BIRF / front axle maintenence questions

[Cobra Jet]

I've read so many tech related and individual accounts of the front axle & BIRF maintenence on these FJ80's it's making me head spin!

I have not seen a question as such:

After COMPLETELY servicing the front axle on an FJ80 or FJ80Z- meaning replacing all maintenance related components, repacking w/ grease, refilling w/fluid, examining and/or replacing any damaged components -

How long will such a "fix" last on an FJ80 or FJ80Z that is only daily driven?

Is the front axle on these vehicles just problematic and a poor design?

OR

Is BIRF/front axle maintenance more common on rigs that are constantly seeing trail, climbing, mudding, or offroad use?

It just seems that the BIRF fixes and/or maintenance is not only necessary on all FJ80's or FJ80Z's, but seems to be a very time consuming & costly process, that one would only HOPE that the time, $ and fix holds up for many more miles before having to do it all over again.

Why did Toyota go with such a front axle/suspension design on the LC and not use the same type of design that was available on the 4Runners?

Also, what is the total cost for all required parts needed to do such a maintenence procedure for a home mechanic? I know the Dealer will just bend everyone over backwards and most of us here are mechanically inclined enough to save the $$$ by completing the jobs ourselves.

 

[cruiserdan]

It is really a service as opposed to a "fix" and should be done every 60-90 thousand miles. It currently costs a board member about 207 bucks for OEM parts and another 112 bucks for wheel bearings, if desired.

 

[Biff]

most of the above questions can be answered by doing a search. But I'll answer your first question, the maintenance on the birf. should last a min. of 60,000 miles. cost is about $300 with Cdan. Also I would say the most common items that fails is the inner axle seal. I just had to replaced mine.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Thanks for the replies fellas, always appreciated.

What is the most common "failure" after 60k miles that causes the need for another service interval?

Is it the break down of the seals? Or breakdown of the fluid/grease?

Is actual axle/BIRF replacement only needed if the hard parts are scored/damaged?

 

[JerryLX450]

about 207 bucks and another 112 bucks for wheel bearings.

$207 + $112= $319
Dan, First of all im sorry im not trying to compare the price between who and what. Also I remember you mention “Sale without profit is just a Gift” you damn right about that. But what im saying here how come the http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/knucklebearing.htm and http://www.marlincrawler.com/80series.html cost less than the one you posted above? And yes included with 4 wheel bearing. Are those non OEM maybe? Don’t get it wrong I don’t mind paying more $ as long as good quality such as OEM parts.

 

[Biff]

$207 + $112= $319

Don't you know Dan's items are gold plated thats why they are more expensive.

Seriously though, those items are not OEM so you pay for the good stuff, I would rather spend a few more bucks for oem and make the part last, besides Dan, needs to pay his newly installed DSL line- give the guy a break will ya

 

[Riad]

Marlin and MAF are after market products. Dan's got real Toyota stuff. I compare Dan's price with my local POS dealer price and I see the HUGE difference.

 

[tarbe]

What is the most common "failure" after 60k miles that causes the need for another service interval?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say it is the axle seals...when they go south they allow diff lube into the birf cavity. Grease gets contaminated and the whole mess starts oozing out past the knuckle wipers and out the trunnion cap studs...yuk!

 

[Rookie2]

Thanks for the replies fellas, always appreciated.

What is the most common "failure" after 60k miles that causes the need for another service interval? Is it the break down of the seals? Or breakdown of the fluid/grease?

Yes. Inner axle seal fails, allowing cross contamination of the grease in the knuckle and the diff. fluid, significant seepage past the wiper seals and washing out the grease contained in the birfield. Lack of grease and lubrication inside the birfield leads to grooves being worn into the bell, so they end up needing to be replaced.

Is actual axle/BIRF replacement only needed if the hard parts are scored/damaged?

Yes.

I'm not sure why exactly Toyota chose this design. I assume that in their opinion's it was the best to use considering all things... Full Time 4wd, dependability and sturdiness under hard wheeling conditions.. etc.

Seems like most of the respected opinions around here, is that it's a good and preferred design for one of the best off road production vehicles made. For many of the mall cruiser/soccer mom type owners, it's a little hard to explain the necessity of doing this maintenance when hard wheel is not what the vehicle is routinely exposed to. Those folks don't need the 4wd, and they don't understand why there is some addition maintenance that comes with it.

 

[Hayes]

Which brings to mind a question I've had...

