200 Vs. 250 FE - Owners Perspective (1 Viewer)

[Rednexus]

There's a lot to like about the UZ engines. My only point is that if you had 10 of each and started driving them without anything more than routine maintenance - oil changes and spark plugs - my money is on the 1GRs outlasting the 2UZ. If long term reliability is the singular most important function, I'll take the 1GR.

If NVH is the goal - I'll take a washing machine full of rocks over the 1GR.

How many million-mile 1GRs are out there? I think there are at least 3-4 million-mile UZs .

https://www.motortrend.com/features/million-mile-tundra-the-tear-down/

 

[185]

Toyota currently sells the LC300 for $35k USD in Japan. There's nothing magic about it. It's metal and paint. They stamp the same parts on the same machines from the same base materials.

Delivered to the states with the chicken tax?

 

[185]

There's a lot to like about the UZ engines. My only point is that if you had 10 of each and started driving them without anything more than routine maintenance - oil changes and spark plugs - my money is on the 1GRs outlasting the 2UZ. If long term reliability is the singular most important function, I'll take the 1GR.

If NVH is the goal - I'll take a washing machine full of rocks over the 1GR.

Im taking the 1UZ, faa certified bad boy.

 

[Patassa]

How many million-mile 1GRs are out there? I think there are at least 3-4 million-mile UZs .

https://www.motortrend.com/features/million-mile-tundra-the-tear-down/

Yeah that engine sounds like it could have just kept going, tested out extremely well.

 

[Rednexus]

Yeah that engine sounds like it could have just kept going, tested out extremely well.

Mine's just getting broken in at 188K. It's in remarkably good shape and rips with a tune, exhaust, CAI, and long-tube headers. I love driving my GX with it.

Can't imagine anything remotely similar with a 1GR unless perhaps it had a supercharger. Even with that, it still won't sound as good as a UZ.

 

[Jetboy]

How many million-mile 1GRs are out there? I think there are at least 3-4 million-mile UZs .

https://www.motortrend.com/features/million-mile-tundra-the-tear-down/

Not sure. There's a 1.6 million mile 4cyl taco and a million mile v6 highlander (MZ v6 engine) and at least a handful of corollas. There may be a million mile LC70 or Prado running around out there with a 1GR, but I don't know of any. I'd still take the 1GR for though.

 

[Jetboy]

Delivered to the states with the chicken tax?

No chicken tax on a SUV. There is IIRC a 2.5% import tax. On a $45k vehicle that's $1,125. Probably less than the manufacturing cost advantage in Japan vs USA.

 

[Jetboy]

Never heard of an air injector issue on this engine, looks like it was only added to 06/07 models and can be bypassed then ignored (emissions non-sense).

All starters will eventually go out, my original one lasted over 300k miles though, PITA to replace granted. Surely the 1GR needs starters replaced eventually also?

Haven't heard much about any ECM issues.

I thought the 1GR used to blow head gaskets?

The 3VZ was pretty notorious for head gaskets. I've never heard of one on a 1GR although it almost certainly has happened at some point in 22 years and 10 million engines. It's becoming a known issue on the LC200s 5.7 apparently. Starters in the heat soaked valley on the UZ is a problem for longevity - but it's also out of the mud/water. I only know of one 1GR starter that I've heard of going out that was stuck under water for some time. Not sure how long, but it killed the starter. Might have survived on top of the engine? I'm sure there's more that have gone out. Probably hear more about the UZ ones because they are so hard to change.

 

[Rednexus]

Not sure. There's a 1.6 million mile 4cyl taco and a million mile v6 highlander (MZ v6 engine) and at least a handful of corollas. There may be a million mile LC70 or Prado running around out there with a 1GR, but I don't know of any. I'd still take the 1GR for though.

I think you need to drive a UZ powered GX side-by-side to a 1GR powered 4Runner . I honestly don't know why the 4Runner outsold the GX so much considering how much better the V8 is!

Truth be told, but I've never liked any V6 engine (and that includes ones that make a ton of power like an Ecoboost), and that includes 2 V6s that I've owned. Just don't like the sound, don't like the powerband, don't like the NVH. we have a V8 and I4 in our fleet (plus an I3 tractor) and that's fine by me.

 

[Acrad]

GX 400 with the 4.0L 1GR-FE V6 was available in China from ‘12-‘17

 

[Jetboy]

I think you need to drive a UZ powered GX side-by-side to a 1GR powered 4Runner . I honestly don't know why the 4Runner outsold the GX so much considering how much better the V8 is!

Truth be told, but I've never liked any V6 engine (and that includes ones that make a ton of power like an Ecoboost), and that includes 2 V6s that I've owned. Just don't like the sound, don't like the powerband, don't like the NVH. we have a V8 and I4 in our fleet (plus an I3 tractor) and that's fine by me.

