Building Metal Barn ... Structurally Sound? (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Mar 31, 2019
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Location
Texas
I'm building a metal Monitor style barn in North Texas: 36' wide 48' Long 10' Clear . I plan to have the front 24' depth in concrete floor as a Shop (36'w x 24'deep) & the back 24' as barn sand for animals, equip & feed storage.
Here is the "Rub!" I want to have a 2nd floor 'Man Cave' over the center of the front shop area and still have clear span in the first floor. Sooooo...
Front, middle & back walls are the Structural bearing walls, Clear span between front to middle, middle to back.
The center 12' wide middle, or raised Monitor portion will be constructed with 4"x4"x3/16th uprights using 2"x6"x 1/8 steel as 24' beams spanning between front to Middle walls and middle to back wall. This creats the beams to carrie the 2nd floor? Right? Using 2"x6"x1/8" streel as 2nd floor floor joists.

Will this be structuraly sound, right?
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nope....
 
Ok, so i keep asking my Drafting & Archtc friends for referals to an Engineer type person and everyone seems to send plans out to some unknown somebody? Do you have any suggestions? Other than a contractor that is going to send back just a bid to build the barn.
 
I'd call your building department and ask them about your project. Most building officials have a handful of engineers that they recommend. If your project was in georgia, I'd be able to help you....
 
I'd call your building department and ask them about your project. Most building officials have a handful of engineers that they recommend. If your project was in georgia, I'd be able to help you....
Thank you... I'll just call and ask... They have been very cooperative on my acess road & home build!
 
I use a local structural engineer. My advice to people is to look for "John Johnson, PE - Structural Engineer" rather than "ACME Megacorp Structural Engineering, Inc." type firms. The smaller guys will do a couple hours of work while the megacorp will want to send a team and spend a week on it - $$$$$$!
 
I use a local structural engineer. My advice to people is to look for "John Johnson, PE - Structural Engineer" rather than "ACME Megacorp Structural Engineering, Inc." type firms. The smaller guys will do a couple hours of work while the megacorp will want to send a team and spend a week on it - $$$$$$!
Sounds good, Thank you
 
@PAToyota is right on the mark. A structural engineer is who you want to speak with. I worked as an Architect for 5 years, never getting a degree. I just built houses for 20 years to learn how to draw them. Took my plans to a structural engineer, he reviewed them and stamped them.
 
Pre-engineered...... save a fortune.

 
Pre-engineered...... save a fortune.


That may be in the 'Standard' single slope barns. Their Monitor barns are a special order, add clear span and they pass.

Thanks though,
 
I worked as an Architect for 5 years, never getting a degree. I just built houses for 20 years to learn how to draw them. Took my plans to a structural engineer, he reviewed them and stamped them.

I'm a Registered Architect, but I got out of college in 1990 just as they phased out being able to get your registration from experience only. I spent my first ten years after college working for Structural Engineers, so I can do the calculations for simple loading but hand off the complex loading situations to the Engineers.
 
That may be in the 'Standard' single slope barns. Their Monitor barns are a special order, add clear span and they pass.

What’s the budget for materials?

Guessing pre-engineered would be $22-24psf.

Engineered stamp on software designed pre-engineered steel buildings costs $600. Anything out of the proverbial box ~$1,500.

Can’t help but think it’d be cheaper in long run to find fabricator to build/engineer. We can do it, it’s exponentially more than conventional gabled structure, but can’t help but think there’s not 100 shops in Texas capable of same.
 
I'm cooking forr anoit 450 guys tonite, Wolf Chase competion... I'll get back to xou after the weekend!z
What’s the budget for materials?

Guessing pre-engineered would be $22-24psf.

Engineered stamp on software designed pre-engineered steel buildings costs $600. Anything out of the proverbial box ~$1,500.

Can’t help but think it’d be cheaper in long run to find fabricator to build/engineer. We can do it, it’s exponentially more than conventional gabled structure, but can’t help but think there’s not 100 shops in Texas capable of same.
Structure & Skin materials, Concerete floor & Curbing poured in place is running at $12.50/sf before Labor & Fabrication on barn doors. These costs have already been bid out, line item.
I expect Labor & Lift rental to run another $7.50

20190405_133518_Film3.jpg
 
Does it have to be a pole barn? My parents just built a 40x60 stick frame shop that looks like a barn. It may be more cost effective than you'd think. If you're going to finish it out inside it ends up being a lot faster/easier if it's stick frame. Downside is that you do lose the full open span inside. Trusses were engineered by the manufacturer so that saves a good amount of engineering costs that's wrapped into the truss package. I'm sure they could design a room above. These are 16' height down the center for 16' wide. Then the outer portions are 10' ceilings.

