Cold start issues

[rockstate45]

Hey guys, I fIgured I'd turn to mud for the solution to my issue. I have a 1997 LX with about 153k. I've put 10k on in the last year and both winters I've noticed some cold weather starting issues.

When the temp drops below freezing, it has trouble starting. It'll try to crank but the engine will...say, sputter, for lack of a better term. It'll generally start the next crank. And by sputter, I mean it's almost as if nothing happens a split second. The starter tries to engage but nothing.

Now, I have realized that I can work around this issue by just putting the key in the "on" position until the chime goes off. If it's really cold, I'll wait another 20 seconds just to make sure I don't have issues cranking truck over.

It does have a new Walmart battery from last winter.

So, my questions to the mud community are thus.

1. What could it be?

2. What happens when you put the key in the on position without starting the truck? In other words, is it a fuel related issue?

3. Is there any damage that occurs when this happens?

I've searched other threads but don't have a good answer to go off for what my truck is doing. I've read the starter in the past. Unsure of the history of mine,but it does sometimes take a little longer to crank;, well, more so than my Tundra.

Thanks, guys.

 

[rockstate45]

I'm guessing it's fuel related since if I have the truck in the on position for long enough, it won't have trouble starting. So, with that in mind, what could be the weak link in the fuel system?

I wonder if it could be a clogged fuel filter? Or if maybe the cold weather is wreaking havoc on the fuel pump?

 

[blkprj80]

My guess would be a bad battery connection, or something related.

A wal-mart battery might not be your best option. Watch your (illuminated) dome light when you crank it. Bright/normal = good voltage. Dim/dropping out = voltage bad.

 

[rockstate45]

My guess would be a bad battery connection, or something related.

A wal-mart battery might not be your best option. Watch your (illuminated) dome light when you crank it. Bright/normal = good voltage. Dim/dropping out = voltage bad.

That's a good point. I thought it was the battery last year and it was replaced under their warranty. Unfortunately, it didn't help much.

I don't know if it's electrical since if I leave the key in the on position for30-60 seconds, it doesn't do it. But, if I get in the car and immediately crank it, nothing will happen... I should rephrase that last part... If I immediately crank it, it will show the symptoms I described.


I'll drive it tomorrow and see if I can get a video

 

[rockstate45]

Lexus LX450 cold start, no symptoms:

Video I took this morning. There were some workers in the cul-de-sac so I didn't want to just crank it knowing what it would do.

 

[Reelitchy]

Could be a few things. You probly haven't done the canister mod and the tank may not be venting- fuel sucking back to the tank. That may be why it starts ok after first start or letting the fuel pump build up psi. You also may hear a big gush when u open the cap. Just a thought

 

[rockstate45]

Could be a few things. You probly haven't done the canister mod and the tank may not be venting- fuel sucking back to the tank. That may be why it starts ok after first start or letting the fuel pump build up psi. You also may hear a big gush when u open the cap. Just a thought

That's a good point. I haven't done either of those. Normally, I hear the air gush when it's hot outside, not when cold. I will check tonight when I leave work and make a video of the sound I'm trying to describe.

I wonder how long the fuel pump runs before it shuts off? I.e., if you turn the key to the On position for 10 minutes without cranking it, how long would the fuel pump run?

Hmm, off to google ...

 

[Reelitchy]

Until it builds up the psi

 

[Reelitchy]

Quick easy check.... Tonight start and run engine - take off fuel cap - shut down engine. Leave cap off overnight and fire up normally. If you still have problem it could be FPR or fuel pump leaking back to tank

 

[rockstate45]

Quick easy check.... Tonight start and run engine - take off fuel cap - shut down engine. Leave cap off overnight and fire up normally. If you still have problem it could be FPR or fuel pump leaking back to tank

Makes sense to me. I will post a video of things first then when I Park it for the night, I'll take care of business.

Thanks for the suggestions. Video coming in about an hour

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Battery sounds weak and the starter is hanging a bit.

