Another tire question but with specific needs.

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B

Bigwood

Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Threads
7
Messages
58
Location
Seattle, WA
Hi, I have been reading for hours and still cannot get a clear recommendation for new tires.
i have a 2017 LC with 55k miles on it. I plan on keeping it stock height and wheels.
I drive it from Seattle to our cabin outside of Boise (Sun Valley) once a month year round. It is 600 miles each way And a 11 hour drive when the weather is good. The winter can be pretty rough/nasty driving over there: temps around 10*, winter storms and a lot of compact snow and ice. It is cold enough that the ice usually isn’t slippery. I don’t off-road but do spend quite a bit of time on dirt roads when I am in Idaho.
I was thinking of the ta/ok 3 But I have always bought Michelin in the past. Brand really isn’t important to me.
any thoughts or comments would be really appreciated as I am really at a loss of what to choose. Thanks!
 
Bigwood said:
Hi, I have been reading for hours and still cannot get a clear recommendation for new tires.
i have a 2017 LC with 55k miles on it. I plan on keeping it stock height and wheels.
I drive it from Seattle to our cabin outside of Boise (Sun Valley) once a month year round. It is 600 miles each way And a 11 hour drive when the weather is good. The winter can be pretty rough/nasty driving over there: temps around 10*, winter storms and a lot of compact snow and ice. It is cold enough that the ice usually isn’t slippery. I don’t off-road but do spend quite a bit of time on dirt roads when I am in Idaho.
I was thinking of the ta/ok 3 But I have always bought Michelin in the past. Brand really isn’t important to me.
any thoughts or comments would be really appreciated as I am really at a loss of what to choose. Thanks!
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As far as brands go (Who Owns What):

Who owns which tyre brands?
The tyre industry is a confusing business. Historically there were the big 3 brands that people nearly always purchased but recently there have been a number of mergers and new budget brands sprouting.

We thought it would be useful to post a consolidated list of who owns who in the tyre industry (for our reference as much as yours!) so here is our handy list of the market.

Michelin - France
Worlds number one tyre manufacturer. Own the brands Michelin, BF Goodrich, Kleber, Uniroyal* and Riken.

Bridgestone - Japan
One of the original big three. Own the brands Bridgestone, Firestone, Daytona and Europa.

Goodyear Dunlop - USA
Goodyear recently merged with Dunlop to form one of the largest tyre manufacturers in the world. Own the brands Dunlop, Goodyear, Fulda, Falken and Kelly.

Yokohama - Japanese
A brand in themselves, Yokohama claim to be the 7th biggest manufacturer in the world.

Pirelli - Italy
Pirelli claim to be the 5th largest tyre manufacturer in the world. Most of it's retail is through the Pirelli brand but have more recently released the Ceat and Courier brands.

Cooper Tyre - USA
Cooper recently bought the Avon brand. They now own Cooper, Avon and Mastercraft.

Continental - Germany
Owns Continental, Uniroyal*, General Tyre, Gislaved and Semperit.

Toyo - Japan
Toyo are one of the newer budget performance tyres to market. Formed many partnerships around the globe.

Kumho - Korea
Kumho is also a budget road tyre with a strong sporting range.

Apollo - India
Apollo now own Vredestein.

* To add to confusion Uniroyal is Continental owned in Europe and Michelin owned in USA

So if you like Michelin, then BF Goodrich might be a happy choice for you since Michelin Owns BFG.

My recommendation would be to go with the BFG KO2 tires in stock size LT285/60R18/D 118/115S inflated to the Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure of 46psi Front/Rear. Note, these tires are "S" Speed Rated so good for extended highway trips.

There are lots of good tires out there to choose from. Good luck in your search.

HTH
 
I have the exact same BFG KO2 tire as what gaijin stated above. I love them. Ride is good for an aggressive AT tire. Noise is really low on the highway. But it does weigh around 54 lbs per tire. I saw about 1 mpg decrease on my highway travels.

Now, if i did not go off-roading in far off places, then my other choice would have been the Michelin Defender. Defender does come in stock size and is XL (extra load) rated. From email exchanges, Michelin told me that the carcass is reinforced in the XL tires...it is stronger tire than P-metric to be able to carry the extra load. The nice thing is that you get a (slightly) stronger tire with no weight penalty...it weighs a measly 39 lbs (on par with OEM tire that came with LC). It’s like having cake and eating it too!

