Best Solutions Post flush, Sludge Problem

[cruiserdan]

Rick,

What's the grinding kit for... cleaning off the head/gasket I presume? How could you tell whether or not the head needed to be machined?

If I understand correctly, the replacement gasket is a improvement over stock, and hopefully cures the problem?


Rookie2

Rick explained the purpose, I'll clarify the nomenclature:

There are Two basic gasket sets or kits used in engine repairs. One is a "valve grind set" and the other is an "overhaul set". The valve grind set is also refered to as a "top end" set and the overhaul is sometimes refered to as a "complete" set. As Rick stated the valve grind set consists of the necessary gaskets and seals to remove the head(s) and grind the valves. An overhaul set includes all of the above plus the additional gaskets and seals to do the "bottom end" of the engine. It is important to note that these gasket "sets" sometimes do not have everything you may need to do a particular repair and will likely have some stuff left over when you are finished. Kits are generally cheaper than the sum of the individual parts.

D-

 

[MikeB]

I would have the radiator taken apart and cleaned out if there is any question at all about sludge that might still be in there. Plastic tanks are so common these days that there are many radiator shops that can work on them. I had my '95 (aluminum) radiator rodded out by Hay's Radiators in Phoenix last year for $60. For the price I considered this a good alternative to a new factory radiator ($$$) or aftermarket (questionable fit and quality).

Removing and replacing the radiator is harder than on most vehicles that I have worked on, but I can't see how anyone in their right mind can compare the effort to replace the radiator with the effort to replace the head gasket.

Mike

 

[e9999]

I would have the radiator taken apart and cleaned out if there is any question at all about sludge that might still be in there. Plastic tanks are so common these days that there are many radiator shops that can work on them. I had my '95 (aluminum) radiator rodded out by Hay's Radiators in Phoenix last year for $60. For the price I considered this a good alternative to a new factory radiator ($$$) or aftermarket (questionable fit and quality).

Removing and replacing the radiator is harder than on most vehicles that I have worked on, but I can't see how anyone in their right mind can compare the effort to replace the radiator with the effort to replace the head gasket.

Mike

what does "rodded out" actually imply? some sort of mechanical process?

e

 

[RavenTai]

what does "rodded out" actually imply? some sort of mechanical process?

e

Yep they take one tank off and slide metal rods down the tubes of the radiator knocking loose any foreign matter some also use chemicals (acid?) at the same time, when the plastic tanks first came out no one would work with them shops are getting better at removing and reinstalling plastic tanks now but it is still not as reliable a repair as a all metal radiator that can be re-soldered

 

[e9999]

can't be cheap if you have to take the rad top off...

wondering if one could get rid of the sludge with some sort of surfactant. Maybe even HD rad cleaner...?

E

 

[RavenTai]

I tried Prestone super flush, It did not make a dent in the sludge at all, mine was pretty thin, a primer like layer in the top of the radiator and a few spots around the thermostat, maybe it would work on thicker looser deposits?


I tried both vinegar and soap and water on the deposits in the bottom of the overflow tank neither budged it, seams only mechanical action or lots of direct water flow can get it to move at all.

It’s inert?

 

[landtank]

DougM, I've owned the truck since 38k miles. It was in excellent shape when I purchsed it. I really don't think it had a hard life prior to me getting it.

Removing and replacing the radiator is harder than on most vehicles that I have worked on, but I can't see how anyone in their right mind can compare the effort to replace the radiator with the effort to replace the head gasket.

Mike

If you re-read my post I stated the difficulty of the job and not the effort. Changing out the HG is more work and will take more time but the difficulty of doing the work is not that much more in my opinion. This of course is just to clarify what I wrote and in no way argues my state of mind.

Bottom line- the original HG creates a situation where the engine is less forgiving when it comes to your cooling system's ability to do it's job. If you are SC'd or tow regularly, especially heavy amounts for long distances I'd get the gasket out of there. I'm not saying this to scare anyone, I honestly beleive if you own the truck long enough you will eventually have a failure.

 

[bkgiii]

I've been paying income tax to the wrong damn state.......


I wonder what that shady Bill Richardson has been doing with all of it?

................I can't believe I did that....MEA CULPA! ....and make that 'NM'

 

[Rookie2]

Thanks for the clarification Rick. BTW, I started to read through the HG replacement in the FSM last night. After I got to page 15 or so, I gave up and went to bed. I'd love to see this procedure as an FAQ.

Anyhoo.. to sum up this thread, Dan is not one of the "great ones", but he's from Arizona and has had mulitple HG failures.


Rookie2

 

[krich97]

Hey Photo, don't assume that because the dealer did the service that red and green were never mixed. A dealer mixed mine during a 60k service done right before I purchased the truck. Coolent was a healthy looking red when I inspected it before deciding to buy it. After visiting the dealer (an arrangement worked out with the seller as he had an extended warrantee), and unfortunately a few months later I noticed brown coolent in the overflow - oh yeah and sludge. I had the dealer flush it - which they did for free, but they did refill it with 'Toyota Green' - at least it does not appear mixed but I can see some deposits on the edges of the top of the tubes when I look/feel thru the fill cap. I am watching closely and may drain and flush myself just to check in the not too distant future. Good luck - Krich

 

[landtank]

BY far the biggest PITA is getting the wiring harness out of there. I know that at least one person left it in and removed the intake from the head in the truck. Once I got the harness out it went along quite smoothly. It's a whole bunch of little steps to remove it.

