body and frame time

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FJ60 Frame

I haven't taken the time to do a build thread yet but maybe this condessed version would be helpful. Actually, this may show something of the "worst case scenario" someone might encounter when going down the road of attacking a frame in the spirit of rust control and prevention. Being in MN, and driving this daily, we up in the Northland are more than qualified to talk about rust!

I bought this 87 FJ60 from a buddy. The body is in pretty decent shape, but as I found upon further inspection, the frame was not so good. "Further inspection" was facilitated via the very simple means of seperating body from frame in a residential garage without proper equipment or training. I work in an office and type reports and stuff. "Lefty loosy, righty tight" is the extent of my mechanical knowledge. But, I digress. Suffice it to say I got a little carried away. My lack of knowledge proved to be an asset. Anyone in his right might wouldn't have done this!

The following pictures sort of illustrate the story...

Guy buys truck
Guy takes top off and looks closely at frame
Guy can't find enough good metal to weld to
Guy makes frame small enough to fit in recycle bin
Guy shells out the big bucks to get a new frame
Guy gets frame sand blasted, then does the full POR-15 process
Guy buys HFS suspension from CCOT (great guys to work with!)
Guys gets carried away and hits "BUY NOW" on an H55 too
Guy's marriage gets rocky, but that's another story
Guy gets distracted and learns what's inside an engine
Guy makes engine look pretty with all new jewelry
Guy forgets to put the smog stuff back on
Stuff goes back together pretty well
Guy lifts body and puts back on new chassis
Truck starts on first pull
Guy puts doors and stuff back on and neighbors cheer
Guy does all this in 12 weeks, while working full time
Guy is still paying for this all!

1.webp


2.webp


3.webp


4.webp


5.webp
 
Lillopad said:
The following pictures sort of illustrate the story...

Guy buys truck
Guy takes top off and looks closely at frame
Guy can't find enough good metal to weld to
Guy makes frame small enough to fit in recycle bin
Guy shells out the big bucks to get a new frame
Guy gets frame sand blasted, then does the full POR-15 process
Guy buys HFS suspension from CCOT (great guys to work with!)
Guys gets carried away and hits "BUY NOW" on an H55 too
Guy's marriage gets rocky, but that's another story
Guy gets distracted and learns what's inside an engine
Guy makes engine look pretty with all new jewelry
Guy forgets to put the smog stuff back on
Stuff goes back together pretty well
Guy lifts body and puts back on new chassis
Truck starts on first pull
Guy puts doors and stuff back on and neighbors cheer
Guy does all this in 12 weeks, while working full time
Guy is still paying for this all!
Click to expand...

What a story! Greek tragedy meets and North American ending where the hero is carried away on the shoulders of the peasants...
It had me laughing, crying, cheering all at the same time. I can't wait for the movie to come out!
What was the significance of the doors getting put back on and the cheers from the peasant neighbors? Closure?

Joking aside, you did a hell of a job. Tough decisions, but it looks like you powered through and did it the way that was right for you.

When you said 'new' frame, did you mean 'new used' or 'brand new'. How much did it cost?
 
Slow Left said:
Does "boxing in" mean welding on new plates of steel over compromised parts of the frame? Is this an issue since as an end result, the frame is now thicker than the original dimensions?

Could "boxing in" also mean welding on new plates of steele over areas where the was no steele in an effort to provide additional support, but at the risk of covering up access to some component, like the ability to remove the gas tank, in this case...?

When you refer to the C channel area, which part of the frame does that refer to? Is it shown here on this picture (see below)?

thanks,
Click to expand...

What you are describing in the first paragraph is plating. It could be an issue depending on where it is done, and how. Usually it will work out better than a gaping hole though.

Boxing a frame means you have an open section of frame that you are closing off. If you think of C channel, it is only 3 sides, a C if you will. Boxing it in means you add the fourth side to it making it a closed rectangle.
If you look under your rear wheel wells you will see the boxed frame arch upwards, once it turns back down it is no longer boxed, it is a C channel.
 
essar5 said:
What you are describing in the first paragraph is plating. It could be an issue depending on where it is done, and how. Usually it will work out better than a gaping hole though.

Boxing a frame means you have an open section of frame that you are closing off. If you think of C channel, it is only 3 sides, a C if you will. Boxing it in means you add the fourth side to it making it a closed rectangle.
If you look under your rear wheel wells you will see the boxed frame arch upwards, once it turns back down it is no longer boxed, it is a C channel.
Click to expand...

