If I ever decided to do a roll cage I’m coming back to this thread for ideas. The photos and the thought behind it is amazing. I hope you heal fast and it all goes smooth!
Build 86 Xtra Cab Build (4Wheelunderground 3 link front, 4 link rear and 3.4 swap)
- Thread starter aztoyman
- Start date
Member Builds and Stories
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #2,242
Thanks Mudder. If I were to start all over on the cage, I would change some things that could be better. BUT...In order to make those changes, the first thing I needed to do was change the wire harness.
The fuse panel needs to be out of the kick panel area and the ECM does too. That would let me put the A-pillars further forward into the dash which would allow me to keep the dash mostly intact. It would put the tubes right in front of the fuse panel and ECM with no way to access them otherwise. Doing it that way however, puts the floor plates over the thin floor sheet metal and not over the cab mount structure. Also more of a bend angle for the A-pillars.
I don't think would change the back stays going through the rear window though. To get the tubes higher requires them to be further inboard because of the inner roof structure. Closer to the side my head. I could maybe go a tiny bit higher to go THROUGH the back of the cab ABOVE the window but it would require cutting through that structure. There's always a trade off. There's so many details to consider.
If I had to pass tech, the only thing I could do would be cut off the roof so the cage could come out for welding. Just no way to get to some of the joints inside the cab.
I don't think there is a such thing as a perfect cage.
Thanks for the well wishes. I'm bored, in pain and just want to get healing up.
The fuse panel needs to be out of the kick panel area and the ECM does too. That would let me put the A-pillars further forward into the dash which would allow me to keep the dash mostly intact. It would put the tubes right in front of the fuse panel and ECM with no way to access them otherwise. Doing it that way however, puts the floor plates over the thin floor sheet metal and not over the cab mount structure. Also more of a bend angle for the A-pillars.
I don't think would change the back stays going through the rear window though. To get the tubes higher requires them to be further inboard because of the inner roof structure. Closer to the side my head. I could maybe go a tiny bit higher to go THROUGH the back of the cab ABOVE the window but it would require cutting through that structure. There's always a trade off. There's so many details to consider.
If I had to pass tech, the only thing I could do would be cut off the roof so the cage could come out for welding. Just no way to get to some of the joints inside the cab.
I don't think there is a such thing as a perfect cage.
Thanks for the well wishes. I'm bored, in pain and just want to get healing up.
- Thread starter
- #2,243
Well I'm still alive. Had a rough couple of months. I'm one of those guys that HAS to be doing something every day so being down was harder on me than the pain was. My surgery got cancelled, then rescheduled and long story short, I finally had it last Wednesday and had my post op appointment today. I can't drive yet or do anything strenuous so.........
I have my plan to get the cage all welded up and done with. I decided to just fabricate a dash and not just have a hacked up OEM plastic one. I think I'm going to run a couple 4" Speedhut gauges. One with a GPS speedo so I actually know my speed and don't have to deal with the cable and a ratio correction box. The other will be a quad gauge with oil press, water temp, fuel and volts. I don't "need" a tach.
I have a good, working, 22RE, SR5 cluster with tach I will put up for sale soon with a bunch of blue dash parts. I have a working standard cluster as well. Both clusters have the sensor and sender for the oil pressure. I sold my comfy 2nd gen 4Runner buckets and seat belts. That money is going toward the gauges. I'm looking forward to getting healed up and going on my truck again. PM me if you're interested in any dash parts.
I have my plan to get the cage all welded up and done with. I decided to just fabricate a dash and not just have a hacked up OEM plastic one. I think I'm going to run a couple 4" Speedhut gauges. One with a GPS speedo so I actually know my speed and don't have to deal with the cable and a ratio correction box. The other will be a quad gauge with oil press, water temp, fuel and volts. I don't "need" a tach.
I have a good, working, 22RE, SR5 cluster with tach I will put up for sale soon with a bunch of blue dash parts. I have a working standard cluster as well. Both clusters have the sensor and sender for the oil pressure. I sold my comfy 2nd gen 4Runner buckets and seat belts. That money is going toward the gauges. I'm looking forward to getting healed up and going on my truck again. PM me if you're interested in any dash parts.
