Camber issue - I think

[Fortywhiner]

Ok, I learned my lesson. Gonna post pretty pictures. It looks like I have a huge camber problem. Rig pulls hard to the right when letting off the throttle.

First pic shows level flat against hub face with bubble far outside the center.

Second pic shows how far level has to be moved to center bubble. Result is way too much positive camber on passenger side.

Third pic shows level on driver side hub face with bubble only slightly off.

Last pic shows where the level has to be moved to center bubble. Result is slight negative camber on driver side.

It is my understanding that there is no adjustment. Should I be looking for new axle housing?

 

[snaggletto]

I see you are using two different jack stands. I'm not sure that your level means a whole lot without some level reference plane... I would take the truck to an alignment shop to get an accurate baseline. If something is out of whack they can tell you for sure.

 

[Fortywhiner]

I see you are using two different jack stands. I'm not sure that your level means a whole lot without some level reference plane... I would take the truck to an alignment shop to get an accurate baseline. If something is out of whack they can tell you for sure.

 

[snaggletto]

As to suspension mods, and long shackles. The pinion flange should be parallel to the transfer case flange in a stock setup. If the pinion flange is pointing up, common with longer shackles, this will cause steering problems. Can be fixed with angled shims installed between springs and axle, or go back to stock length shackles. Stock shackles are 2.75" pin to pin I believe...

 

[Fortywhiner]

I tried to get the rig as level as possible on garage floor. The positive camber is even visible to the eye. It also explains the pulling to right. I will probably have to get to an alignment shop. However, iif it is obviously toast, I won't even assemble it.

 

[Fortywhiner]

As to suspension mods, and long shackles. The pinion flange should be parallel to the transfer case flange in a stock setup. If the pinion flange is pointing up, common with longer shackles, this will cause steering problems. Can be fixed with angled shims installed between springs and axle, or go back to stock length shackles. Stock shackles are 2.75" pin to pin I believe...

My stock shackles measure approx 3 inches while the long ones are 3 inches longer at 6 inches. There are no shims. Definitely not a good set-up. I think it was done that way only temporary, but the builder sold it before he finished. I bought it from the person he sold it to. Therefore, much info was lost along the way. I get to figure it out.

 

[snaggletto]

After looking at your pics, if you raised the passenger side 1/8 -1/4" you would see a much different picture.

 

[snaggletto]

You have 6" shackles on the front springs?!! If so that is a problem. Put some stock length shackles on then see what you have. Don't you love dealing Previous Owner mystery mods?

 

[CruiserCoLittleRock]

in this instance it doesnt matter if the axle is perfectly level, the two surfaces of the rotors should be in a parallel relationship regardless of the axles tilt if you have them in exactly the same plane from side to side. I cant see how you made sure the rotors were in perfect alignment when you placed the level on them but Im assuming you did.

If you didnt move the axle bn pics you have an issue on the passenger side, either the knuckle bearing tube neck is bent up slightly in relation to the tube or a bearing is disintegrating on you.

I would build a litlle metal strap jig that locked the correct alignment distance bn and remeasure everything.

whenever we mess with knuclkles we always do the 12 to 6 oclock shake to see if the wheel bearing have any slack, I would check that as well.

good luck

 

[Fortywhiner]

You have 6" shackles on the front springs?!! If so that is a problem. Put some stock length shackles on then see what you have. Don't you love dealing Previous Owner mystery mods?

Yeah, bad setup but I cant put the stock shackles back on until I get lift springs or the diff will hit the oil pan. Here's a pic of the shackles.

 

[Fortywhiner]

in this instance it doesnt matter if the axle is perfectly level, the two surfaces of the rotors should be in a parallel relationship regardless of the axles tilt if you have them in exactly the same plane from side to side. I cant see how you made sure the rotors were in perfect alignment when you placed the level on them but Im assuming you did.

If you didnt move the axle bn pics you have an issue on the passenger side, either the knuckle bearing tube neck is bent up slightly in relation to the tube or a bearing is disintegrating on you.

I would build a litlle metal strap jig that locked the correct alignment distance bn and remeasure everything.

whenever we mess with knuclkles we always do the 12 to 6 oclock shake to see if the wheel bearing have any slack, I would check that as well.

good luck

I did the shake and they are tight and do not move. I attached angle iron across the hub face protruding out each side. I measured from one side of to the other in front and back. Is that adequate. Seems like maybe my process is not accurate enough. Maybe I should just finish the steering and the lift and get to that alignment shop? Pica show the angle iron. Maybe it was a mistake to measure the rotor against level. Should I have measured it in relation to the other rotor?

 

[Fortywhiner]

As to suspension mods, and long shackles. The pinion flange should be parallel to the transfer case flange in a stock setup. If the pinion flange is pointing up, common with longer shackles, this will cause steering problems. Can be fixed with angled shims installed between springs and axle, or go back to stock length shackles. Stock shackles are 2.75" pin to pin I believe...

This pinion angle doesn't look good, does it. Yeah, I already know the shackles are a problem. Going to order lift springs. Still deciding if I should do shackle reversal with 1.5 lift and 2.5 springs or just get 4" springs and leave the shackle location alone.

