- Thread starter
- #21
?-2H ran great-parked: now cranks-won’t start?..help please
- Thread starter LCDiesel60
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 2h no start
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #22
Found more info that outlines some parts I understand-most I don’t:
Oh nice, running! Good stuff.
I do suspect you've burnt out all those 14V plugs and its anybody's guess what state your glow system is in including rail, resistors and the controller. I have some Superglow resources at my Diesel site below, the conceptual diagram is useful (scroll down). Do you still have your old glowplugs - did you note any markings on them that might give some clue to the voltage you had in previously?
When Superglow starts failing its often easier just to move to higher voltage plugs and use one of the two glow solenoids to drive the glow rail directly via a manual pushbutton on the dash. This is the classic "Wilson Switch". 23V plugs would be appropriate for a Wilson switch on a 24V vehicle. (eg Bosch GPT213, HKT PT108). If you search Mud for "wilson switch" you'll find lots of information (also a good guide here: Landcruiser 60 Series Australia -Simplified Glow System - https://www.hj60.com.au/simplified-glow-system)
I do suspect you've burnt out all those 14V plugs and its anybody's guess what state your glow system is in including rail, resistors and the controller. I have some Superglow resources at my Diesel site below, the conceptual diagram is useful (scroll down). Do you still have your old glowplugs - did you note any markings on them that might give some clue to the voltage you had in previously?
When Superglow starts failing its often easier just to move to higher voltage plugs and use one of the two glow solenoids to drive the glow rail directly via a manual pushbutton on the dash. This is the classic "Wilson Switch". 23V plugs would be appropriate for a Wilson switch on a 24V vehicle. (eg Bosch GPT213, HKT PT108). If you search Mud for "wilson switch" you'll find lots of information (also a good guide here: Landcruiser 60 Series Australia -Simplified Glow System - https://www.hj60.com.au/simplified-glow-system)
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #24
Duncan-just checked a few things: some updates—
1-GP voltage was just above 26v-had my ground probe on batt neg instead of body ground.
2-checked GP’s with light probe and end to batt ++ and all were dead.
3-talked with 4 wheel auto in Canada (great parts source) and Dan suggested timing the GP cycle, as odds of all 6 new GP failing is nil; had me pull green sender plug by 1 GP to mimic -40’ for max GP timing: ran about 20 seconds at full 26.4v then down to about 9.7 v—but never cycled off—went for almost 2 mins then keyed off. So looks like GP preheat timer is bad-see factory manual page EM-11, last comment box bottom right….notes if charging system is ok, timer is faulty and should be replaced…
I’ve another used one so will try that to see; if not then will look into the conversion you noted-I need to read your site tonight.
Dan did say that those timers are so old now they are failing more-electronic circuit board…
What a process-I’m glad it happened in front of my shop instead of in the mountains and cold snow where I was planning to ‘walk about’-I solo so in odd places so could have been tough without a glow system.. Thankyou God for your help!
1-GP voltage was just above 26v-had my ground probe on batt neg instead of body ground.
2-checked GP’s with light probe and end to batt ++ and all were dead.
3-talked with 4 wheel auto in Canada (great parts source) and Dan suggested timing the GP cycle, as odds of all 6 new GP failing is nil; had me pull green sender plug by 1 GP to mimic -40’ for max GP timing: ran about 20 seconds at full 26.4v then down to about 9.7 v—but never cycled off—went for almost 2 mins then keyed off. So looks like GP preheat timer is bad-see factory manual page EM-11, last comment box bottom right….notes if charging system is ok, timer is faulty and should be replaced…
I’ve another used one so will try that to see; if not then will look into the conversion you noted-I need to read your site tonight.
Dan did say that those timers are so old now they are failing more-electronic circuit board…
What a process-I’m glad it happened in front of my shop instead of in the mountains and cold snow where I was planning to ‘walk about’-I solo so in odd places so could have been tough without a glow system.. Thankyou God for your help!
- Thread starter
- #25
Duncan-I’ve been doing a lot of reading from your links and your site info and have a couple of questions;
1–have you done this to your 2H? If so, did you do anything different?
