MH_Stevens said:
My advice, you've got it apart.. redo it right. Replace felt, seals, bearings etc..
Was there no lock washer in there to hold the thrust nut and lock nut from turning, or was it just FUBAR?
Blown Front Wheel Bearing 2nd Day Wheelin'
- Thread starter MH_Stevens
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My advice, you've got it apart.. redo it right. Replace felt, seals, bearings etc..
Was there no lock washer in there to hold the thrust nut and lock nut from turning, or was it just FUBAR?
Sounds like a previous hack forgot to install the hub nut locking washer or reused the same exact tabs and those tabs broke off allowing the nuts to back off. And the wobble of a loose hub would whip the inner axle around enough to trash the inner seal.
I personally would drift out the races to get a real good look at them, that's hard to do with them installed in the hub.
I personally would drift out the races to get a real good look at them, that's hard to do with them installed in the hub.
Sounds like the hack also failed to put the snap ring on the end of the stub axle. This snap ring should have prevented you from pulling off the drive plate that had the 6 little nuts/cone washers. You've had a seriously crappy hack in there and I'd replace the knuckle bearings and races, the felt/rubber seal, etc in a traditional full knuckle seal replacement and repack operation. Then, I'd put the other side up on jacks and do the same over there. Odds are good you'll have the same failure on another trail and maybe not be so lucky. Take a good long look at the 4 studs that hold the steering arm on the bottom of both knuckles, also. That's when you're reassembling.
DougM
DougM
IdahoDoug said:
Yes, I would tell Dan you need EVERYTHING from the felt wipers out for both sides INCLUDING all bearings and races. Don't skip one step and replace it all.
- Thread starter
- #25
elmariachi said:
Yes, the lock washer had not had the tags bent over to lock the nut. I PM'd Dan and told him to look here and to send me "everything" I need. I wasn't specific as you as I didn't know what I needed. I'm sure he'll send all. Someone said he was on vaction? Is that so?
MH_Stevens said:
He said he was going to Lake Powell. Make sure you clarify that you want all the bearings...sometimes he assumes you are reusing yours, but based on your description of the hacking that has taken place you likely need to just pony up and make 'er like new.
yes it is. He's at lake powell.
I'd be more concerned about the flange/stub axle interface. I've seen one from an axle with a bad bushing. The flange and stub axle were trashed.
- Thread starter
- #30
landtank said:
By flangs/stubb axel interface do you mean the short axel on the outside and the flange with the six cone washers? There is no wear there. I will pull the face plate of of the diff and report what I see inside. On the drive home with the loose wheel bearing there was no unusual noise and no unusual feel in the steering, and as I see no damage I am hopeful that no big damage has been done. I DID tell Dan to give me NEW bearings and not just seals. The bearing looks new and as it is the opinion here that this wheel had been worked on maybe the service and new bearings had been done but just not the lock nut done up right. I do know all the service was done by a Toyota dealer (Vallejo, San Fransisco).
- Thread starter
- #31
PS
When will Dan be back? Should I wait on him? How much more will it cost me to go to my local dealer?
When will Dan be back? Should I wait on him? How much more will it cost me to go to my local dealer?
If you are in a hurry most of the gusy at american know to take care of the mud forum members.
Dan is there boss so they usually do. They might not know exactly what you need though and therein lies the problem.....
So they are as effective as the local stealer at a lower price. the advantage of waiting for "Pappy" ( think that one will fit??) is He will know what you need.
Dave
Dan is there boss so they usually do. They might not know exactly what you need though and therein lies the problem.....
So they are as effective as the local stealer at a lower price. the advantage of waiting for "Pappy" ( think that one will fit??) is He will know what you need.
Dave
- Thread starter
- #33
When you guys say I need do the birfield job, does that mean to rebuild the ball and socket type joint between the short and long axel?
MH_Stevens said:
You need to inspect both joints for excess play and wear. If they are tight and have been quiet in the truck (no clicking or clunking) you may be alright in that area. What is involved in this rebuild has been covered repeatedly here on Mud:
1. Disassemble everything and remove the axle;
2. Clean everything including that joint;
3. Inspect/and consider disassembling that joint for cleaning and further inspection;
4. Reassemble with all new seals, gaskets and bearings.
If you decide to buy all these parts at your local dealer vs. Dan, you are going to pay at least $150-200 more.
Jim
p.s. I just saw a post from Dan in another thread. PM him, he may be on Mud.
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MH_Stevens said:
Micheal, you need to step it up chief. You've been around long enough that we shouldn't be having to spoon feed you like a newbie. Everything you need to know about a front axle service has been cover here. Some good folks have spent a lot of time on detailing out the what to's and what you need. Dig in and do a little reading and educate yourself, otherwise you're going to make a mistake and just have to tear it all apart again.
Have you got an FSM. If not, you need that. The pictures are worth a 1000 words.
Rookie2
Rookie2 said:
Rookie2, I agree. Michael, Several Mudders have been encouraging you to get a factory service manual for weeks (since your post about it on June 29th). It only took mine 3 days to arrive from Toyota Publications. And you have posted in at least one thread about steering knuckles and birfields:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=53128
as if you knew all about them, though your comment was inaccurate. Then you go out and trash yours and seem surprised that it failed. We are glad to help you, but start by helping yourself.
- Thread starter
- #38
The FSM and the bits for a front axel service will arrive from Dan on Monday. Having completed the disassembly and cleaning I can give a report on damage found. As we know from the unsecured lock nut someone had been in there before I bough this truck so I don't know if the damage I see I caused. There are a few spots of heat damage on the outside socket of the birfield - a few spots of blueing. None of the blueing is on the ball bearing sockets so this seem not to matter. The birf is smoth without any play. The bottom of the knuckel casting - the big iron housing this all sits in has worn away at the outside bottom. Once again this is just part of the casting shell and touches nothing so I think means no harm. The diff, because of its well shape was still full of oil despite the internal seal blowing. There were iron filings on the magnet and a little in the oil. No more than 1/4 teaspoon max so I'm hoping for minimal wear there. I thought the diff had a view plate to remove but I find it does not so I can not look inside.
MH_Stevens said:
The blue heat spots on the outside of the birf are a result of the manufacturing process IIRC. I know mine had them and I posted a question/concern about it when I was doing my front, to find out it was normal.
Rookie2
>There are a few spots of heat damage on the outside socket of the birfield - a few spots of blueing.
This is not damage. We see that a lot on birfields.
> The bottom of the knuckel casting - the big iron housing this all sits in has worn away at the outside bottom.
Picture will help but also sounds normal. The casting is machined to accept the birfield. This is right around the hole where the trunin bearing goes.
> The diff, because of its well shape was still full of oil despite the internal seal blowing. There were iron filings on the magnet and a little in the oil. No more than 1/4 teaspoon max so I'm hoping for minimal wear there.
1/4 teaspoon of oil or shavings? How fine. Some 'fuss' is normal, but not large chunks.
No inspection plate on the diff.
What shape is the spindles and bearings in?
This is not damage. We see that a lot on birfields.
> The bottom of the knuckel casting - the big iron housing this all sits in has worn away at the outside bottom.
Picture will help but also sounds normal. The casting is machined to accept the birfield. This is right around the hole where the trunin bearing goes.
> The diff, because of its well shape was still full of oil despite the internal seal blowing. There were iron filings on the magnet and a little in the oil. No more than 1/4 teaspoon max so I'm hoping for minimal wear there.
1/4 teaspoon of oil or shavings? How fine. Some 'fuss' is normal, but not large chunks.
No inspection plate on the diff.
What shape is the spindles and bearings in?