The interior of this shop is fully insulated, heated, finished out with an office, and has 200 amp 240v service which was the most available without uprades. IIRC total all-in cost was right at $100k. So $42/sf. But that's also full concrete 6" slab and foundation footers/walls. And built for 40lb/sf snow load and zone 4 earthquake. You can probably cut a good bit out of the cost for less concrete, insulation, heating/gas plumbing, and unfinished interior and lighter structural requirements for TX. Don't know if you could get it down to $25/sf, but if labor is cheap maybe.

Just thought it might be worth comparing the costs.
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And of course cruiser content.

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Does it have to be a pole barn? My parents just built a 40x60 stick frame shop that looks like a barn. It may be more cost effective than you'd think. If you're going to finish it out inside it ends up being a lot faster/easier if it's stick frame. Downside is that you do lose the full open span inside. Trusses were engineered by the manufacturer so that saves a good amount of engineering costs that's wrapped into the truss package. I'm sure they could design a room above. These are 16' height down the center for 16' wide. Then the outer portions are 10' ceilings.

The interior of this shop is fully insulated, heated, finished out with an office, and has 200 amp 240v service which was the most available without uprades. IIRC total all-in cost was right at $100k. So $42/sf. But that's also full concrete 6" slab and foundation footers/walls. And built for 40lb/sf snow load and zone 4 earthquake. You can probably cut a good bit out of the cost for less concrete, insulation, heating/gas plumbing, and unfinished interior and lighter structural requirements for TX. Don't know if you could get it down to $25/sf, but if labor is cheap maybe.

Just thought it might be worth comparing the costs.
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And of course cruiser content.

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Thank you Jetboy,

Yes, 1st floor Clear Span is a primary need and the 2nd floor space is directly over half of it. The 2nd floor weight span is only 24'. Having a Structural Engineer look at it now. I have heigth restriction, so using the Monitor style keeps me within that guidline.
 
What’s the budget for materials?

Guessing pre-engineered would be $22-24psf.

Engineered stamp on software designed pre-engineered steel buildings costs $600. Anything out of the proverbial box ~$1,500.

Can’t help but think it’d be cheaper in long run to find fabricator to build/engineer. We can do it, it’s exponentially more than conventional gabled structure, but can’t help but think there’s not 100 shops in Texas capable of same.
There are a 1000 people advertising, 10 that show up, 6 that take the plans home, 2 that have called back and one that actually gave me a bid $8000 higher than me hirering a welder & lift...
I just tried Mueller: they only bid their standard build without doors, windows, foundation and acknowledged they didn't really do 2nd floor buildouts ... So I would have to figure the structural on that part.
In otherwords.... They do straight frame & skin material kits.
 
I just tried Mueller: they only bid their standard build without doors, windows, foundation and acknowledged they didn't really do 2nd floor buildouts ... So I would have to figure the structural on that part.
In otherwords.... They do straight frame & skin material kits.

I get stuff like that all the time:
Them: "I can get plans online for $$, why do you charge $$$$ for plans?"
Me: "Well, if you can get them online for $$, you might as well go with them."
Them: "I would, but they won't do what I want/need. They only do what you see online."
Me: "Well, that's the cost difference. They do some 'standard' plans and then sell them over and over again, spreading the design and engineering costs over many, many sets of plans. You want me to design a 'one off' to your specifications and I have to charge all the design and engineering costs that go into that one time plan."
Them: "So why can't you charge me $$ for your plans?"
Me: :slap:

You're ahead of the game when you recognize where the costs fit in.
 
I get stuff like that all the time:
Them: "I can get plans online for $$, why do you charge $$$$ for plans?"
Me: "Well, if you can get them online for $$, you might as well go with them."
Them: "I would, but they won't do what I want/need. They only do what you see online."
Me: "Well, that's the cost difference. They do some 'standard' plans and then sell them over and over again, spreading the design and engineering costs over many, many sets of plans. You want me to design a 'one off' to your specifications and I have to charge all the design and engineering costs that go into that one time plan."
Them: "So why can't you charge me $$ for your plans?"
Me: :slap:

You're ahead of the game when you recognize where the costs fit in.
We never even talked dollars. When they sent me a drawing of what they were bidding for me, it wasn't even the barn style and would not have acomodate a 2nd floor. I really don't think my contact considered part of our discussion except the basic 36x48x10sidewalls.... That is all he responded to.... A waist of my time.
 
Yep, even outside of the $$$, places like that basically do what they do and little more. It would be like going to Walmart and wanting custom tailoring on the clothes they sell.
 
I’m interested to see what your engineer comes back with...looking at it, I would possibly design the upper walls as a big truss. IMO, your main members are way undersized. Make sure to post up when you get your drawings back from the engineer.
 

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