What are the appreciable differences between a birfield-rapezza joint and a double cardon (cardan?) cross?
I know HOW they are different, but what are the performance, durability, reliability differences? If any? Do Heep drivers encounter a point where they need to do a major service on their cardons? Any major overhauls or replacements?

I know that most trucks out there have the cardon joints, including Heeps. I only see birfields on (older) Cruisers and Rovers (and wimpy little birfields in Subarus and other AWD cars).

Maybe Cruisers have birfields because they look much cooler than a cardon joint.

Hayes

 

[flintknapper]

. For many of the mall cruiser/soccer mom type owners, it's a little hard to explain the necessity of doing this maintenance when hard wheel is not what the vehicle is routinely exposed to. .

This fits the description of my Cruiser when I bought it.
It had just over 100k on the clock and had been a "soccer mom" vehicle. The front end had never been touched except for brakes.. but all was in good condition.

At 120k I decided to do a complete front axle service as a matter of PM.

It is a DD so I wouldn't be surprised to get another 100k or more out of it before another service. For those who do moderate to severe off roading, I would expect less mileage.

Frequent water crossings might shorten the interval even further.

If you can do the work yourself...then its a bargain really.

 

[cary]

$207 + $112= $319
Dan, First of all im sorry im not trying to compare the price between who and what. Also I remember you mention “Sale without profit is just a Gift” you damn right about that. But what im saying here how come the http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/knucklebearing.htm and http://www.marlincrawler.com/80series.html cost less than the one you posted above? And yes included with 4 wheel bearing. Are those non OEM maybe? Don’t get it wrong I don’t mind paying more $ as long as good quality such as OEM parts.

It's called the difference between factory parts and aftermarket. In my book there is no substitute for knowing the part actually meets the factory specs, rather than being sold because it will work.

 

[cruiserdan]

$207 + $112= $319

Toyota's suggested list price is north of 425 bucks........


Yes, it is a lot of money, even at 25 off. But, it is factory stuff and that matters to some people. It matters a lot to me and not because my profession is selling the stuff. It matters becaue there really is a difference in most all Toyota's OEM stuff vs aftermarket. The infrequent exceptions are grey imports from Toyota's OEM vendors.

I bought my 80 new for a whole lot more money than makes sense and I am not going to "cheap-out" on it now..........

Do also remember the original cost of the vehicles when new. Feeding a vehicle with an MSRP of about 50 thousand bucks is not cheap.


D-

 

[Rookie2]

Maybe Cruisers have birfields because they look much cooler than a cardon joint.

I think it has more to do with the Full Time application. Double Cardon's look cool too in the right application... say drive shafts.

 

[Klunky Chris]

in addition to other things, birfields turn *smoother* in turns than a U joint.

turn a Jeep wheel to full lock and go around a turn. the front wheels speed up, then slow down, then speed up. this is when you are going a constant speed. Birfields are much better in this regard.

check your knuckle bearings as well. mine had 3 rollers on each side that were litterally melted at 165K
lack of maintenance on the PO's part , but I've heard the same thing from others. My truck drove MUCH nicer after replacement

 

[baxter650]

Rookie2 is bang on. I have seen more than a few Toyota pu with over 300,000k without any service, part time mind you. I try to repack my birfs at least once a year but i do a lot of water crossings. Way back when i was in trade school we were told that a u joint was only realy good for somthing like 7 or so degrees for the reasons that Klunky Chris stated, just think what goes on in an open knuckle u joint front diff at full lock & full throttle. Toyota made the right move for sure. Dont think for a minute that the closed knuckle guys don't have to do there diffs.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Dan's kit also includes some key things left out of other's kits. He's an 80 expert and the others focus on all 50 odd models of LandCruiser. For instance, Dan includes the $6 inner axle seals that start all the trouble when they wear out whereas a Toyota factory front axle rebuild kit any Toyota mechanic would get to rebuild your front axle does not have this key seal.

The 80 front axle will never need a part replaced other than routine seals, gaskets and bearings if it is properly maintained. By contrast, an independant front axle with CVs and rubber boots is lucky to make it to 100k without boot replacement that also generally causes CV replacement. For a true bush vehicle, the cruiser's closed knuckles are the way to go. You simply maintain it on schedule and drive the heck out of it. With others, there is no maintenance and they get attention only when they break. Guess when they break? Yep, out on the trail where they get the most stress - never in town near a mechanic. Bad approach if you ask me.

DougM