Understood. Thanks for the clarification. I'll take a look and see how boxing might affect dropping the tank.

Another observation, but it appears that originally, the frame rails that run along either side are each a single piece; the must have been heated up and bent to make those arches. Otherwise, they would have vertical welds, right? I can't see how, in patching one of these frames up, it would possible to avoid a vertical weld, unless one relies exclusively on plating.

EDIT: 45* welds? Is that a better option than vertical welds?

The decision to patch/fix up existing, rusted frame versus buying a newer-used or brand-new one seems to be complicated decision. Time-money trade-off versus expected lifetime.
 
Last edited:
Lillopad,

great cleanup post, but a guy will run screaming seeing that powder red, dead frame under a body!

My frame is clean compared to that oxide pile frame - wow, good work.

I cleaned up my frame with the body still on during a 2" body lift and I am glad I did. Did my own hi-speed wiring brushing and covered with Rust Bullet.

I have pulled my PS rear inner C channel off (under gas tank) and below is a pic of the DS C channel pending removal. I cut the inner channel in half and ground/drilled the rivets out, then cleaned the rust out and painted, with 2 layers of Rust Bullet and 1 layer of Rust Bullet Shell black. My build thread that covers this more is in my sig.

When uglyoinker will make me a rear bumper (and things), he will box those two C channels for more strength. Will need to weld nuts on the inside for body mount holders and shackle mount points. Nesting those C channels gave strength, but they corrode something awful.

Notice in the pic 1, how the inner C channel is bowed outward due to the rust between the 2 C channels.
Pic 2, the pulled PS channel painted. Notice the "painted black" puck in the upper right. That is the 2" lift and it gives alot of room between the frame and the body. Just pulled my tank last week and literally fell out without a problem. No need for the space provided by the C channel empty side.

dougbert

Frame C Channel rust.webp


PS Cleaned C channel.webp
 
Last edited:
norsk said:
great thread, but a guy will run screaming seeing that powder red, dead frame!

My frame is clean compared to that oxide pile frame - wow, good work.

I cleaned up my frame with the body still on during a 2" body lift and I am glad I did. Did my own hi-speed wiring brushing and covered with Rust Bullet.

I have pulled my PS rear inner C channel off (under gas tank) and below is a pic of the DS C channel pending removal. I cut the inner channel in half and ground/drilled the rivets out, then cleaned the rust out and painted.

Notice in the pic 1, how the inner C channel is bowed outward due to the rust between the 2 C channels.
Pic 2, the pulled PS channel painted

dougbert
Click to expand...

I see. Thanks for the picture. I wonder why Toyota used C channels there instead of a boxed style. Maybe the C channel area doesn't need to carry as much weight.

Good to know you can remove those C-channel areas with the body still on. I'll look into doing that and treating as much as I can while the body is still on.

I'm wondering if this approach might work. Is it possible to remove a single body mount at a time, treat the area around on the frame and body where the mount meets, and then install a new body mount? Do this one at a time with the body still on?
In other words, does one have to remove brake lines etc. in order to remove body mounts and expose the mating surfaces for treatment?
 
norsk said:
Notice in the pic 1, how the inner C channel is bowed outward due to the rust between the 2 C channels.
Pic 2, the pulled PS channel painted

dougbert
Click to expand...

What did you use (and steps in the procedure...you mentioned wire brush) to treat those C-channels. Looks like POR-15...

EDIT: Nevermind. Just saw you used Rust Bullet
 
Slow Left said:
What did you use (and steps in the procedure...you mentioned wire brush) to treat those C-channels. Looks like POR-15...

EDIT: Nevermind. Just saw you used Rust Bullet
Click to expand...

I got a DeWalt grinder for $59.00 from HomeDepot
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-4...inder-with-One-Touch-Guard-DWE4011/203574137#

I can put a wire brush head, a grinder disc, a cutting disc, flapper head, etc on it.

wire cup brush I use: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...h_wire+cup+brush_-1_-1&keyword=wire+cup+brush

ON the tough rust I used the grinder disc (after getting no where, using the brush for far too long) to get the stuff down THEN used the brush to clean up.

Cutter to cut the inner C channel down the middle, and grinder to grind down the rivets, drill to drill a hole in the center of the rivets, finally a punch to knock the rivets out.
 
Slow Left said:
I'm wondering if this approach might work. Is it possible to remove a single body mount at a time, treat the area around on the frame and body where the mount meets, and then install a new body mount? Do this one at a time with the body still on?
In other words, does one have to remove brake lines etc. in order to remove body mounts and expose the mating surfaces for treatment?
Click to expand...

