Nice work....that looks freakin sweet!!!!
1964 FJ45 LB “RB1” Project
- Thread starter miker
- Start date
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Will that rear bar allow you to run the stock seats and gas tank? Or have you tried yet?
Cruiser Jimmy
Moderator
Amazing work. 
Gives me great inspiration for getting my 45 restored....once I have the time.
subscribed.
Gives me great inspiration for getting my 45 restored....once I have the time.subscribed.
- Thread starter
- #324
Stock seats are not going back in. The stock gas tank will not work without modifications. I will probably just build a new tank. I'm thinking I'll put a smaller than stock tank under the seat and then another tank under the bed.
I'm also going to have to modify the filler neck area to allow more room for the rear roll cage hoop.
I think it was last March or April when I was at the point where I was just about to get all this figured out when a lot of other things have taken priority. I'm hoping to get back to this 45 soon.
Get back soon - I also need your masterful work for review/inspiration when the going gets tough.
- Thread starter
- #326
Get back soon - I also need your masterful work for review/inspiration when the going gets tough.
Ahh, Grasshopper, I think it is time for you to leave the temple.
Or in other words, you have the skills!
I've been watching your thread and your work IS inspiring.
Ahh, Grasshopper, I think it is time for you to leave the temple.
Or in other words, you have the skills!
I've been watching your thread and your work IS inspiring.
2x
- Thread starter
- #328
Searched and really didn't find anything on this topic. This thread also might not be the best place to post this question but since the question is regarding this build, thought I'd start here. I've been thinking about gearing and what ratio would be best for the transfercase and how low might be too low with an automatic.... 
Drivetrain is SBC, 700r4, Toybox + Orion
I have 3.70 R&Ps aleady setup so I plan to use those for awhile. I might go lower later to 4.11 or 4.56. Tires will be 36" or 37" so I might find the 3.70 gears a little tall for on-road driving. I picked up a used Toybox and it has the stock 2.28:1 gearing. I'm planning to keep it at that. I don't think I need anything lower for a doubler.
I can get the Orion with 4:1 or 3:1. I'm thinking that 4:1 with the Toybox might be too much gearing basically leaving me with the 2.28:1 OR 4:1 as useful but the rediculous ratio of 9.12:1 compund low (transfercase x toybox) might be too much to have any practical useage.
If I get the Orion in the 3:1 ratio then the compound low seems a little more reasonable at 6.84:1 but it still seems to be a lot of gearing with an automatic trans.
I suppose I could run a stock transfercase at 2:1 or 2.31:1 but then that means either the Toybox or the transfercase are really the same gearing and they don't each provide something unique for a gear selection and I was hoping to have 3 low range ratios with this setup.
so, here's the options I'm looking at and final low/low/low ratios:
R&P x 700r4 x Toybox x Orion =
3.70 x 3.06 x 2.28 x 4 = 103:1
or
3.70 x 3.06 x 2.28 x 3 = 77:1
I'm thinking that the 103:1 will be too much gearing and maybe the 3:1 is a better choice where 77:1 might be useful on some occasions.
Another way to look at it is:
Choice 1 = transfercase + toybox ratios: 2.28:1 or 3:1 or 6.84:1
Choice 2 = transfercase + toybox ratios: 2.28:1 or 4:1 or 9.12:1
Any opinions?
Drivetrain is SBC, 700r4, Toybox + Orion
I have 3.70 R&Ps aleady setup so I plan to use those for awhile. I might go lower later to 4.11 or 4.56. Tires will be 36" or 37" so I might find the 3.70 gears a little tall for on-road driving. I picked up a used Toybox and it has the stock 2.28:1 gearing. I'm planning to keep it at that. I don't think I need anything lower for a doubler.
I can get the Orion with 4:1 or 3:1. I'm thinking that 4:1 with the Toybox might be too much gearing basically leaving me with the 2.28:1 OR 4:1 as useful but the rediculous ratio of 9.12:1 compund low (transfercase x toybox) might be too much to have any practical useage.
If I get the Orion in the 3:1 ratio then the compound low seems a little more reasonable at 6.84:1 but it still seems to be a lot of gearing with an automatic trans.
I suppose I could run a stock transfercase at 2:1 or 2.31:1 but then that means either the Toybox or the transfercase are really the same gearing and they don't each provide something unique for a gear selection and I was hoping to have 3 low range ratios with this setup.
so, here's the options I'm looking at and final low/low/low ratios:
R&P x 700r4 x Toybox x Orion =
3.70 x 3.06 x 2.28 x 4 = 103:1
or
3.70 x 3.06 x 2.28 x 3 = 77:1
I'm thinking that the 103:1 will be too much gearing and maybe the 3:1 is a better choice where 77:1 might be useful on some occasions.