I drove them back to back a few times. GX460 vs 5th gen 4R. If the 4Runner had the 4.6L v8 - I think it would have killed the LC200 10 years sooner. The 4Runner interior is significantly better for my use than the GX - just more useable room with a flat cargo area. And the 4R is IMO nicer to drive. The gx460 feels heavy. I assume the awd system contributes to that. I'm not a big fan of either the LC200 or GX as a daily driver because of it. They need about 50% more power steering assist to offset the awd. I think the electric power steering of the LC250 is a huge improvement in driving comfort. 4R also has the rear locker and roll down rear glass and a body that doesn't require cutting off plastic all around to start using as an offroad/adventure mobile. For me there was a complex choice, but overall I opted for 4R over a GX.

In my ideal world - Toyota would have made a Limited 4Runner with the 4.6L v8, the multimode transfer case, and rear locker. As for the LC250 - I'd love to see one with a v6 non-hybrid in a 2 row config, but with a pass through middle row like the 4R and fold flat seat setup.

I would take the v8 over the 1GR. But I don't think it will last longer. Both last long enough for me. And I'm pretty sure the turbo 4 will easily outrun either the 2UZ or the 1GR in both a race and towing a up a mountain pass.

 

[jaekim]

Not sure I agree. Status-conscious Americans don't want stripper model vehicles, and a lower-trim LC300 would be (in the view of your average fast food, big box store American), just that. I'm not saying that no-one would buy them as some would end up purchased by enthusiast like forum members as well as fleet customers looking for a large and reliable SUV. But, I don't see the "normal" fullsize SUV target market demographic (suburbanites with large families) clamoring for a more stripped-down SUV.

After all, how many lower-trim Jeep and Bronco models do you see running around? I see very, very few of them. The profit margins are lower anyway, so it's against Toyota's business interest to make them, when they can churn out a fewer number of upmarket vehicles to make the same amount of profit.

It's a very small but vocal minority that is willing to spend new car prices on a stripper model. Companies are interested in making money, yet you'll notice manufacturers are moving away from stripped out models. Nobody wants them.

 

[Rednexus]

It's a very small but vocal minority that is willing to spend new car prices on a stripper model. Companies are interested in making money, yet you'll notice manufacturers are moving away from stripped out models. Nobody wants them.

I personally don't want them either . My GX - with it's posh and leather - gets wheeled a lot and frankly I see the luxury interior as an asset as it's super comfy.

Most price-conscious Americans will just buy a used vehicle for the same price as a new stripper vehicle.

 

[TWILLY]

The $51,000 300 series referenced above are hardly "stripper" vehicles.

Rather, they're simply non-luxury spec which I think many U.S. consumers would prefer, be that for value, simplicity, or disdain for outward opulence.

 

[Corbet]

I’d buy a new lower trim 300 over a used loaded 250 as I believe many here would. But we do not represent the majority demographic that Toyota considers the target buyer in NA.

 

[dl819]

I'd still take the 1GR for though.

I think you need to drive a UZ powered GX side-by-side to a 1GR powered 4Runner .

Red, you're wasting your time. Jetboy's statement casts doubt on everything else he posts .

 

[Jetboy]

Red, you're wasting your time. Jetboy's statement casts doubt on everything else he posts .

Toyota used one of the engines in one generation of one line of LC, and used the other in every land cruiser line and still use it (a decade after dropping the other) it in the lc300. Toyota engineers seem to like one a lot more than the other.

 

[dl819]

Toyota used one of the engines in one generation of one line of LC, and used the other in every land cruiser line and still use it (a decade after dropping the other) it in the lc300. Toyota engineers seem to like one a lot more than the other.

More likely, the accountants like one a lot more than the other.

 

[rexington14]

If the 1GR was a dog in the 4R I wonder how it feels in a 300 series. Anyways the 1GR isn't perfect. Toyota still hasn't figured out how to seal the timing cover on these and other engines of this era (UR's, 2GR, etc).

Personally I'm a bigger fan of the 2GR-FE as it makes adequate power, is quiet and refined but has a nice growl to it on acceleration. But more importantly it just feels "right" in most of it's applications especially the Lexus RX and ES.

And, an AWD Rav4 with the 2GR is just nuts - I still miss that car.

 

[Rednexus]

Toyota used one of the engines in one generation of one line of LC, and used the other in every land cruiser line and still use it (a decade after dropping the other) it in the lc300. Toyota engineers seem to like one a lot more than the other.

The 2UZ-FE was never going to meet modern emissions of CAFE standards being that the UZ architecture dates to 1989. It's sole focus - when it was developed for Toyota's flagship LS400 - was durability and refinement. It did not have any modern compromises needed for our current fuel economy regulations. It's a bulletproof bubble-era engine, designed for the pleasure of it's end user, just like the 2JZ was.

It's replacement (the UR) is a compromised fuel economy and emissions engine. Still more reliable than many domestic V8s, but the main focus of those engines is regulatory compliance while providing acceptable power, not durability and smoothness like a UZ. A 1GR is certainly a good engine, but again it's focused on fuel economy and emissions. I don't disagree they are bulletproof, but that comes at the compromise of smoothness and power.

I can't imagine putting with with the NVH, sound, and powerband of a 1GR for 1 million miles. I'll gladly drive my UZ-powered GX until it succumbs to frame rust.

I think you need to spend some time with a UZ. They are not the same as a UR. You're getting peak "Old" Toyota and not modern compromise.