- Thread starter
- #2,244
Here's the two gauges I ordered. Not cheap. At least they are 20% off right now. I opted to add turn and high beam indicators in the speedo. The fuel gauge is programable to work with any fuel level sender, similar to the Meter Match I bought and now don't need.
I have an adapter fitting for the block on the way. The oil pressure sensor is bulky so I'm going to mount it on the firewall and run a -3 AN hose from the block. I may need an adapter for my coolant temp. I'll have to see what I'm working with when I get out in the garage.
I didn't get any "physical" work done yet but this is still progress. I still have a little post op vertigo and some healing to do. I'm trying.
I have an adapter fitting for the block on the way. The oil pressure sensor is bulky so I'm going to mount it on the firewall and run a -3 AN hose from the block. I may need an adapter for my coolant temp. I'll have to see what I'm working with when I get out in the garage.
I didn't get any "physical" work done yet but this is still progress. I still have a little post op vertigo and some healing to do. I'm trying.
- Thread starter
- #2,245
You guys deserve an update. The outer sutures on one of my incisions let loose so I still have to take it easy until it closes up. So no cage work until then.
I'm going crazy so I thought I'd knock out some "easy" stuff that needs to get done. I'm not really ready to fabricate my dash but I can at least get the oil pressure sensor and coolant temp sensor installed.
Toyota uses 1/8 BSPT threads and my sensors use 1/8 NPT. Close but not the same. The coolant temp sensor for the gauge on a 3.4 is in a cluttered area on the back of the intake manifold. I saw where guys were putting it in the water outlet where a T-stat USUALLY is. The return to the top radiator hose. Sounds easy enough.
It's behind the plastic timing cover and right away I see it is also crowded. The only way I see for it to fit is pointing to the driver side at a slight up angle. I held the sensor where it looked like it needed to go, marked the spot and used my phone to get the angle.
Drained the coolant low enough to pull the water outlet and saw a blob of corrosion. WTF?? I had a clean system and fresh coolant when I did the timing belt and water pump. The coolant looks perfect. Anyway, another flush is in order once I get the sensor mounted.
IDK what these forum posts are talking about with tapping threads in a thick pad?? No pad and it's too thin. I decided to take a chance and weld a bung on. Welding cast aluminum is risky but I went for it.
I found a piece of round 6061 in my chip tray so I turned a small hat shaped solid slug to 5/8" diameter by 3/8 tall with a little flange at the bottom for a weld fillet. I used a pilot bit to mark the center.
I made a fixture to bolt the water outlet to (at the proper angle) so I could position it in my mill vise. Milled a 3/4 diameter flat pad for the slug to sit on.
Clamped it in my vise and did a solid tack with my TIG. Flipped it and tacked the opposite side. This was a bitch to weld. I started out being patient and letting it cool between sections. Then I got impatient and almost had the casting drop out under me because it got too hot.
Stuck it in the drill press vise, drilled and tapped it. Got it installed and it barely clears the fuel line. Oh yeah, you can't pull the outlet until you either remove the fuel line between the two fuel rails or pull the mounting studs. I had to buy some E-sockets. Took an E-5 to remove them. Went back together with M6 x 16mm long, JIS flange head bolts. Glad I was able to knock out one of the "easy" jobs real quick.
I'm going crazy so I thought I'd knock out some "easy" stuff that needs to get done. I'm not really ready to fabricate my dash but I can at least get the oil pressure sensor and coolant temp sensor installed.
Toyota uses 1/8 BSPT threads and my sensors use 1/8 NPT. Close but not the same. The coolant temp sensor for the gauge on a 3.4 is in a cluttered area on the back of the intake manifold. I saw where guys were putting it in the water outlet where a T-stat USUALLY is. The return to the top radiator hose. Sounds easy enough.
It's behind the plastic timing cover and right away I see it is also crowded. The only way I see for it to fit is pointing to the driver side at a slight up angle. I held the sensor where it looked like it needed to go, marked the spot and used my phone to get the angle.