Another way to look at it is:
Choice 1 = transfercase + toybox ratios: 2.28:1 or 3:1 or 6.84:1
Choice 2 = transfercase + toybox ratios: 2.28:1 or 4:1 or 9.12:1
Any opinions?
Last edited:
With the doubling kind of effect you get from the auto's TC, I don't think I'd even run a 2nd case. 4:1 Orion + 700r4. There is also the engine to consider. The 454 made up for a lot of slack in gearing in the 45 (465/205 drivetrain w/4.11s & 37s). I think the 350/700 is going to provide a lot smoother and flexible application of power/torque that isn't there in a manual shift transmission.
50-60:1 is about all I've ever needed in a practical sense with maybe a very few times wanting crazy low into the 100+:1 range. This is wheeling all kinds of difficulty trails in a lot of different drivetrains and trucks. The A440 that was in the FJ62 was my favorite of all time to wheel though it wasn't setup to be as capable as the harder core trucks in the stable.
Going with very mild gearing in the dual cases would be my pick if you are married to dual cases.
50-60:1 is about all I've ever needed in a practical sense with maybe a very few times wanting crazy low into the 100+:1 range. This is wheeling all kinds of difficulty trails in a lot of different drivetrains and trucks. The A440 that was in the FJ62 was my favorite of all time to wheel though it wasn't setup to be as capable as the harder core trucks in the stable.
Going with very mild gearing in the dual cases would be my pick if you are married to dual cases.
- Thread starter
- #330
In my 40 I have a Th400 and Orion 4:1 with no doubler. Final ratio about 41:1. I find it to be just fine for most trails except when 1:1 high range is not low enough but 4:1 low range is too much gearing. Sure, the 4:1 gets the job done but a slower pace than I'd like. So, the option of having the 2:1 low range as well as something lower is very appealing.
I've started down the doubler path and have most of the pieces to make this setup work so I'm probably going to stick with it. The wheelbase is long enough where the doubler will actually help in terms of driveline length and angles. Maybe I'm just talking myself into it as well.
And then there's the "cool factor" for me. Might not be so cool to others but I've always wanted a doubler to try it out but again, my main reason for doing it this way is to have the ability to shift down to about a 2:1 low range and then something lower for the really technical stuff as well as providing some better compression braking with the auto.
BTW, thanks for the feedback. I think you are saying that 100+:1 with an auto is crazy low which is what I was thinking as well.
I've started down the doubler path and have most of the pieces to make this setup work so I'm probably going to stick with it. The wheelbase is long enough where the doubler will actually help in terms of driveline length and angles. Maybe I'm just talking myself into it as well.
And then there's the "cool factor" for me. Might not be so cool to others but I've always wanted a doubler to try it out but again, my main reason for doing it this way is to have the ability to shift down to about a 2:1 low range and then something lower for the really technical stuff as well as providing some better compression braking with the auto.
BTW, thanks for the feedback. I think you are saying that 100+:1 with an auto is crazy low which is what I was thinking as well.
I had 4.7 gears in my wagon toybox behind the 700r4 with a splitcase from the Fj62 and it was WAY too low.. could not hold the thing back with 4wheel disks.. I swapped back to 2.28 in the toybox.
Figure the auto will double whatever you have.. In my 40 I had the H41, 4.7 toybox and splitcase. I normally just used the 4.7 gears and left the tcase in 1:1. Stupid low is a great way to just break stuff. Or off camber.. if it binds at all in stupid low it will break something.
I'd stick with the 2.28 in the toybox and skip the orion and just put in a splitcase to save the $. Unless you already have the orion. You can easily swap to the 4.7's if you feel the need.
Oops noticed you already have the rear adapter. You might see if the rear plate for the 3spd/4spd/Orion is the same as the splitcase plate and just change the output shaft to the splitcase spline count. It'd probably be cheaper than the orion case and just as strong. Food for thought. Earlier split cases were 2:1 and later were 2.28 to one.
If there is a way what I wish I had done is put in some sort of valve body in the auto that locked it into one particular gear. Or a reverse valve body to go from neutral to 1st instead of drive. Wasn't all that versed in those black boxes called auto's when I put all that stuff in my wagon.
Figure the auto will double whatever you have.. In my 40 I had the H41, 4.7 toybox and splitcase. I normally just used the 4.7 gears and left the tcase in 1:1. Stupid low is a great way to just break stuff. Or off camber.. if it binds at all in stupid low it will break something.
I'd stick with the 2.28 in the toybox and skip the orion and just put in a splitcase to save the $. Unless you already have the orion. You can easily swap to the 4.7's if you feel the need.
Oops noticed you already have the rear adapter. You might see if the rear plate for the 3spd/4spd/Orion is the same as the splitcase plate and just change the output shaft to the splitcase spline count. It'd probably be cheaper than the orion case and just as strong. Food for thought. Earlier split cases were 2:1 and later were 2.28 to one.