I cleaned up all my mounts, but you can't do a single mount at a time. But you can do like I did (and the other MUD'er I got the idea from - his link in my thread) you lift one entire SIDE of the rig and do things on that side, then when that is done, move to the other side.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=8758133&postcount=114

links to my post with the best pic of that. I used a Hi-Lift jack on the rear wheel well (Add a 2x4 to spread the load) removed old pucks, et al, clean and treated the mounts and put in new 2" - all documented near the above post (follow the link in the very upper right of the page to go to the surrounding posts)

After the 2" lift was install THEN I did the rest of the frame. Most of it is very accessible then.
BTW I had lumber between the frame and the body, so as to NOT rely on only the jack

I did not have a building nor equipment to pull the body off, and then do the frame. Nor time. Little here, there a little work is how I am doing this. And yes, the rig is in a field covered by tarps and now a parachute for heat retention when I am under it. It is warm while the snow is outside. Oh well, my second teenage years, but with an old body

dougbert
 
Last edited:
norsk said:
I got a DeWalt grinder for $59.00 from HomeDepot
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-4...inder-with-One-Touch-Guard-DWE4011/203574137#

I can put a wire brush head, a grinder disc, a cutting disc, flapper head, etc on it.

wire cup brush I use: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...h_wire+cup+brush_-1_-1&keyword=wire+cup+brush

ON the tough rust I used the grinder disc (after getting no where, using the brush for far too long) to get the stuff down THEN used the brush to clean up.

Cutter to cut the inner C channel down the middle, and grinder to grind down the rivets, drill to drill a hole in the center of the rivets, finally a punch to knock the rivets out.
Click to expand...

Cool, thx for the details. I just so happen to have a DeWalt Disc grinder. I've also used a Milwaukee cordless drill with wire brush for surface rust/cutting, but rpms much lower than disc grinder...


Yeah, I went to your build link and saw what you've been working on. That's really impressive. Gonna run great when you're finish.

EDIT: just saw your response above, thx/
 
Last edited:
Follow up to question above, and hopefully helpful to the original request for input...

The frame I bought was used. Got it from CruiserParts.com out of NH. It was in pretty good shape but I needed to do a little work to remove an extra cross member the PO must have had under there holding up some modded drive line. Also, I got an FJ62 frame which is a drop in for the FJ60. Just had to open up the motor mount holes to accommodate about a 1/2" difference in overall length. The 62 frame is an upgrade in terms of strength. If a guy needs to replace the frame, I recommend going this route. I don't mind sharing costs on this... $750 for the frame and another $700 to get it here. The alternative was a heck of a lot of work rebuilding the old one. I can fab and weld reasonably well, but not to that extent.

I like the POR-15 route. Clean it mechanically (sand blast or wheel it or whatever is necessary) then clean it with their Marine Clean. Do the acid treat next. Once rinsed and thoroughly, completely bone dry, apply the POR-15. After second coat and sufficient dry time, apply the Tie Coat Primer. Then, lay on or spray on whatever final coat you want. I used some semi gloss Rustoleum rattle can because I can touch it up any time without having to source anything special.

The true test came after reassembly when I had a bad leak in a brake line. The fluid cut through the Rustoleum and it bubbled up in a few minutes. The primer wasn't affected at all. So far the POR does seem bullet proof. I am driving this, even in the salt of MN winters. I make it a habit to pressure wash the entire underside weekly. So far so good.

I seriously considered powder coating but was concerned about mods down the road. Drill a hole and you "crack" the coating, potentially allowing corrosion to begin at the exposed area.

And yes, the neighbors cheer went up because I was done. The place was looking like a scrap yard for awhile!

When we thaw out and Spring comes again, phase 2 kicks in. The body comes back off again for some body work. The engine bay is so simple I can get that body off in a few hours this time. I'll give the frame another once over just to make sure we stay rust free. I may box in the rear c channels but I am waiting to see how the POR holds up.

Regarding the inside of the frame, I am researching a product called Fluid Film. It looks interesting and easy to apply. I'll probably give it a shot in the Spring and will report out on findings later.

I wish you the best of luck with your project!

Is there a community for wives of Cruiser addicts? My lovely bride of 25 years seems to need someone to talk to about all this. Poor girl doesn't understand. My new hubs showed up today and she met me at the door giving me "the look"!
 
Lillopad said:
Follow up to question above, and hopefully helpful to the original request for input...