I may have talked myself into getting Defender next time around. :D
 
No expert here but Michelin Defender LTX MS would give you better mileage and on road snow performance. They don’t look tough but lots of people successfully off road them. The KO2’s don’t have a great reputation for snow and ice performance.
 
JohnPW said:
No expert here but Michelin Defender LTX MS would give you better mileage and on road snow performance. They don’t look tough but lots of people successfully off road them. The KO2’s don’t have a great reputation for snow and ice performance.
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I see you are from Florida.

KO2s are great in the snow. Ran them in Chicago for 10 years and Alaska for 3. Never had an issue in compact snow, glazed roadways, or the deep stuff.

If you’re looking for ice performance: it’s Nokian studded tires or nothing.
 
Not to turn this into a tire debate but .... I would also give the falken AT3w a hard look, they are 3 mountain peak rated. The Falkens do better in wet weather compared the KO2s in my opinion. If you are serious about winter performance the best tire is always a dedicated winter tire such as the Nokian.
 
kennyao30 said:
Not to turn this into a tire debate but .... I would also give the falken AT3w a hard look, they are 3 mountain peak rated. The Falkens do better in wet weather compared the KO2s in my opinion. If you are serious about winter performance the best tire is always a dedicated winter tire such as the Nokian.
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Heard of a recent cost cutting move and associated compound change that resulted in decreased performance across the board.
 
kennyao30 said:
Not to turn this into a tire debate but .... I would also give the falken AT3w a hard look, they are 3 mountain peak rated. The Falkens do better in wet weather compared the KO2s in my opinion. If you are serious about winter performance the best tire is always a dedicated winter tire such as the Nokian.
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In addition to (rumored) compound change, why would one buy a tire that is so damn heavy with no associated increase in strength?
 
Good luck - you're probably going to get the same 3 or 4 tires recommended to you like most other threads.

I personally went with the Yokohama Geolandar AT G015 for the following reasons:

- Less aggressive AT for nicer road manners. I was using the truck for mostly highway commuting 60-70 miles per day and longer trips with rare off-roading on simple trails. Slightly stiffer compared to AS but you don't hear any road noise. Even up to allegedly 110 mph in Mexico they had reasonable manners

- Severe snow rated: I didn't want a second set of wheels and tires. Are they as good as Nokians or Blizzaks (both of which I had)? No, but they're totally fine in the snow and a noticeable improvement over AS. 50-60 mph on an unplowed highway during a blizzard is fine for my needs

- Good treadwear and warranty. I have just under 40k on them and they are wearing evenly both across the tread and concentrically. I somehow got 21 MPG on a trip at the end of last year, but typically around 18. Maybe slightly more vibration now than when originally balanced but I don't know for sure because most of the summer I've been driving a car with an electric steering rack and 220 TW tires

I may try the KO2s next because I like experiencing different options but the Geolandars fit my vehicle use very well so far. Ultimately it depends on your specific use and where you want to make tradeoffs.
 
Karbon said:
Good luck - you're probably going to get the same 3 or 4 tires recommended to you like most other threads.

I personally went with the Yokohama Geolandar AT G015 for the following reasons:

- Less aggressive AT for nicer road manners. I was using the truck for mostly highway commuting 60-70 miles per day and longer trips with rare off-roading on simple trails. Slightly stiffer compared to AS but you don't hear any road noise. Even up to allegedly 110 mph in Mexico they had reasonable manners

- Severe snow rated: I didn't want a second set of wheels and tires. Are they as good as Nokians or Blizzaks (both of which I had)? No, but they're totally fine in the snow and a noticeable improvement over AS. 50-60 mph on an unplowed highway during a blizzard is fine for my needs

- Good treadwear and warranty. I have just under 40k on them and they are wearing evenly both across the tread and concentrically. I somehow got 21 MPG on a trip at the end of last year, but typically around 18. Maybe slightly more vibration now than when originally balanced but I don't know for sure because most of the summer I've been driving a car with an electric steering rack and 220 TW tires

I may try the KO2s next because I like experiencing different options but the Geolandars fit my vehicle use very well so far. Ultimately it depends on your specific use and where you want to make tradeoffs.
Click to expand...

G015 is also excellent!! Did you buy LT or P-metric?
 
