2 pump wonder!!

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Red9

Red9

10 Year
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Threads
5
Messages
41
Location
Canada, BC
Hey guys need some help

Been redoing the rear breaks in my 78 FJ40, did new wheel cylinders, shoes and lines. I have adjusted the rear drums as I've read to do it. Tighten evenly till the wheel doesn't turn then back them off 3 clicks. I have bled all the air out of the lines starting with the longest line which is the drivers rear on my 40. But now it doesn't seem to matter how well I bleed them, the brake pedel with not get hard till the second pump.

No matter what I do nothing seems to work, the only thing I haven't tried yet is bleeding the master cylinder. Do you think thats the problem?

-thanks
Brian
 
How long have you driven it? Sometimes I find I have to wear things in with a good 15-30 min of driving and braking before it all feels right.
 
Only driven it around the yard abit, the pedel pretty much falls to the floor the first time you press it, just seems like theres air in the system somwhere still.
 
Unless you have a pump like Seapotato you need 2 people to do this job properly. I like to put a rubber hose on the bleeder and down to a clear plastic bottle so i can see if any more air is coming out.
 
Yeah I was using 2 people, pump the pedel up till its hard, have them crack the bleeder into a clear bottle with a hose, have them close the bleeder, release the brake pedel and repeat. I was showing not air bubbles anymore, which leads me to think the master cylinder needs to be bled.
 
Master cylinder could be going to, they often don't have to actually leak out to fail. My pedal started going to the floor shortly after I bought my 70. Never lost any fluid. New mc fixed that.
 
Red9 said:
Hey guys need some help

Been redoing the rear breaks in my 78 FJ40, did new wheel cylinders, shoes and lines. I have adjusted the rear drums as I've read to do it. Tighten evenly till the wheel doesn't turn then back them off 3 clicks. I have bled all the air out of the lines starting with the longest line which is the drivers rear on my 40. But now it doesn't seem to matter how well I bleed them, the brake pedel with not get hard till the second pump.

No matter what I do nothing seems to work, the only thing I haven't tried yet is bleeding the master cylinder. Do you think thats the problem?
Click to expand...

- Brian, I have had this same experience many times with the early 40 brakes, I found that quite often air will get trapped in the new rear cylinders, my remedy was to dis assemble the wheel cylinders while still bolted to the backing plates and manualy fill them with fluid, re assemble cylinders, shoes etc. and then continue to bleed the system one last time. It always worked for me. Kind of a bad design with the fore and aft wheel cylinders and one bleeder..... Good luck!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
REDREEFER said:
- Brian, I have had this same experience many times with the early 40 brakes, I found that quite often air will get trapped in the new rear cylinders, my remedy was to dis assemble the wheel cylinders while still bolted to the backing plates and manualy fill them with fluid, re assemble cylinders, shoes etc. and then continue to bleed the system one last time. It always worked for me. Kind of a bad design with the fore and aft wheel cylinders and one bleeder..... Good luck!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I may have to do something like that. Was working on them today bled the master cylinder didn't make a difference. Also noticed that my drums are now longer round, they must be abit warped, so its makes it hard to adjust them well. Will take them into the shop tomorrow and see if they can fix them, or if I need to source some new ones.

Either way I will win with his problem, its just a matter of time, I thank all you guys for the support, its nice to be able to talk to people with real world experience on the issue.
 
Perhaps you're too far down the road, but this is part of the reason I converted to rear discs. I was look at $70x4 for cylinders, +?? for Fj45 shoes, +?? for turning the drums (or $$$$$ to replace, +brake lines = $450-500. It wasn't all that much more to convert to discs. Now callipers are $17/each, Pads $50, rotors $45/each... Less than $200 to replace all of it.
 
bikersmurf said:
Perhaps you're too far down the road, but this is part of the reason I converted to rear discs. I was look at $70x4 for cylinders, +?? for Fj45 shoes, +?? for turning the drums (or $$$$$ to replace, +brake lines = $450-500. It wasn't all that much more to convert to discs. Now callipers are $17/each, Pads $50, rotors $45/each... Less than $200 to replace all of it.
Click to expand...

In hindsight yes I would have when to disks, but I already have close to $300 invested.
 
I'm not trying to rub salt in your wounds... First time around I rebuilt the cylinders, then I swapped axles & brakes, & then I converted to disc brakes. It's a progression that many of us have gone through.

The thing I like most... I've not had to adjust brakes once in the last 20 years... A close second is that it can stop waaaay faster... Almost too fast (I worry about being rear ended).:D
 
I did the same thing... new cylinders, shoes, drums, lines, ect... ended up going disk eventually...

The change from 4wheel drum -> 4 wheel disk was unbelievable. I have to say 4 wheel disk would be among the first changes I made to any new cruiser I bought... the difference on hills, traffic, highway, with a trailer is unbelievable.
 
Steven,
Throw in an 80 master and booster, and you'll be in awe again... I can reach down and press the pedal with two fingers and lock all 4 wheels at 30 mph on dry pavement... :D

Once you're use to them, they're not grabby, just powerful.
 
So got this all sorted out now, I had to twist the cylinders 90 degrees to be able to bleed the trapped air out, I had new lines so knew they could take abit of abuse. I have brakes again so I'm happy.
-Brian
 
Reminds me of my dad telling me about his old Landrover..... Apparently LR put the brake master on an angle, to bleed it he winched the truck up a tree to a 40 or so degree angle to get the air out. Anyone remember "The Gods Must be Crazy" movie?? lol

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