Drained the coolant low enough to pull the water outlet and saw a blob of corrosion. WTF?? I had a clean system and fresh coolant when I did the timing belt and water pump. The coolant looks perfect. Anyway, another flush is in order once I get the sensor mounted.
IDK what these forum posts are talking about with tapping threads in a thick pad?? No pad and it's too thin. I decided to take a chance and weld a bung on. Welding cast aluminum is risky but I went for it.
I found a piece of round 6061 in my chip tray so I turned a small hat shaped solid slug to 5/8" diameter by 3/8 tall with a little flange at the bottom for a weld fillet. I used a pilot bit to mark the center.
I made a fixture to bolt the water outlet to (at the proper angle) so I could position it in my mill vise. Milled a 3/4 diameter flat pad for the slug to sit on.
Clamped it in my vise and did a solid tack with my TIG. Flipped it and tacked the opposite side. This was a bitch to weld. I started out being patient and letting it cool between sections. Then I got impatient and almost had the casting drop out under me because it got too hot.
Stuck it in the drill press vise, drilled and tapped it. Got it installed and it barely clears the fuel line. Oh yeah, you can't pull the outlet until you either remove the fuel line between the two fuel rails or pull the mounting studs. I had to buy some E-sockets. Took an E-5 to remove them. Went back together with M6 x 16mm long, JIS flange head bolts. Glad I was able to knock out one of the "easy" jobs real quick.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #2,247
4043 filler rod. I scrubbed that casting, wiped it down with acetone, used my aluminum specific SS wire brushes I keep for TIG only and still had stuff popping out of the casting. The slug I machined was clean and the pad I milled was clean. Grind and fill, wire brush, acetone, grind tungsten......I almost said F it.
I did clean the crud out of the inside before I put it back on. It's closer to the fuel line than I expected. A little forward might have worked but might have made it difficult for access to the bolt?? Gonna run with it.
You can see the wire looping behind and above the plastic cover. I decided to run it in Adel clamps to manifold bolts and through the fire wall where the speedo cable comes through. You can see it in one of the pics. The cable will be gone soon.
I did clean the crud out of the inside before I put it back on. It's closer to the fuel line than I expected. A little forward might have worked but might have made it difficult for access to the bolt?? Gonna run with it.
You can see the wire looping behind and above the plastic cover. I decided to run it in Adel clamps to manifold bolts and through the fire wall where the speedo cable comes through. You can see it in one of the pics. The cable will be gone soon.
yeah, welding cast can be a real biotch sometimes. I automatically plan for 2 or 3 passes with complete grind outs in between before hopefully being happy with a final pass. it's like it needs a purification process first.
a step up from the 4043 is 4943. think it's like 25% stronger than 4043 in the as-welded condition. it's heat treatable and not subject to stress corrosion like 5356. good for castings as well. if you ever want to try some 1/16", hit me up and I'll send it over n/c. owe you anyway for all the hood pics.
a step up from the 4043 is 4943. think it's like 25% stronger than 4043 in the as-welded condition. it's heat treatable and not subject to stress corrosion like 5356. good for castings as well. if you ever want to try some 1/16", hit me up and I'll send it over n/c. owe you anyway for all the hood pics.
- Thread starter
- #2,249
I did my welding program in the late 80's so I could get my mechanic job at a Caterpillar Dealership. I'm not a welder by trade though so I always have to look up alloys and what filler to use. This 4043 is what I had on hand as it's pretty versatile for what I usually have to weld. I just looked up 4943 and it definitely looks like it would have been a better filler rod option. Thanks for the tip.
AL castings that have had coolant in them are just rough. No amount of prep will get them completely clean. Pre-heating them can help boil it out of the pores, but until you take them up to welding temperature it only does so much.
- Thread starter
- #2,251
Life keeps hammering me. The other day I was figuring out how and where to mount my oil pressure sensor and made a little bit of progress. The adapter fitting from the block 1/8 BSPT TO -3 AN I bought arrived as a -4 adapter. I added another one to my Summit cart and have a bunch of stuff on the way.