2-hj60.com.au mentioned removing the glow plug plate and current sensor plate; those connect the glow plugs common rail conductor plate to the 2-resistance heaters in the intake manifold it appears?—heated at lower voltage for a longer time while engine running from glow relay 2–does that sound right?—somehow controlled by the preheat timer of the super glow system?
My concern in disconnecting those heating elements is less heating of the air?…..where I live we can have -20F.
Have you heard of anyone doing the mod in such a way as to incorporate the intake manifold resist heat elements?—OR; if I don’t remove those 2-conductive plates will they work in sync with the glow plugs?
I’m wanting to really make sure of all details before cutting stock systems so as to have max preheat along with dependability.
Thankyou!!!
1–have you done this to your 2H? If so, did you do anything different?
2-hj60.com.au mentioned removing the glow plug plate and current sensor plate; those connect the glow plugs common rail conductor plate to the 2-resistance heaters in the intake manifold it appears?—heated at lower voltage for a longer time while engine running from glow relay 2–does that sound right?—somehow controlled by the preheat timer of the super glow system?
My concern in disconnecting those heating elements is less heating of the air?…..where I live we can have -20F.
Have you heard of anyone doing the mod in such a way as to incorporate the intake manifold resist heat elements?—OR; if I don’t remove those 2-conductive plates will they work in sync with the glow plugs?
I’m wanting to really make sure of all details before cutting stock systems so as to have max preheat along with dependability.
Thankyou!!!
My HJ60 has this exact simplified glow system setup. My HJ47 still has an original manual glow control (windback ignition key).
I run 11.5V plugs driven by a push button on the dash in my 12V HJ60. We don't get -20F here.. in fact it rarely drops below 32F.. Regardless, 23V plugs and a manual glow switch delivers the ultimate glow controller for a 24V 2H. You'll quickly get a feel for how long the glow needs to be for a given temperature and you can provide a few seconds of afterglow following engine start if you want. There is no downside to manual glow control unless you have other drivers of your vehicle who have never even heard of a glow plug - this is where Superglow has its one and only benefit. Add a digital voltmeter on your dash and you'll also have a visual indication of your glow system health each time you use it.
In my opinion the intake manifold resistors are absolutely NOT provided to heat the intake air.. the intake manifold is just a convenient place to mount them and for the heat to be dissipated safely, it has no appreciable impact on vehicle starting in my opinion, especially given they are mounted rearwards and would only benefit cylinders 5 and 6. The role of the resistors is only to provide a voltage drop for the two stage glow process.
You dont need the sensor plates or resistors with the manual glow control.. just a big fat wire direct to #6 glowplug to energise the whole rail, remove everything else when doing this mod - its all excess baggage. The most dependable glow system is a simple system, especially one that you implicitly understand and which doesn't have any blackboxed behaviours.
I run 11.5V plugs driven by a push button on the dash in my 12V HJ60. We don't get -20F here.. in fact it rarely drops below 32F.. Regardless, 23V plugs and a manual glow switch delivers the ultimate glow controller for a 24V 2H. You'll quickly get a feel for how long the glow needs to be for a given temperature and you can provide a few seconds of afterglow following engine start if you want. There is no downside to manual glow control unless you have other drivers of your vehicle who have never even heard of a glow plug - this is where Superglow has its one and only benefit. Add a digital voltmeter on your dash and you'll also have a visual indication of your glow system health each time you use it.
In my opinion the intake manifold resistors are absolutely NOT provided to heat the intake air.. the intake manifold is just a convenient place to mount them and for the heat to be dissipated safely, it has no appreciable impact on vehicle starting in my opinion, especially given they are mounted rearwards and would only benefit cylinders 5 and 6. The role of the resistors is only to provide a voltage drop for the two stage glow process.
You dont need the sensor plates or resistors with the manual glow control.. just a big fat wire direct to #6 glowplug to energise the whole rail, remove everything else when doing this mod - its all excess baggage. The most dependable glow system is a simple system, especially one that you implicitly understand and which doesn't have any blackboxed behaviours.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #27
Duncan-
Thankyou for the details and clarification!
Yes I agree-simpler the better!-that’s why I’ve been unpleasantly surprised by a circuit board (glow preheat timer).