Madtiger said:
G015 is also excellent!! Did you buy LT or P-metric?
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I went with the P-metric because I couldn't justify a need for the additional weight of the LT. I can say that the tires held up to a ton of pothole abuse, even some massive ones that are rim-breakers on smaller vehicles with low profile sidewalls. The only downside is that I got used to driving straight over them since the truck handles it so well.

Also as an additional note, hydroplaning resistance is pretty good. The parkways always have flooded spots which pull the truck around a bit but it recovers quickly without any major throttle or steering adjustments.
 
Another data point for you. I drove the Michelin Defenders my T100 and they fine in the winters and I did lots of highway and dirt/rocky roads. I too am looking a new tires and looked at the KO2 and for my driving ruled them out because of the potential noise. I am currently looking at the Goodyear Wrangler AT.
 
Tires are hard to bench race. Most commentary is relative to an individuals perceived experience based on whatever (limited) comparable experience or background they may have. It takes a ton of research, wading through commentary ranging from outright wrong, useless, or actually worth 2 cents. Gotta love the commentary here from individuals with zero first hand experience sharing opinions on tires they've never had. Fortunately, most every tire on the market today outperforms tires from just a decade ago, by a significant margin.

That said, there are differences. Each manufacturer model and tire may excel at different things. Some designs, even the current class benchmark, are now older technology and due for redesign.

You can weigh whether my commentary is worth any pennies but I have done my research. You can search my posts to find references.

If winter wet and snow is what you're priority is, the Falken AT3W use to be THE go to tire. Weight or not, it outright performs and delivers on objective tests with excellent handling, aggressiveness, low NVH. The recent rumored compound change is a wild card, otherwise I would have gotten another set.

The tire I would get today is the newly released just earlier this year Toyo AT3. It goes toe to toe on the Falkens on just about every quality as benched by a tire tester Joe Bacal. With perhaps really minor advantages for noise and snow performance. I just voted again with my dollars on these tires and expect great things out of them.

1600702433785.png
 
Remind us again who Joe Bacal works for in designing a tire he is championing? Or who pays his paycheck again?

:D
 
Madtiger said:
Remind us again who Joe Bacal works for in designing a tire he is championing? Or who pays his paycheck again?

:D
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I know you're capable of reading between the lines. There are other resources that corroborate the commentary there.

- He places Falkens at the top of his list and is a huge proponent of them, as it wins more outright tests than any other tire, including the Toyo's. He has no business relationship with Falken.
- He has deep relationships with BFGoodRich including previous sponsorship, yet he challenged KO2s to step up with a redesign to be class competitive again
 
I'll just add that I have KO2s on now, and although I really like them, there is NO WAY IN HELL I would run them in the winter. They are great in loose deep snow, but that is rare, normally the roads are plowed with packed snow and ice, and at that point I have found them treacherous and I can't trust them. I have a second set of wheels, setup with Nokians R3's that get swapped on in the winter. But I know that many people don't want that hassle.

When these KO2's get worn out, I'll probably be looking for something different. Mostly to try something else.
 
TeCKis300 said:
I know you're capable of reading between the lines. There are other resources that corroborate the commentary there.

- He places Falkens at the top of his list and is a huge proponent of them, as it wins more outright tests than any other tire, including the Toyo's. He has no business relationship with Falken.
- He has deep relationships with BFGoodRich including previous sponsorship, yet he challenged KO2s to step up with a redesign to be class competitive again
Click to expand...

You never answered my question. Who is paying his paycheck now? Which tire company is he intimately in bed with?

As for Falkens, he placed them up........lifting them up........and then conclusion was Toyo AT3 is better than Falkens. Pure marketing ploy.

Yeah, when he was originally with Toyota, he loved BFG KO. But his viewpoints have changed once sponsorship and paychecks come from tire companies.

So, yeah, i know how to read between the lines....
 
Time has also progressed.

It's no surprise that tires leapfrog each other as new designs and models are released. Some designs like the NTG2s and previous Toyo AT2s were great in their time, but are now dogs as they were released over 8 years ago. KO2s hail from 2014, and was released with great fanfare, established new high watermarks for performance. Falkens quickly iterated through 3 designs, finally landing on the AT3Ws released in 2015.

Previous accomplishments and heritage doesn't hold weight for tires as technology progresses. We as consumers can benefit from the competition if we can get past marketing info.

Toyo AT3s are a brand new 2020 design. It should be of no surprise that it has every advantage to outperform others in its class.
 
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