body and frame time

[86HJ60]

Hello all. I have my 86 HJ60 stripped down to the bones. Time to do rust repair and boxing in the back 60 % (I'm in Ontario). Do's and don't s? I figured to use 12 ga, for frame boxing, enough or better to go 3/16"? Also intend to invert frame to clean out the s__t inside. Whats best to stop the rust from within? Want to avoid mistakes before I make them and kill 100% of rust.

Also beginning on the body. Looking for a current source for cowl top ends, and possible floor panels. Where is the best place to source quality panels?

Thanks in advance eh,
J.

 

[essar5]

You will want to get as close to the original frame thickness as possible, I believe that it is 3/16". Try to avoid vertical welds, they will crack easily. Also, be careful about the rear C channel area, if you ever need to drop your tank it will be very difficult when it is boxed in.

 

[norsk]

just had a thread on cowl in the past week

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/466010-rust-front-cowl-windshield-wiper-panel-repair.html

dougbert

 

[norsk]

You will want to get as close to the original frame thickness as possible, I believe that it is 3/16". Try to avoid vertical welds, they will crack easily. Also, be careful about the rear C channel area, if you ever need to drop your tank it will be very difficult when it is boxed in.

Unless you have a 2" body lift. If you do then the tank literally falls out since there is more room. Just did that last week

dougbert

 

[Slow Left]

Also intend to invert frame to clean out the s__t inside. Whats best to stop the rust from within? Want to avoid mistakes before I make them and kill 100% of rust.

What does 'inverting the frame' mean? What does that process consist of?

 

[essar5]

I took it as standing the frame up so the water and dirt washes out and down the frame. Would be kind of hard to invert one, even harder to undo and use

 

[Slow Left]

Yeah, I'm looking out a couple years and wondering what approach I'm going to take with a frame-off rebuild. Just looking at it today, with the body and engine and everything on the frame, I'm wondering if it would be worth it to try and treat the inside of the frame by spraying something into the holes of the frame...

Is there a way to completely and definitively 'redo' a frame so that it will never rust if the frame is completely removed from the rest of the vehicle?

I wonder (this is a left-field kind of thought) if anyone is experimenting with new materials to cast new frames with. Use the old frame to make a mold, then pour/cast a new frame with some sort of carbon-based or super lightweight and strong material.

 

[Big Cruiser Guy]

Slow Left: Is there a way to completely and definitively 'redo' a frame so that it will never rust if the frame is completely removed from the rest of the vehicle?

I went overboard on my frame. It was sandblasted, then galvanized, then powdercoated. I have kind of a thing about avoiding rust.

 

[Slow Left]

Slow Left: Is there a way to completely and definitively 'redo' a frame so that it will never rust if the frame is completely removed from the rest of the vehicle?

I went overboard on my frame. It was sandblasted, then galvanized, then powdercoated. I have kind of a thing about avoiding rust.

Did it work? How long ago did you do that (what is the clock on the current lifetime)?

After sandblasting, did you treat the bare steel with some sort of chemical? Or is it standard practice to accept that sandblasting mechanically removes all iron oxide.

So galvanizing is some sort of plating procedure with a metal that won't oxidize (easily), right? Like, say, nickel?

And what does powder coating do?

What about inside the frame?

I have a feeling that with the frame off, over doing it is the only way to go if you want the vehicle to last another lifetime...

 

[Big Cruiser Guy]

Did it work? How long ago did you do that (what is the clock on the current lifetime)?

After sandblasting, did you treat the bare steel with some sort of chemical? Or is it standard practice to accept that sandblasting mechanically removes all iron oxide.

So galvanizing is some sort of plating procedure with a metal that won't oxidize (easily), right? Like, say, nickel?

And what does powder coating do?

What about inside the frame?

I have a feeling that with the frame off, over doing it is the only way to go if you want the vehicle to last another lifetime...

It's an 86 FJ60 that I've owned since 1992 (I think).
The frame was done about 3 years ago.

Yes, the sandblasting gets rid of pretty much everything. The galvanizing rustproofs (like a roofing nail) The entire frame was dipped into a vat, so it gets everywhere.
The powdercoating is magnetic sprayed on as a powder, then baked solid.

