AC problems

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Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Threads
385
Messages
21,383
Location
Groveland MA
Website
landtankproducts.com
I had to top off my AC last year and this year as well. Yesturday the AC was dead again so I realsie things have gotten worse.

When I last filled it I injected soem dye and low and behold it seems my condensor has failed. A nice florescent area on the DS about half way down the side.

If I'm going it to do this I was thinking of replacing the dryer with the one that Junk used.

Any tips on doing this?
 
Check the front seal on your compressor as well.

You could replace the Condenser, Drier, Expansion valve, and O-Rings for about $225.00 www.ackits.com/

I don't know how that compares to Dan's prices for the same items, or if there is any significant difference in quality. Just an option for your consideration.

You could do all the work yourself, and then have a shop pump down your system, add a little oil, and recharge with refrigerant if you don't have the tools.
 
landtank said:
If I'm going it to do this I was thinking of replacing the dryer with the one that Junk used.

No tips or anything else of value to add other than I plan to do the same thing the first time I have to crack open the A/C system. I keep thinking some day I'll bust off the dryer since it hangs pretty low on our models but it hasn't happened yet.

-B-
 
landtank said:
Called Dan and got a price. Cattledog came by today and offered to help with a pump.

Right now I just need to figure out how to set everything back up when it's done. Mainly how much oil that has to be replaced.


Ballpark figures: 1/2 ounce in the new drier and about 1/4 ounce in the condenser.

After reassembly of the system:

Pull a vacuum on it for about 10 minutes, shut off pump and verify that the system hasn't leaked down (over the next 10 minutes). If not, then continue pulling a vacuum for 30 minutes. Make sure the oil in the vacuum pump is fresh (it absorbs the moisture and contaminants pulled from the system).

Since you have completely evacuated system and have a "deep" vacuum....you can charge from the high side (engine and compressor OFF) if you like. It will take nearly the entire charge very quickly this way.

Glad to see someone doing it right. You won't regret it.
 
Thanks for the help. The truck might have 200k on it but it's still worth the effort.

You start letting things slip and pretty soon your own opinion of it starts going down hill and things get easier and easier to let go or half ass and before you know it's a POS.

Not at all what I want.
 
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flintknapper said:
"deep" vacuum....y

Do you have a value? Deep is a really non specific value.

The pumps I have can run from 0.001 torr (oil rotary vane style) or 7 torr for Piston - positive displacement-. I think 0.001 torr is overkill. 10 to 50 torr should be fine for this application. Any thoughts?

BTW, 10 minutes even on the oil rotary vane style pump will not dry the system. To really dry the system you would need to measure a value of less than one torr on a guage. My guess would be about 24 hours with a dry ice cold trap. I would let the ac dryer worry about the water in the system.
 
Cattledog said:
Do you have a value? Deep is a really non specific value.

The pumps I have can run from 0.001 torr (oil rotary vane style) or 7 torr for Piston - positive displacement-. I think 0.001 torr is overkill. 10 to 50 torr should be fine for this application. Any thoughts?

BTW, 10 minutes even on the oil rotary vane style pump will not dry the system. To really dry the system you would need to measure a value of less than one torr on a guage. My guess would be about 24 hours with a dry ice cold trap. I would let the ac dryer worry about the water in the system.


The purpose for pulling a vacuum the first 10 minutes is to establish a "baseline" to watch (not to dry the system). In other words: I need some amount of vacuum on the system to check and see that it doesn't leak down significantly. If it does...I've still got a leak somewhere and continuing would be akin to "pissing into the wind".

What we're doing by applying a vacuum is: Removing any air in the system and lowering the pressure to a point where moisture will "boil off" and can be removed as a vapor. This is a very important step however.


Vacuum Level Required to Boil Water.

At sea level, water begins to boil and change into a vapor state at 212 degrees Fahrenheit. If we increase the pressure we can raise the boiling point of water.

If we wish to lower the boiling point of liquid, we simply remove the pressure that's on top of that liquid. That's how we boil water out of an air conditioning system. We use a vacuum pump to bring the system to a level of near perfect vacuum so the water will boil off and be carried away as a vapor.

It's important to note that ambient temperature has much to do with the point at which liquids will boil under vacuum. The greater the temperature, the fewer microns of vacuum will be required to start the boiling process.

Here's a chart that shows how temperature plays a role in the level of vacuum needed to boil water.

Inches of Mercury
Boiling Point of Water °F

26.45
120

27.32
110

27.99
100

28.50
90

28.89
80

29.18
70

29.40
60

29.66
50

29.71
40

29.76
30

29.82
20

29.86
10

All values are at sea level. Subtract 1 inch for each 1000 ft. above sea level


What I mean by "Deep Vacuum" in layman's terms is: (For most places) at least 28" of Mercury for at least 30 minutes (an hour is better).

If you don't start with fresh oil in your pump (if yours requires oil), then you're unlikely to get the best vacuum you can.

Without a micron gauge...you don't really know how much vacuum you've pulled, but for the average automotive application simple manifold gauges will suffice.

Whatever you do, if you have opened the system, or it has completely leaked down...replace the drier and pull a vacuum. Don't just "pour in the cold".
 
I guess I was just being a :grinpimp: . too much :beer:

I fully understand the point of pulling a good roughing vacuum on the system and measuring the leak down on the system. I have a guage that will read in millitorr, still a little nuts for this application.

Note: If you want the system anhydrous "water free" the vacuum will need to be applied for a min. 24 hours with, a new AC dryer in line, and wait min. 24 hours on the system then measure the vacuum, that is in a best case. Or just use the AC dryer's chemical method of drying while running the system. In a heavly contaminated system the numbers of the BP of water vs vacuum become meaningless when the water freezes to ice upon vaporization. Then sublimation of the water is occuring. Sublimation is faster than vaporization but then "other" issues arise like heat transfer, slowing the "drying" process down.

:cheers:
 
Cattledog said:
I guess I was just being a :grinpimp: . too much :beer:

I fully understand the point of pulling a good roughing vacuum on the system and measuring the leak down on the system. I have a guage that will read in millitorr, still a little nuts for this application.

Note: If you want the system anhydrous "water free" the vacuum will need to be applied for a min. 24 hours with, a new AC dryer in line, and wait min. 24 hours on the system then measure the vacuum, that is in a best case. Or just use the AC dryer's chemical method of drying while running the system. In a heavly contaminated system the numbers of the BP of water vs vacuum become meaningless when the water freezes to ice upon vaporization. Then sublimation of the water is occuring. Sublimation is faster than vaporization but then "other" issues arise like heat transfer, slowing the "drying" process down.

:cheers:


I think you're talking about "frosting" when describing water (unique element that it is). "Sublimation" would require that it go from a solid state (ice) directly to a gas (vapor) not the other way around (except in chemsitry). But, no matter. It seems Landtanks A/C system is in capable hands.

Will there be beer involved? If so, then it could be put on "dry ice", now we're talking sublimation.



The States of Water:

Water has three states. Below freezing water is a solid (ice or snowflakes), between freezing and boiling water is a liquid, and above its boiling point water is a gas.

Water changing from solid to liquid is said to be melting. When it changes from liquid to gas it is evaporating. Water changing from gas to liquid is called condensation . Frost formation is when water changes from gas directly to solid form. When water changes directly from solid to gas the process is called sublimation.


Have fun guys.


Flint.
 
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