'96 80 series starter issues. Please help?

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

I have noticed recently that my '96 FZJ80 has been reluctant to start lately, several cycles of the ignition swith were required to start on occassion. Other times it would start normally.
Today I started it and noticed the annunciator/warning lights on dash did not go out shortly after start and I heard a sound coming from under hood. It was the starter, it was still spinning. I'm guessing the relay got stuck since I tried to shut the ignition switch off but the engine kept running. The only way to shut it off was to turn off the battery quick disconect I recently installed on the + terminal.
Now here's the kicker, I tried to drive it home like this... half way there it started sputtering and surging???? Like a fuel issue or computer control issue, it got progressively worse then it just stopped and the starter motor stopped spinning. After this it drove normally but my Scan Gauge II OBD computer would not give any info. Once home, I shut it down & tried to re-start it. Surprisingly, it did but with an aweful noise.
I'm sure that I need a new starter but what else should I check? Ignition switch? Computer control unit?
Any thoughts or similar experiences? Please let me know.
Thanks a bunch!

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

After reading several threads on here, I disconnected the battery just in case there is the potential for fire.

 

[SeanAndHis80]

Good news - it is most likely starter contacts. Quick, cheap and well documented: Starter Motor Contacts

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

Thanks. I appreciate you rresponce. I hope I didn't do any damage to the flywheel or any other part of the engine by driving it! After reading more and more of these threads... I'm regretting that decision. I'll have to rebuild the starter, check everything out & hope for the best.

 

[Daisy 53]

Starter contacts are very easy, toughest part is getting the starter out! You will need the part number off your starter when you call Dan for the parts, its on a label on top of the starter. You should be able to see it looking down through the engine bay.
Enjoy

Daisy

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

Thanks Daisy 53. Appreciate the advice. I'll have to get on that tonight.

 

[scottm]

Different length socket extensions and flex joints will be very helpful. I had a couple flex joints and a flex-head socket wrench on mine, done it three times now.

 

[gisham]

thats odd- the motor kept running after you turned the ignition off and pulled the key? I mean that should turn off the fuel pump and the ignition- Even if the starter was hung it should have only turned over the motor but no fuel or spark should have been present... this does not sound healthy-

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

gisham - I was affraid that someone would say that but that's why I posted a thread, to get great info from fellow Cruiser's. Thanks for your input, any more words of advice?

 

[gisham]

ignition switch comes to mind- its really the only point i can think of that would cause all of those items to remain on at the same time...

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

I will be sure to check the ignition switch too! Thanks

 

[scottm]

gisham, I don't read it that the engine kept running, only the electric motor. Or am I missing it? The electric starter motor gets power direct from the battery if the starter contacts hang up, which is why the worry about a fire.

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

The engine kept running. The only way to stop the engine and the starter motor, was to disconnect the + battery terminal.

I installed a threaded twist quick disconnect that I had on my old 4Runner as a theft preventative measure. It work fine the several times that I twisted and un-twisted it before my drive home. Once home though, it would not twist off any more. I had to unbolt the terminal clamp from the battery terminal.

Apparently the continuous draw from the starter over the 5 miles drive caused the threaded brass quick disconnect to cease together. During the engine surging I did notice the red low battery annunciator on the dash flash briefly. Maybe all that current draw from the starter confused the charging system and the computer. I checked all of the fuses and nothing is blown. So I am completely dumbfounded about this. I am hopeing that this isn't one problem i.e. starter contacts that has spread over the battery, alternator and computer.

Since the starter motor remained engaged, do you think I caused any internal damaged to the fly wheel or other rotating parts or would the starter drive just shear to prevent any interal engine damage?

 

[Beowulf]

We have had two or three reports (maybe more) where the starter contacts stick closed. This is bad, can be expensive, and possibly very dangerous. We tell people over and over that when the starter starts doing the click-no-start bit, then the problem must be addressed quickly.

Check threads and posts by BrentBBA using keyword search for alternator. I believe his problem was identical to yours and he had to replace the battery, alternator, and starter. Possibly the fusible links and maybe the ECM but I don't remember for sure.

It sounds like you lost the alternator but I don't think you'll have any internal engine damage. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find.
-B-

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

Beowulf - Thanks. I read through all of those postings and the diagnosis is... new contacts, plunger and brushes along with bench testing of the battery, starter & alternator at AutoZone pre & post rebuilds. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction on here.

Everyone else - I appreciate your input too! Thanks for all of your input. I'll be sure to update and write up on this repair when I get to it this weekend.

 

[SeanAndHis80]

Since it restarted afterward albeit noisily - I think you will find the damage limited to the starter itself.

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

Well I just got around to pulling the starter. It came out very easily with a 10mm socket & 12mm wrench. Attached are the pictures of it. The label on the starter says TOYOTA 28100-66060 then below that it says 228000-3260 12V DENSO ND JAPAN.
The 2 piece starter casing came apart slightly while cleaning it up revealing a bunch of dirt and debris. Unfortunately the rubber seal between the two came apart aswell. The 2 screws on the front side of the starter are apparently fused in. I've used penetrating oil, inserted a phillips head & tapped it lightly with a hammer, and torqued the heck out of with elbow grease. All with no movement. Is it possibly that it fused together due to heat from the starter being stuck open for a 5 mile drive home?
Does anyone think this starter is rebuildable?

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

Well looks like I'll have to buy a new starter. While trying to remove the two Phillips screws from the yoke and brush holder the entire armature slid out and landed on the floor nicking it all up. Those scres were definetly fused in there I used a torch to heat them up, penetrating oil and they still stipped out. Just as well, the whole inside is burnt with melted wire insulation and globs of wires melted together.

 

[Beowulf]

Well I just got around to pulling the starter. It came out very easily with a 10mm socket & 12mm wrench.

Is that the complete unit that you pulled?!?

FYI, you have a 2.0kw original starter.

1.4 kw 28100-66040
2.0 kw 28100-66060
2.2 kw 28100-66050

If a -84 appears on the end, the starter is a reman unit and has been replaced at least once.

-B-

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

Yes, that was the complete unit. I pulled the two 6 inch long 10mm bolts and the 12mm 12v power nut. Did I need to pull more stuff off?