Another ABS Brake Failure
- Thread starter tdkhelene
- Start date
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Sure, it will be $2040 for 47050-60010
Shucks... that would have been a nice gift... ranma21. I'll try to look you up next time i have to order something.
Sure, PM me if you need anything
Question - does any other Toyota share the same brake system? If so, is there any empirical evidence in re failure?
- Thread starter
- #45
Here's a bit of an update...
Recently tore apart the whole ABS system... Very interesting to say the least...
Brake fluid tank off...
All outlets are at the VERY bottom of the tank... the place where all the gunge accumulates...
Next off... the accumulator assembly: (Does anyone ever read these warnings?)
Now for the motor...
And now the motor housing:
Uh, oh... I think I see a problem...
Recently tore apart the whole ABS system... Very interesting to say the least...
Brake fluid tank off...
All outlets are at the VERY bottom of the tank... the place where all the gunge accumulates...
Next off... the accumulator assembly: (Does anyone ever read these warnings?)
Now for the motor...
And now the motor housing:
Uh, oh... I think I see a problem...- Thread starter
- #46
My... What a lovely armature... <choke>
What the...??? What is all that junk? Is it from the brushes? Is it corrosion from water leakage? The motor gasket appeared intact...
Ok... moving on... taking off the top of the Master Cylinder now... Hmm... there seems to be a thin metal gasket plate between the main valve block and the cylinder...
(Note where the little metal shaft comes out in the middle for putting it back later!)
aaaaand.... there's the other side of the metal gasket....
What the...??? What is all that junk? Is it from the brushes? Is it corrosion from water leakage? The motor gasket appeared intact...
Ok... moving on... taking off the top of the Master Cylinder now... Hmm... there seems to be a thin metal gasket plate between the main valve block and the cylinder...
(Note where the little metal shaft comes out in the middle for putting it back later!)
aaaaand.... there's the other side of the metal gasket....
- Thread starter
- #47
Wow... it seems there is a lot of discoloration on the main metal block... Not sure what that is all about...
It doesn't seem to smear off with a finger... but a little bit of emory paper seems to take off the film...
Interestingly enough... there seems to be a little gunge accumulated in one of the orfaces... (It's the dirt on my finger)
Now for the brain box... I'm expecting some sort of circuit board...
What the... ??? That's the weirdest circuit board I've ever seen...
I took the three remaining screws out but could not get the plastic part off... It seems the two blue/green thingies on the right are directly wired into the plastic box which prevents it from being removed...
Looking through the open holes I can see a couple of copper solenoids where ever one of the silver balls are visible. I assume this is the electrical / mechanical portion of the valving.
It doesn't seem to smear off with a finger... but a little bit of emory paper seems to take off the film...
Interestingly enough... there seems to be a little gunge accumulated in one of the orfaces... (It's the dirt on my finger)
Now for the brain box... I'm expecting some sort of circuit board...
What the... ??? That's the weirdest circuit board I've ever seen...
I took the three remaining screws out but could not get the plastic part off... It seems the two blue/green thingies on the right are directly wired into the plastic box which prevents it from being removed...
Looking through the open holes I can see a couple of copper solenoids where ever one of the silver balls are visible. I assume this is the electrical / mechanical portion of the valving.
- Thread starter
- #48
Well... that's as far as I've gotten here tonight... I might dig into the M/C at another date and time and see what we find inside there.
Conclusions so far: My biggest culprit seems to be the electric motor. Based on what I see, water has made its way into the housing and started some corrosion. (it could be brake fluid... but I kinda doubt it since it didn't seem oily). Heavy corrosion was also evident on the wire connectors to and from the motor. (a likely sign)
Other thoughts and observations:
Conclusions so far: My biggest culprit seems to be the electric motor. Based on what I see, water has made its way into the housing and started some corrosion. (it could be brake fluid... but I kinda doubt it since it didn't seem oily). Heavy corrosion was also evident on the wire connectors to and from the motor. (a likely sign)
Other thoughts and observations:
- The drainage points of the tank maybe should have been a little higher to prevent the nasty's from being sucked into the system.
- This brake system does seem to be all linked... front and back together. If one end goes, it all goes. (Not good as many of us have learned)
- The strange film on the valve block may be varnishing which can also cause some major problems inside valve bodies etc... (I'm only speculating about it being varnish residue)
- I saw a little bit of dirty fluid / gunge inside the valve bock... but nothing I would have considered a "smoking gun" for complete failure... (granted... there could be something stuck deep inside that I'm not aware of) but even the little filter plugs inside the block seemed clean.
- One should be able to replace that electric motor without having to replace the whole d@mn, $2,000 system!!!!!
Great breakdown!!
Yes, in fact one can! I did this very thing about a month ago. Rebuilt the MC with the $50 kit you can buy from Toyota and replaced the pump and accumulator with new oem parts. Cost was around $1200 for the motor I believe.
well, one would think that cleaning up the inside of the motor every so often and removing that kind of gunk would go a long way to helping it run better, if only to prevent issues with the brushes... But what is it?
- Thread starter
- #52
1200 for the motor alone... Good knight! It's like they have you over a barrel or something....
Still... I guess $1250 is better than a total 4K bill. <sigh>
Good knight! It's like they have you over a barrel or something.... Still... I guess $1250 is better than a total 4K bill. <sigh>
Wouldn't this be the best option?
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/so...-pump-on-master-cylinder.853803/#post-9715277
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/so...-pump-on-master-cylinder.853803/#post-9715277
Could it be the worn out residue from the brushes? Anyone know an electric motor rebuilder that can clear up the mystery?
looks like way more volume of dust than you'd have in a normal size brush at first glance. But maybe not if there are a couple of big brushes completely gone and it's fluffy stuff...
I think that detritus goes waaay beyond dust. That commutator is a poster boy for failure via grooving. I suspect that all that junk in the image is commutator insulation and substrate - the non conductive core of the commutator that has been ground away. Many years ago, as a phase of an electrical fitter/mechanic apprenticeship, I did my penance in a rewind shop, which consisted mainly of getting coffee and getting yelled at, but we did undertake many rebuilds, rewinds and lots of commutator dressing, re brushing etc. I don't recall seeing anything like that, usually it was just worn brushes and glazed commutators that were easily dressed and refreshed. It was normal to have to de dust the brush holders and rotor but that was basically carbon dust, not that ground coffee resembling mess.
hey TDKHelene thanks for the breakdown; did you notice any type of leakage??? when removing the resivor ??
is there any way of testing the master cylinder or motor? electrical test?
by the way you are in seatlle wash area; where did the vehicle come from? did it spend most of its life that area? others that said they had the failure I think where in the warm states; I'm just trying to figure if its from our rust corrosive stuff maybe working its way in there??
The commutator is destroyed, nothing to test.