One step I skipped was removing the exhaust. An old habbit of mine is to replace the studs and nuts on the exhaust manifold so I removed them first which allowed me to slide the manifolds up off the exhaust leaving the front cat in place. Didn't need to upset anything in that piece .

 

[CDN_Cruiser]

Can you (safely) use a pressure washer to back flow the system or is that just asking for problems? I'm not talking about 1750psi, but something a bit more dialed back....?

Cheers, Hugh

 

[RavenTai]

Can you (safely) use a pressure washer to back flow the system or is that just asking for problems? I'm not talking about 1750psi, but something a bit more dialed back....?

Cheers, Hugh

Not sure what it would gain? Pressure washer works on velocity only works where the water is moving quickly, you can only direct it to the openings where it will likely damage something, when the water slows down later in the piping it has less flow than just a plain garden hose

 

[Rookie2]

Rick explained the purpose, I'll clarify the nomenclature:

There are Two basic gasket sets or kits used in engine repairs. One is a "valve grind set" and the other is an "overhaul set". The valve grind set is also refered to as a "top end" set and the overhaul is sometimes refered to as a "complete" set. As Rick stated the valve grind set consists of the necessary gaskets and seals to remove the head(s) and grind the valves. An overhaul set includes all of the above plus the additional gaskets and seals to do the "bottom end" of the engine. It is important to note that these gasket "sets" sometimes do not have everything you may need to do a particular repair and will likely have some stuff left over when you are finished. Kits are generally cheaper than the sum of the individual parts.

D-

Thanks Dan. Makes much more since. Does the valve grinding process require a trained hand, or are special assist tools in these kits?


Rookie2

 

[cruiserdan]

Actual grinding and lapping of the valves is best left to the machine shop. The gasket kit is just that, gaskets required to reassemble the engine.

 

[semlin]

Rick, how many hours did the HG actually take you and do you need to get the head shaved if you do it as PM? For a long time I have rejected the idea of doing this as too ambitious and just plain scary going inside the engine. Then I just did a head gasket on an old 60' inline 6 ford because we had nothing to lose given that it was on an old motor that was not worth the $1000 shop quote to do the HG. I'd never done one before but it was no big deal and it took my brother and I maybe 4 hours tops working outside the front of his house on the street using the same approach as you (e.g., forget the valve grind, new seals, etc.. let's just replace the part we are worried about) . We could have done it in one night if we didn't have to get the head shaved. It reminds me a lot of the birf job. Remove a whole bunch of stuff, don't lose anything, clean some stuff up, then put everything back in replacing all the seals, helps if you have some tips (like removing the manifold studs) I know the 80 head would be a lot more work but I suspect it takes about as long as the birf job. That makes this a possible weekend project if you don't have to shave the head. Am I right?

 

[landtank]

WIth two guys and moderate beer a weekend probably would do it. It looked like 3 easy days for my job until I broke a chain slipper. Then that opened up a whole other can of s***.

When removing the harness it would help to have some compressed air handy. Dust and debrise get into the back of the connectors and don't allow the tabs to move completely so they tend to catch a little and not release. This was the biggest problem with removing the harness, so blowing out any dirt from those plugs would help out a lot. I also got a large sheet of card board to lay the parts out on. That way I could circle groups of nuts or write notes and reminders about how it came off and such right on the sheet next to the parts. It also provides a road map for the return trip, Left to right on disassemble and right to left on reassemble. Also take pics if you can. When reassembling the engine I referenced them and found where I had two wires mounted wrong, they were ground wires, but still I got them back where they were at the factory. I've got plenty of more thoughts but I'll save them if you decide to do it.

If you're doing the HG as a PM item and the engine is running reasonably well then don't allow yourself to get baited into doing more than just swapping out the HG. Even gapping the valves can be done later on as they probably should once the engine has been through a few heat cycles and settled in a little.

Soon after I finished the engine I switched to 87 octane fuel for cost reasons. I can't explain it but this truck runs phenominal. Thought I had issues with the 600 rpm idle til Robbie posted it was normal. Dragged my camping trailer up to Quechee gourge over fathers day weekend. Over drive off which means with 35" tires and 4.88s I was turning 3500+ rpms on the highway for about 2 hours. The engine was wisper quiet and sewing machine smooth, I couldn't take the vibrations last year so I either slowed down or ran in OD on the flatter terrain. Tuesday morning it fired up on the first hit of the starter. It's never done that before, usually several turns first. I mention all this because it was just a HG replacemnent for me, I didn't even replace the valve stem seals. Not for trying though, I just wasn't able to remove the valves with my spring compressor.

If you decide to do it, start a new thread and I'll post a few more observations and things I'd do differently and things that I'd add to the job.

 

[Lars]

I replaced my head gasket earlier this year with the help of a friend. I agree, a good weekend would have been sufficient to do just the gasket. Unfortunately (like Landtank) we discovered my timing chain damper was broken which doubled the time and effort. Also, my head needed work as there was some leakage.