If there is a way what I wish I had done is put in some sort of valve body in the auto that locked it into one particular gear. Or a reverse valve body to go from neutral to 1st instead of drive. Wasn't all that versed in those black boxes called auto's when I put all that stuff in my wagon.
- Thread starter
- #332
Thanks for the info and feedback.
I don't think the adapter I have will work for a split case. I might look into what it would take to convert it but I think it means purchasing a whole new adapter. I can also just run a stock 1-piece t-case for awhile to see how I like it and then swap it out for an Orion later.
If I purchase the Orion, then the 3:1 is the way I'll go. Just thinking that an ultimate combo with an auto might be a doubler setup with about a 1.5:1 in the doubler and about a 3:1 in the transfercase giving low ranges of 1.5x, 3x, and 4.5x
I also agree with you on the auto gearing selection. I was thinking about installing a manual valve body in the th400 in my 40 so I could keep the tranny in 2nd or 3rd if I wanted. On the trail, while in low range, I try to anticipate the shift points and let off the gas a little. This actually helps the trans to shift by momentarily increasing the vacuum but it also eases the impact of the shift on the drive train.
I also thought about the reverse valve body as well putting first gear next to neutral. I guess the biggest drawbacks of the manual valve body is that it means you have to shift the trans all the time while on the street.
"I don't think the adapter I have will work for a split case"
I honestly cannot remember. I"ve only used the split case adapters. From my recollection the cases all have the same bolt patterns but different spline counts. So.. Might be worth a call to Marlin or holler at Cruizilla..
The front will all be the same.. The mini box stuff will all be the same.. You might get away with just swapping the tail shaft out of the toybox. Toyboxes are like lego's.. That's the best part of using one.. Pick a front and or a back and go all sorts of different routes.
Just ideas since you asked. Not trying to influence you one direction or another but I never broke a splitcase. Have seen many nose cones and 3-4spd cases broken tho. ANd from my recollection the orion is kinda pricy when you have more options with marlins stuff.
I honestly cannot remember. I"ve only used the split case adapters. From my recollection the cases all have the same bolt patterns but different spline counts. So.. Might be worth a call to Marlin or holler at Cruizilla..
The front will all be the same.. The mini box stuff will all be the same.. You might get away with just swapping the tail shaft out of the toybox. Toyboxes are like lego's.. That's the best part of using one.. Pick a front and or a back and go all sorts of different routes.
Just ideas since you asked. Not trying to influence you one direction or another but I never broke a splitcase. Have seen many nose cones and 3-4spd cases broken tho. ANd from my recollection the orion is kinda pricy when you have more options with marlins stuff.
- Thread starter
- #334
In order to support the roll cage and also to replace the cab's rear wall and floor supports, I used a 2x4 rectangle tube under the cab, and a 3/16" plate on the inside floor. I made new inner cab corner supports and I'll have several vertical supports to support the rear wall.
The 2x4 tube under the cab also acts as the cab to frame mount points since I've also removed the original cab to frame 'x' bracket mounts.
There are 4 places where the cage will bolt to the rear floor. I plan to tie the inner 2 mounts to the frame using urethane bushings for some flex between the cab and frame.
Some pictures...
.
The 2x4 tube under the cab also acts as the cab to frame mount points since I've also removed the original cab to frame 'x' bracket mounts.
There are 4 places where the cage will bolt to the rear floor. I plan to tie the inner 2 mounts to the frame using urethane bushings for some flex between the cab and frame.
Some pictures...
.
- Thread starter
- #335
There will be a vertical support next to each corner support.
Looks real solid, I like it.
Looks great Mike.
You said in an earlier post you were going to modify the gas tank and filler neck area. Are you going to make a new tank for under the seat or go to one that mounts underneath the bed? I like how you eliminated the box area behind the seats and stiffened things up with the plate.
You said in an earlier post you were going to modify the gas tank and filler neck area. Are you going to make a new tank for under the seat or go to one that mounts underneath the bed? I like how you eliminated the box area behind the seats and stiffened things up with the plate.
- Thread starter
- #339
The filler neck is partially in the way of where I will be putting the cage so I will have to eliminate the filler or move/modify it. Right now, I'm thinking that I'll have a smaller tank in the cab under the seat and another one under the bed. Although, I'm not yet 100% on two tanks. If I can get one tank under the bed that's large enough then I'll probably not put one in the cab.
And, yes, I was planning an attempt to make my own tank(s). I've never made a tank but thought I'd give it a try. I'd really like to get a tig so maybe a tank project will spur me into getting one.
Mike
- Thread starter
- #340
Thanks, but I think you exaggerate.
It took me a long time to figure out how I was going to brace the cab the roll bar. I think a better fabricator would have had this figured out long ago.