Then my 11 year old Golden (Rufus) quit eating. That's a BAD sign for a chow hound like him. Took him to an emergency vet. He has Lymphoma. So I'm distracted giving him an extra good end of life. Meds have him back to normal but he doesn't know he's a short timer.
I got my sensor mount figured out and welded a bracket up from a piece of flat bar I had. Got it cleaned up and painted to install yesterday. Unfortunately my wife ended up in the hospital so my priorities have changed. I may pick away at what I can but, I have my hands full right now.
Here's a couple pics of how I'm going to run the -3 hose from the oil pressure port on the block and up to the sensor. I'll run the wire pigtail through the speedo cable opening alongside the water temp sensor pigtail. My sensor bracket is just a 1/8 NPT female to -3 AN male adapter welded to a piece I made that bolts to two unused M6 holes on the intake.
Summit shipped my parts. I'll put a 45 degree hose end at the oil pressure port end of the hose and a straight hose end at the sensor. I have Adel clamps to make sure it's securely routed. And heat shield and such if needed. That's the plan anyway.
Then my 11 year old Golden (Rufus) quit eating. That's a BAD sign for a chow hound like him. Took him to an emergency vet. He has Lymphoma. So I'm distracted giving him an extra good end of life. Meds have him back to normal but he doesn't know he's a short timer.
I got my sensor mount figured out and welded a bracket up from a piece of flat bar I had. Got it cleaned up and painted to install yesterday. Unfortunately my wife ended up in the hospital so my priorities have changed. I may pick away at what I can but, I have my hands full right now.
Here's a couple pics of how I'm going to run the -3 hose from the oil pressure port on the block and up to the sensor. I'll run the wire pigtail through the speedo cable opening alongside the water temp sensor pigtail. My sensor bracket is just a 1/8 NPT female to -3 AN male adapter welded to a piece I made that bolts to two unused M6 holes on the intake.
Summit shipped my parts. I'll put a 45 degree hose end at the oil pressure port end of the hose and a straight hose end at the sensor. I have Adel clamps to make sure it's securely routed. And heat shield and such if needed. That's the plan anyway.
- Thread starter
- #2,253
Thanks gnob, Yeah, we had an English Setter that had an aggressive cancer that he beat twice. Had tumors removed and lived to be 16. This got into his bowel so...
Every dog that we've ever had is still alive in my head.
I did something similar on both the Bronc-up and on the FSB. On the Bronc-up I used the Vega oil pressure switch to operate the electric fuel pump. Being a Ford small block V8 there isn't much room around the port at the block, so I remote mounted a small manifold for the Vega switch and for the oil pressure sender. I used 1/8" copper tube between them. I justified that with the fact that GM Square Body pick-ups used the same thing for their oil pressure gauges for most of the production run. It wasn't until EFI came along that it was changed.
Needed to monitor fuel pressure on the FSB, so -3AN adapter bulkhead fitting thru a hole in some angle for mounting it on the intake. -3AN x 1/16NPT adapter on the fuel rail. Moved the Test Port up to a new 1/16NPT hole in the adapter fitting.
I did something similar on both the Bronc-up and on the FSB. On the Bronc-up I used the Vega oil pressure switch to operate the electric fuel pump. Being a Ford small block V8 there isn't much room around the port at the block, so I remote mounted a small manifold for the Vega switch and for the oil pressure sender. I used 1/8" copper tube between them. I justified that with the fact that GM Square Body pick-ups used the same thing for their oil pressure gauges for most of the production run. It wasn't until EFI came along that it was changed.
Needed to monitor fuel pressure on the FSB, so -3AN adapter bulkhead fitting thru a hole in some angle for mounting it on the intake. -3AN x 1/16NPT adapter on the fuel rail. Moved the Test Port up to a new 1/16NPT hole in the adapter fitting.
God speed to the wife and sorry about Rufus.
This is one of the longest builds I have seen on mud.
I really hope to wheel with you someday but at this point I don’t know. Every year I say this is the last year. Not getting any younger
This is one of the longest builds I have seen on mud.
I really hope to wheel with you someday but at this point I don’t know. Every year I say this is the last year. Not getting any younger