know what the G wagon from merc uses as their lockers is it elect?
vacuum hydraulic differential locks
http://www.mercedestechstore.com/pdfs/G%20files/217%20HO%2003%20Diff%20Locks%20(ACB-IC-TF)%202-05-03.pdf
http://www.mercedestechstore.com/pdfs/G%20files/217%20HO%2003%20Diff%20Locks%20(ACB-IC-TF)%202-05-03.pdf
Not true. CRAWL controls the throttle and brakes.
Two quick videos addressing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLD2iQk_VMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l4QWz1W-dw
This technology, IMHO, does a better job than a simple locking differential.
- Thread starter
- #15
Gaijin, I think what Bill meant is CRAWL just rolls forward without any braking when the lockers are activated. Which makes sense.
Yes sorry perhaps I wasnt completely clear. I meant that is what happens to crawl control behaviour when diff locks are engaged.
If you try your crawl control on a flat dry surface where there is no chance wheel slippage the vehicle tends to lurch forward in pulses without any individual wheel braking. Do the same on a slight hill where the vehicle has a bit of resistance and the car will move forward far more smoothly and quietly but still with no individual wheel braking. Atrac can only work when there is wheel speed differerential. Try it.
As to whether Atrac or lockers offer superior capability off road I guess we will just have to disagree on that one.
If you try your crawl control on a flat dry surface where there is no chance wheel slippage the vehicle tends to lurch forward in pulses without any individual wheel braking. Do the same on a slight hill where the vehicle has a bit of resistance and the car will move forward far more smoothly and quietly but still with no individual wheel braking. Atrac can only work when there is wheel speed differerential. Try it.
As to whether Atrac or lockers offer superior capability off road I guess we will just have to disagree on that one.
- Thread starter
- #17
Bill,
I use my lockers when I get bogged in the sand, and sometimes when I cross diagonally small sand hillies.. I don't crawl up rocky terrain as we don't have this kind of terrain here..
In soft sand, I would think there is no difference between the Crawl/ATrac and the locker, since both will tend to move the torque to the loaded wheel.
I haven't tried a Crawl in sand before, but have seen youtube videos to witness this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJkF99GDz14
What's your comment on the above, and this video? Would the locker have performed better?
Where to buy the Eaton locker online?
I use my lockers when I get bogged in the sand, and sometimes when I cross diagonally small sand hillies.. I don't crawl up rocky terrain as we don't have this kind of terrain here..
In soft sand, I would think there is no difference between the Crawl/ATrac and the locker, since both will tend to move the torque to the loaded wheel.
I haven't tried a Crawl in sand before, but have seen youtube videos to witness this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJkF99GDz14
What's your comment on the above, and this video? Would the locker have performed better?
Where to buy the Eaton locker online?
obviously the crawl wont work unless its engaged but when you have the lockers installed either ARB or the Eaton type does this interfere with the Atrac or other traction control devices? How do you make sure that these traction aids are still helping you out?
In order for CRAWL to do its job, any lockers would have to be DISengaged.
In CRAWL mode, power is applied to any of the 4 wheels that is NOT slipping. If any of the 4 wheels is slipping, it is individually braked.
I know not all agree, but I can't help but conclude that having this kind of control over each individual wheel is going to be more effective than using lockers which would apply power to all locked wheel pairs - slipping or not.