 

[handcannon]

Those type of jack stands don't work very well for leveling. Each notch, on mine, is 3/4 inch. If the level is off 1/16th inch in 4 ft, the level will be off by double that in 8 ft (I/8th inch in 96 inches), which is longer than the wheelbase of these 40's. If you are off 3/4 inch in 8 ft that equates to 3/8ths inch in 4 ft.

Jack stands that are threaded for vertical adjustment will make it much easier to get your 40 leveled. Unless you are used to using a level, leveling a 40 can take a bit of time. I'm am old time cabinetmaker, and I leveled a lot of C shaped kitchens. You can start off thinking the level is good, but by the time you get to the other end of the run you can be way off. When you are talking about 1 to 3 degrees for stock caster you are dealing with very small increments.

If you are working on a garage floor they are deliberately built with a slope to the outside for water drainage, and have to be compensated for when leveling.

Don

 

[handcannon]

This pinion angle doesn't look good, does it. View attachment 1295547

What kind of u-joint do you have coming out of the T-case? Is it double cardan? If so, then the pinion angle may not be so bad. But, if it is the same as the one in your pic, then you do have problems. Your idea of waiting until you complete suspension mods is a good idea. Anything you do, lift springs, shorter or longer shackles, etc, will affect your pinion angle.

Don

 

[Fortywhiner]

Those type of jack stands don't work very well for leveling. Each notch, on mine, is 3/4 inch. If the level is off 1/16th inch in 4 ft, the level will be off by double that in 8 ft (I/8th inch in 96 inches), which is longer than the wheelbase of these 40's. If you are off 3/4 inch in 8 ft that equates to 3/8ths inch in 4 ft.

Jack stands that are threaded for vertical adjustment will make it much easier to get your 40 leveled. Unless you are used to using a level, leveling a 40 can take a bit of time. I'm am old time cabinetmaker, and I leveled a lot of C shaped kitchens. You can start off thinking the level is good, but by the time you get to the other end of the run you can be way off. When you are talking about 1 to 3 degrees for stock caster you are dealing with very small increments.

If you are working on a garage floor they are deliberately built with a slope to the outside for water drainage, and have to be compensated for when leveling.

Don

All I did was measure the distance from the floor to the hub and made it the same on both sides. I guess I am out of my league and maybe I should leave it to the pros.

What kind of u-joint do you have coming out of the T-case? Is it double cardan? If so, then the pinion angle may not be so bad. But, if it is the same as the one in your pic, then you do have problems. Your idea of waiting until you complete suspension mods is a good idea. Anything you do, lift springs, shorter or longer shackles, etc, will affect your pinion angle.

Don[/QUOte
Yes, it is the same on both ends. We were concerned about pinion angle as it relates to caster.

 

[snaggletto]

No, you just need to get rid of what the PO did, and replace with proper parts.

 

[handcannon]

Don't give up easily. If you have the right type of attitude towards this project, and a willingness to figure things out, you will be able to succeed. The most important thing to remember is to take your time and think things through very carefully, ask questions, and have a do-it-yourself attitude.

If your u-joints are the same at each end of the driveshaft, do all your suspension and steering mods before even thinking about adjusting your caster.

Don

 

[too tall]

Can you post a picture of the entire housing from the front with a relatively long lens say a 50mm ? It's hard to see just what is going on without seeing all of it at once . A little longer lens will give you a shot with less aspherical distortion so that you can determine if something looks bent or not . Zoom in a little bit if you have a zoom and back away from the subject . Most new cameras don't actually tell you what size you are shooting so it may be hard to tell what size your camera is set at . I think you don't have enough caster from the look of the pinion if the housing is stock but it is hard to tell . I do understand you are talking about camber rather than caster that is why a full picture would help . The only way your camber can be off is if the housing is bent . In picture number 6 you have a piece of angle iron against the wheel mounting surface . If you raise it to clear the caliper and lightly clamp it to the disc itself on center you will get a more accurate measurement . This is the way I check toe in . Put a piece on either disk and measure the tires . Mark the angle iron in the center and transfer the wheel size onto the ends of the angle(on center) measure behind the axle and in front of the angle on the wheel size marks . compare the two . The rear should be a bit wider than the front . 1/8" to 1/4" depending on the tires size . I would set it at 1/8" in on the front for your setup . That should give you proper toe in . Post a pic of your housing full width . If you were accurate with your leveling and level placement then it looks like you have a bent housing in the wrong direction . Weird ?

 

[CruiserCoLittleRock]

I did the shake and they are tight and do not move. I attached angle iron across the hub face protruding out each side. I measured from one side of to the other in front and back. Is that adequate. Seems like maybe my process is not accurate enough. Maybe I should just finish the steering and the lift and get to that alignment shop? Pica show the angle iron. Maybe it was a mistake to measure the rotor against level. Should I have measured it in relation to the other rotor?

yeah you need to make sure both rotors are in exactly the same alignment plane before making your side to side comparisons...if your are sure both rotors are in exactly the same plane then there should not be a difference in the symmetrical vertical degrees...your level should tilt out the same distance from the respective rotor.

if you axle housing is true the, your rotors are in plane, the bearings are preloaded correctly both sides, the knuckle bearings both sides are in good shape, the level should indicate about the same bubble movement for both sides