 

[rockstate45]

Battery sounds weak and the starter is hanging a bit. Your problem definitely sounds fuel pressure related though.

Hmm. That may be the case... I will try to get it checked if I have time tomorrow.

Anyway, here is the video of the problem. Temp is 30*
Lexus LX 450 cold start with symptoms:

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

That sounds like cables/ends, battery and or starter. Edited my above post, NOT Fuel pressure related.

 

[blkprj80]

What is the CCA on the battery? Not that you could trust Wally to give you an accurate number.

Are your cables original, or have they been redone?

When batteries are cold, I've heard that it is a good idea to turn on your headlights for a minute or two, then start it. This is more sub-zero but I wonder if your battery needs to be "woke up" to get the juices flowing.

It really does sound like you're not getting enough current to the starter as the piston comes up on compression.

I suppose the battery isn't swappable with your Tundra?

 

[Reelitchy]

Well I agree that the second video sounds more like a low battery etc but what I'm hearing - and caution suggested - could you possibly have an injector leaking pretty bad. Will it sound even worse after a night of sitting? When it tries to fire may be fuel in one cylinder trying to fire- and maybe even a little liquid starting to lock??? Did the problem go away last year when you replaced the battery? Just a few more thoughts for you to ponder.

 

[rockstate45]

That sounds like cables/ends, battery and or starter. Edited my above post, NOT Fuel pressure related.

Well I agree that the second video sounds more like a low battery etc but what I'm hearing - and caution suggested - could you possibly have an injector leaking pretty bad. Will it sound even worse after a night of sitting? When it tries to fire may be fuel in one cylinder trying to fire- and maybe even a little liquid starting to lock??? Did the problem go away last year when you replaced the battery? Just a few more thoughts for you to ponder.

What is the CCA on the battery? Not that you could trust Wally to give you an accurate number.

Are your cables original, or have they been redone?

When batteries are cold, I've heard that it is a good idea to turn on your headlights for a minute or two, then start it. This is more sub-zero but I wonder if your battery needs to be "woke up" to get the juices flowing.

It really does sound like you're not getting enough current to the starter as the piston comes up on compression.

I suppose the battery isn't swappable with your Tundra?

Well my iPad hates me so I can't respond to each of you guys individually but to answer some questions here, I thought it was initially the battery too. I thought it would take a few minutes to get the juices flowing too. The new battery actually didn't change anything for me. Maybe a placebo effect.

Now, as I mentioned before the only thing that alleviates this is by letting the truck sit in the on position for about 30 seconds before cranking. If I do that, it starts like normal (see first video). If I don't, it'll start like the second video, or even maybe a little rougher....if the temperature is lower.

I like the idea of swapping batteries out. I would bet that the tundra is a little bigger battery. As long as it fits and hooks up, there will be no ill effects, right?

Also, I'd venture to bet that the cables are original. The vehicle is in pretty good shape

 

[rockstate45]

So, I haven't done much in the way of tracking down the issue but I drove it today for the first time since Sunday. 32* outside this morning, let it sit in the "on" position for about 30 seconds or so and it stumbled again. Next start was a hair rough.

Maybe fuel? I'm going to start working on the ideas in this thread tonight. It's going to be nice this weekend so I'll have some time then too.

Anybody else have any ideas or comments?

 

[rockstate45]

Well, had the battery tested last night and it tested just fine according to the guy at NTB.

Now the question is, do I rebuild the starter thinking that could be it at $90-125 + $80-120 for labor or do a refurbed one online and do it myself?

Problem is, it's cold and I don't have a heated garage to work in.

Thoughts?

 

[blkprj80]

Check your base timing?

 

[rockstate45]

Before I start with the timing, I'll try the simple things first.

I moved over a group 35 die hard platinum battery into the cruiser from my tundra. 850 CCA. Started right up this morning in 26* weather.

Upon making the switch, I noticed the positive terminal wasn't clamping tight. I changed it out once I got a part and now it sits purdy.

I'm hoping between those two things, I'll be able to narrow it down. If not, I'll chase into the starter. Onto some progress now.