At wit's end, please help!

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Joined
Jun 20, 2004
Threads
146
Messages
2,945
Location
Round Rock, TX
Guys, I need some help, I'm getting ready to douse the Cruiser in gasoline and fire it up in a viking funeral if I can't get it to start.

Here's the background. Truck was running well but a little rich when parked. Carb had about 120K miles on it so I thought the carb needed a rebuilt. Live near one of the Cruiser carb gurus, so I had him rebuild the carb. While he was at it, I asked him to check out the distributor, which had about 200K miles. Distributor is non-USA with a Pertronix ignition module in it. He rebuilds the carb, discovers the distributor shaft is worn beyond saving, so in goes a new non-US distributor with a new Pertronix. Put the carb back on, distributor back in. Can't get it started. We start the diagnostics, discover the alternator (original OEM, with external voltage regulator), which also has 200K miles, has croaked. Couldn't find a replacement (Cruiser is non-US), so I take it to get rebuilt. At the same time, I decide to replace the starter with a new Denso gear-reduction kit. While I'm waiting for the alternator, I replace the spark plugs and spark plug wires with new OEM Toyota. Alternator comes in, I reinstall it, try to start the truck. No dice. Consider that it's possible that the malfunctioning alternator took out the coil with it. Test the coil, can't figure out anything is wrong but at this point I'm desperate, replace it with a new one. Cruiser has two brand-new Optimas that I had treated her with during the time she was down, fully charged.

So here's the summary. Brand new carb, distributor, electronic ignition, alternator, coil, wires, plugs, starter, batteries. I have it at TDC, try cranking it, it turns over but I can't get spark. There is *some* smoke coming out the exhuast and at one point I have smoke come through the carb, but still no strong spark. After a while, I couldn't get it to crank again, now all I get, even with a full battery, is a click, like a solenoid or relay clicking, somewhere around the driver's side of the engine bay.

Anyone have any suggestions? I't s clearly an electrical gremlin but I am extremely frustrated, truck has been down for more than 4 months and the wife's tolerance has run its course, I need to get this thing back on the road.

Any advice, thoughts, suggestions, constructive criticism and/or witty remarks welcome, I could use some laughter right about now.

Cruiser is a non-US 1991 FJ62 with a hodge-podge of parts that makes diagnosis difficult and part replacement an adventure. I posted here rather than on the 60 series forum because the components are more akin to old FJ40's than the wagon's contemporaries. For example, distributor is the same as that on early FJ40's, coil is the same as 74-80 FJ40's, and the 3F is carburated.

Thanks in advance!!!!!

PS: Whenever people daydream of cool non-US Land Cruisers, there are the things you need to think about as well. Yes, you get a myriad of cool components, but you also get a lot of *obscure*, hard to source and expensive components, that make daily driving and/or remote four wheeling a nightmare.
 
man. nightmares.

I read the "full battery" part, but have you tried a new one? The best part about these things is it can only be so "much"....carb is good, timing/dist..

I don't know much about the 62's though. I'm sure somebody here can help.
 
Wish I were in your neck of the woods, I hate gassers and electrical but once I get started there is no stopping until I figure it out.

Kinda makes you wish that thing had a 12HT or some other type of diesel?

Could by any chance the plug wires be on wrong, distributor 180 out?
 
So here's the summary. Brand new carb, distributor, electronic ignition, alternator, coil, wires, plugs, starter, batteries. I have it at TDC, try cranking it, it turns over but I can't get spark. There is *some* smoke coming out the exhuast and at one point I have smoke come through the carb, but still no strong spark. After a while, I couldn't get it to crank again, now all I get, even with a full battery, is a click, like a solenoid or relay clicking, somewhere around the driver's side of the engine bay.

I answered too quickly before reading indepth.

If you have anytype of smoke you must have spark.

Could the smoke you are seeing be fuel vapour?

Your at TPDC, did you pull the cap off the distributor and make sure the rotor was in the correct position.

Just throwing out what very little gasser knowlege I have.
 
Have you tried bypassing the igniter box on top of the coil? Mine pooped out long ago, but since i've got points it doesn't matter. Just running hot switched to the positive side of the coil. Then a lead to the points. I imagine a pertronix is pretty much wired like points, seeing as how they replace them. Of course I work for a company that used to sell pertronix kits, and stopped because they kept failing. Apparently if you leave the ignition on without the vehicle running for any period of time it smokes the pertronix unit. I witnessed it in person recently when a guy here put a new radio in his old bmw 2002. Left the ignition on for about an hour, new radio worked great, but car wouldn't start.
 
Henry, if its the person I think rebuilt your carb..............don't rule out the carb.....it may be the problem, but even if its a buggered up as the one I got from said un-named person it should still start.

Ken, you can kill a set of points the same way, leaving the key on, I think it will even kill an OEM electonic ignition(or the coil) says right in the FSM.........don't leave the key in run with the motor off........it will fry the coil. So its not just a Pertronixs issue, but in this case it may be a bad unit.

Don't think there is an ignitor to bypass with a non US dizzy, should be just a coil

Henry, when you changed out the starter to a GR unit did you change any wiring? I know I had to change at least one wire on mine and leave one off when going from old starter to a GR unit. the power to the coil comes from the starter(I think) so make sure its hooked up. The wire I had to leave off is the wire that bypasses the ballast resistor, sending a full 13 volts to the dizzy when starting, this shouldn't be the problem as mine fires right up without it.

if the dizzy vacume diaphram is pointing towards the front of the motor and almost parelle to the block it should be in the right way. When you set it up, did you set the dial on dizzy to zero?

are you getting fuel?

see that can be the problem with replacing to many things at once without being able to run it in between........many more places to have to check for problem. Me I like swaping out one thing at a time..... ;)

I feel your pain, I buggered up my fj2 recently, in the end all came out great(and better then ever) but boy was I hating that Cruiser.
 