The frame I bought was used. Got it from CruiserParts.com out of NH. It was in pretty good shape but I needed to do a little work to remove an extra cross member the PO must have had under there holding up some modded drive line. Also, I got an FJ62 frame which is a drop in for the FJ60. Just had to open up the motor mount holes to accommodate about a 1/2" difference in overall length. The 62 frame is an upgrade in terms of strength. If a guy needs to replace the frame, I recommend going this route. I don't mind sharing costs on this... $750 for the frame and another $700 to get it here. The alternative was a heck of a lot of work rebuilding the old one. I can fab and weld reasonably well, but not to that extent.

I like the POR-15 route. Clean it mechanically (sand blast or wheel it or whatever is necessary) then clean it with their Marine Clean. Do the acid treat next. Once rinsed and thoroughly, completely bone dry, apply the POR-15. After second coat and sufficient dry time, apply the Tie Coat Primer. Then, lay on or spray on whatever final coat you want. I used some semi gloss Rustoleum rattle can because I can touch it up any time without having to source anything special.

The true test came after reassembly when I had a bad leak in a brake line. The fluid cut through the Rustoleum and it bubbled up in a few minutes. The primer wasn't affected at all. So far the POR does seem bullet proof. I am driving this, even in the salt of MN winters. I make it a habit to pressure wash the entire underside weekly. So far so good.

I seriously considered powder coating but was concerned about mods down the road. Drill a hole and you "crack" the coating, potentially allowing corrosion to begin at the exposed area.

And yes, the neighbors cheer went up because I was done. The place was looking like a scrap yard for awhile!

When we thaw out and Spring comes again, phase 2 kicks in. The body comes back off again for some body work. The engine bay is so simple I can get that body off in a few hours this time. I'll give the frame another once over just to make sure we stay rust free. I may box in the rear c channels but I am waiting to see how the POR holds up.

Regarding the inside of the frame, I am researching a product called Fluid Film. It looks interesting and easy to apply. I'll probably give it a shot in the Spring and will report out on findings later.

I wish you the best of luck with your project!

Is there a community for wives of Cruiser addicts? My lovely bride of 25 years seems to need someone to talk to about all this. Poor girl doesn't understand. My new hubs showed up today and she met me at the door giving me "the look"!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the follow up and the original post. Good info. You should consider a second career as a writer.

Only recommendation on resolving misunderstandings for girlfriends/wives of addicts would be to tint the rear and back windows as dark as you can, flip the rear seat down, throw in a couple of sleeping bags and go for weekend trips to the beaches, mountains, deserts... Clean the soul. Through the shared experience, both of you will appreciate what you now have (what the Land Cruiser has to offer you) and that so many people miss out on. Once she trusts the Land Cruiser, she will appreciate the effort you put into it.
 
I will have to figure out how to post pics here, still new at this. I am going to box in the back frame rails from the shock mounts back to diagonal gusset approximately and stiffen rear channel as well. Also from the transmission mounts back I am going to add 11 ga. to the inside of the rails as it is thin and perforated here.
I just pulled the 2H tonight, and will take pics as I go. I have 2 front spring bushings still to cut off, then the frame is buck naked.
 
86HJ60 said:
I will have to figure out how to post pics here, still new at this. I am going to box in the back frame rails from the shock mounts back to diagonal gusset approximately and stiffen rear channel as well. Also from the transmission mounts back I am going to add 11 ga. to the inside of the rails as it is thin and perforated here.
I just pulled the 2H tonight, and will take pics as I go. I have 2 front spring bushings still to cut off, then the frame is buck naked.
Click to expand...

To post pictures, click the 'go advanced' button below the quick reply message box.
Then you will see a 'Additional Options' box below the 'Reply to Thread' box in the advanced settings.
Click the 'Manage Attachments' button and a pop up box will appear.
The picture you wish to post must be saved to the computer you are using.
To upload the picture, click a 'browse' button, select the picture file, then click the 'Open' button.
You can load up to 5 pictures to upload on a single post.
Once you have selected the pictures you wish to upload for that post, click the 'Upload' button.
Then close the pop-up box.
Now, you should see the names of the picture files listed under the 'Attach Files' area in the 'Additional Options'.
After you have finished writing what you wish to write in the Message box in the "Reply to Thread' window, click 'Submit Reply".
Voila!

Also, forgot to mention, if you wish to write a response directly to someone else's post, click the 'quote' button at the bottom of that post you are interested in replying to. Then, in the message box, continue writing after the second
and when you submit the response, it will first show the original post you are responding to and then your response.
Click to expand...
 
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