Now I need to see who can provide those glow plugs-I’ll try some suppliers around here but expect zero success-maybe Dan in Canada can order—I looked at an Aussie site but they have a disclaimer for exports-tariffs and such..I wouldn’t know how to work through that process.
I’ll update this posting when we’ve finalized-unless something else comes up I need help with-I honestly do research a lot before asking-just spent last few hours reading MUD Wilson switch postings.
Eventually I wanted to PM you as well to ask about the onboard oil centrifuge and misc on your site—I’m truly impressed with your detailed documentation and generous help!!
Thankyou for the details and clarification!
Yes I agree-simpler the better!-that’s why I’ve been unpleasantly surprised by a circuit board (glow preheat timer).
Now I need to see who can provide those glow plugs-I’ll try some suppliers around here but expect zero success-maybe Dan in Canada can order—I looked at an Aussie site but they have a disclaimer for exports-tariffs and such..I wouldn’t know how to work through that process.
I’ll update this posting when we’ve finalized-unless something else comes up I need help with-I honestly do research a lot before asking-just spent last few hours reading MUD Wilson switch postings.
Eventually I wanted to PM you as well to ask about the onboard oil centrifuge and misc on your site—I’m truly impressed with your detailed documentation and generous help!!
- Thread starter
- #28
Duncan,
I’ve been looking at-planning and thinking through the de-glow process and on the intake manifold—the 2 after glow resistor/heating element probes: what did you find to use to plug those holes?
I can’t imagine finding stubby metric bolts that large size in the US-is it pipe thread style or?
Still searching for a glow plug source: so far none for either brand.
Thanks!
I’ve been looking at-planning and thinking through the de-glow process and on the intake manifold—the 2 after glow resistor/heating element probes: what did you find to use to plug those holes?
I can’t imagine finding stubby metric bolts that large size in the US-is it pipe thread style or?
Still searching for a glow plug source: so far none for either brand.
Thanks!
Just leave the resistors in place.
Alternative 23V glow plugs:
- Toyota 19850-68020,
- Denso DG233
- EIKO GT213
- Bosch GPT213
- HKT PT108
- MAY PT108
- JKT PT108
Glow Plug list taken from @lostmarbles thread: Which plugs should I be running - B, 2B, 3B, H and 2H diesels - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/which-plugs-should-i-be-running-b-2b-3b-h-and-2h-diesels.471567/
- Thread starter
- #30
Thankyou Duncan and Lostmarbles-
I’ll keep trying. And looking
Take care
I’ll keep trying. And looking
Take care
- Thread starter
- #31
Duncan I followed up on your wisdom: I removed much of the glow/after glow preheat system; pulled preheat timer, trimmed plug/cut harnes to timer for wiring replacement, pulled secondary afterglow solenoid, removed extra glow bus bars that drip from back of engine down to tail end of intake manifold, pulled 2-resistors from intake manifold and cut off bolt ends and intake probe ends-reinstalled (didn’t want air flow restriction or worse and end breaking off into engine).
Since we live where it gets cold to really cold 5-months of the year-even down to -20F below, I looked a bit longer for a solution beyond just the Wilson switch limited by finger press time.
I’m talking with Dan at 4Wheel Auto in Canada (really great team there!) found out that for awhile now their shop has seen a myriad of glow system failures in the 80’s era HJ/BJ cruisers-they found a solution with an Aussie product from OEX that is a simple 5-wire glow plug controller: 24v/12v options from OEX.
Basically it used existing pretimer wires (only 4 plus a wire to chassis ground).
It acts almost like Toyota glow system but only uses the primary glow 1-solenoid on fender well—plus a new heavy wire from that solenoid to #6 glow plug/bus bar.
Key on Uniates full glow then some seconds later the after glow version kicks on which are pulses for a time hen shuts off.
The nit has 2-adjustments: 1-15 seconds initial full glow and another adjustment for how many after glow pulses.
I prefer simpler than a controller but also don’t want to hold down a spring loaded button for extended times (if the OEX fails will go to Wilson switch-have old wrist injuries so painful to extend pressure/push times).
Here’s a photo of the system on and installed on the drivers kick panel with wire bundle behind through drilled hole to old pretimer bundle.
Started it a few times now and works well.
Duncan-thankyou again for your expert assistance to troubleshoot-diagnose and get me on the right track!!