Have you got a rotor in that distributor? I know, sounds dumb, but I saw an episode of American Hotrod where the idiots kept cranking a new engine over without a rotor.

Come to think of it, I think somebody on this list had the wrong rotor installed for a time, and the rotor tip was too short to reach the plug terminals to transfer the spark.

No spark at the coil or at the plugs?

The clicking that you hear is probably just the idle solenoid picking up / dropping out when you turn on / off the ignition.
 
Fun to see pros mess up like that.,,,,,,

My buddy calls me and expects me to drop everthing as I think he thinks I am his sons personal mechanic. Anyhow I was very close to were his truck Calfed.

He starts it up reving it, trying to stay going as I yelled shut it off.

The knuckle head had gotten the distributor wet and put the coil wire into one of th spark plug holes and the spark plug wire into the coil spot. Not sure how this thing ran but it did.

Ten seconds later he was running smooth after already dropping 200 on a alternator for nothing.

Some schits and giggles for Henry......
 
Sounds like you are 180* out of phase with the distributor. If that isnt it, I'd say its that inline fuse that goes on the way to the fuse panel.
 
done it more than once myself, messing with adjusting points and forgot to put the rotor back......"hey whats this thing in on the inner fender......ah s***"

spotcruiser said:
Have you got a rotor in that distributor? I know, sounds dumb, but I saw an episode of American Hotrod where the idiots kept cranking a new engine over without a rotor.

Come to think of it, I think somebody on this list had the wrong rotor installed for a time, and the rotor tip was too short to reach the plug terminals to transfer the spark.

No spark at the coil or at the plugs?

The clicking that you hear is probably just the idle solenoid picking up / dropping out when you turn on / off the ignition.
 
Okay, here's the latest. Took the distributor out, set the engine to TDC (by rotating the flywheel and confirmed by taking out #1 sparkplug to check), put the distributor back in, rotor pointed at #1, fired up the truck, started at the first try, but then I noticed I didn't have oil pressure. Shut it down in a hurry, figured the bottom of the distributor wasn't engaging the oil pump.

Repeated the procedure above, and in the process broke off the horizontal bolt on the distributor collar, which must have been stretched....D'OH! Took it out, looked through about three coffee cans worth of nuts and bolts, came up with an alternative, had to break out a grinder to modify the collar to accept the new bolt/nut, put it back in. Fired up the truck...NOTHING, same as before, some detonation and smoke coming out of the exhaust, some popping noises in the engine and some smoke coming out of the carb (detonation inside it?)....

Ran out of steam in the 90% humidity, threw in the towel until tomorrow.

I will start all over again tomorrow, same procedure, but I have some questions. With the engine at TDC, how should the distributor be sitting? With the vaccum diaphragm on the right side, sort of *perpendicular* to the block, right? If I mount it parallel to the block, the knob that adjusts the manual advance will be either touching the block or facing it. This may be what I'm doing wrong, it's been so long since the distributor has been in the truck that I can't really remember how it used to sit.

Is there anything else I need to be considering it? The two seconds it ran today gave me some energy to get this done by tomorrow and maybe drive the old beast to work on Monday, but the frustration level hit new heights afterwards.

By the way, those considering SOA's should take into account that working on engine bay of the Cruiser becomes a *BITCH*, there's no good place to put a step ladder and I skinned both shins sliding off the hubs. Still doesn't make the SOA a bad mod (actually a great one), but still, what a royal PITA...
 
I am glad you got it started. the 180 deg thing threw me for a bit. Did you make sure your Oil sender wire is connected. It's easy to bump off when you are working in there.

A way to check it is to take off your dits cap. Mark where the rotor is pointing, pull the dizzy out and then take a long screw drive blade on a drill. Put it in the oil pump slot and with the key in ifnition on, fire up the drill. You (another person) should see the oil gauge indicate pressure. If you don't, then you need to troubleshoot until you figure out why the gauge/sender isn't working. If you do have pressure, the dizzy probably wasn't fully seated. You can check the fully seated before you remove it. This is just a method to prime the pump and make sure the sender is working.

Let us know. Running without oil pressure will cause damage. I know!

Ken
 
this is on my 45LV F motor but its the same as your non US dizzy.

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Success!!! At 2600 hours today, the old tired 3F finally came to life! After some rough idling, it settled into a nice purr at 700 RPM's, and so far seems to be running fine. A short test drive to fill it up with fuel and buy some power sterring fluid (while leaning into it I must have loosened the line, when the engine cranked it started to drip heavily out the fitting, but stopped once I tightened it), and then back home. I want to fiddle with the timing because it seemed to be running a wee bit hot, but that might also mean some of the crud in the radiator settled and it needs a good flush.

Next DIY step, rebuild both axles. Front gets Longfields, the Auburn LSD replaced with an ARB, 4.88's, knuckles and hubs rebuilt, and new brakes. Rear gets the ARB fixed, new bearings and seals, 4.88's, and if I can find a good setup for the e-brake, rear disk brakes.

Next fabrication step is putting the finishing touches on the swingout cargo barrier, wrapping up the onboard air, and modifying the ARB bullbar before getting it blasted and powdercoated.

Now that she's mobile again, I hope to get everything done before the winter.

Thanks for everyone's help!!!

Henry
 
so what was wrong?

glad shes running :)
 
Thats part of this board. You learn from us and then you share what you learned in fixing your problem.

Otherwise, no one responds to your post next time!
 
Landpimp said:
so what was wrong?

glad shes running :)


I'm invested in this story now...How did it end??????
 
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