 

[Slow Left]

It's an 86 FJ60 that I've owned since 1992 (I think).
The frame was done about 3 years ago.

Yes, the sandblasting gets rid of pretty much everything. The galvanizing rustproofs (like a roofing nail) The entire frame was dipped into a vat, so it gets everywhere.
The powdercoating is magnetic sprayed on as a powder, then baked solid.

Thanks. Yeah, I did a quick search and saw some neat results with galvanizing. Looks like you did it the right way.

Cheers.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

One of the best ways I have found to get every last bit of rust off a frame is Acid dipping. See if there is a company in your area doing that. It works incredibly well.

 

[Slow Left]

Acid dipping? Sounds like a '70s thing...

Yeah, several posts have mentioned using phosphoric acid to treat surface rust instead of using POR 15. I'm convinced enough that next summer I'm going to try the phosphoric acid and let NAPA keep their money in order to treat frame/body rust in place.

With the frame off, maybe sandblast, acid dip, galvanize (if you can still see straight after the acid dip...), then powder coat (if you can remember what you were doing in the first place...)...

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Its commonly done on car restorations and frames. This is not something that is done at home you need to take to a specialist, just like Galvanizing.

 

[Slow Left]

Its commonly done on car restorations and frames. This is not something that is done at home you need to take to a specialist, just like Galvanizing.

Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

The '70s reference was supposed to be a joke off of acid 'dropping'...

For sure, actually dipping the whole frame in acid must be an industrial endeavor. I'll look into seeing if anyone in the area does this. Sure to be enough demand given how much salt is put down on the roads...

 

[Zack1978]

Slow Left: Is there a way to completely and definitively 'redo' a frame so that it will never rust if the frame is completely removed from the rest of the vehicle?

I went overboard on my frame. It was sandblasted, then galvanized, then powdercoated. I have kind of a thing about avoiding rust.

How did you get the powdercoat to stick to the galvanized metal? I have read that it will not stick. In fact I have read that paint even has a hard time sticking to galvanized metal.
What prep steps are need to paint a galvanized frame?

Zack

 

[86HJ60]

What I meant by inverting the frame is that I have a 3 ton monorail electric hoist with about 13 feet under hook. My frame is about half full of crumbs flakes etc. I intend to hoist frame by motor mount area, and tap out all the s__t out of there. Then I will see what's left. The main tube looks like 12 ga. (or whats left of it) but the inner frame closure is quite thin. The front is in better shape than the back due to self oiling (leaks) etc.

 

[Big Cruiser Guy]

How did you get the powdercoat to stick to the galvanized metal? I have read that it will not stick. In fact I have read that paint even has a hard time sticking to galvanized metal.
What prep steps are need to paint a galvanized frame?

Zack

I didn't do the powdercoating myself, so I don't know if there's anything special that needed to be done. It was done through Mudrak's shop in Sonoma (707-292-509). Give him a ring and maybe he can refer you to the coater who did the work and help with more info.

 

[Slow Left]

What I meant by inverting the frame is that I have a 3 ton monorail electric hoist with about 13 feet under hook. My frame is about half full of crumbs flakes etc. I intend to hoist frame by motor mount area, and tap out all the s__t out of there. Then I will see what's left. The main tube looks like 12 ga. (or whats left of it) but the inner frame closure is quite thin. The front is in better shape than the back due to self oiling (leaks) etc.

Are you going to post pictures of the process? I'd be interested in seeing how you approach it.

From the sound of it, you're going to be doing some cutting and patching on the frame itself, not just removing surface rust, dipping and and coating.

 

[Slow Left]

You will want to get as close to the original frame thickness as possible, I believe that it is 3/16". Try to avoid vertical welds, they will crack easily. Also, be careful about the rear C channel area, if you ever need to drop your tank it will be very difficult when it is boxed in.

Does "boxing in" mean welding on new plates of steel over compromised parts of the frame? Is this an issue since as an end result, the frame is now thicker than the original dimensions?

Could "boxing in" also mean welding on new plates of steele over areas where the was no steele in an effort to provide additional support, but at the risk of covering up access to some component, like the ability to remove the gas tank, in this case...?

When you refer to the C channel area, which part of the frame does that refer to? Is it shown here on this picture (see below)?

thanks,