Ford V8, 351, 390, or 460? (1 Viewer)

I've decided that I am going to piece together the parts to swap in a Ford V8 sometime in the next 2-4 years, I know Chevy 350 would probably be the easiest since it has been done several times, but I know Ford engines better and can get either of those 3 engines for cheap.

The Marks Adapter for the Ford to the A440 is the same for all, I have to beef up the axles (portals probably), VB job and possible rebuild of the A440, and make up throttle linkages and motor mounts.

Price and trouble of the swap seems about the same, but I cant decide if the 351 is enough, or if the 460 is too much, and pretty much just want thoughts on which I should head towords.

5.29s and longs/chromoly OR Volvo portals w/5.99s
Orion (if it comes out) OR lower t-case gears
38-40" tires
DD, but gas doesn't matter THAT much

I'd personally go with the 351W, seems like plenty of power, and that's what my buddy's 68 Mustang has... The thing is a rocketship.

460. If you are putting in the big block and weight, as might as well as have the displacement.

How much more fat than the 3FE has is the 460 going to add? Will beefed up stock axles or volvos handle the power, or should I look into Humm9s or Portal-Teks?

You need to be in the Hard Core forum, I'd say this qualifies. They deal with questions like these all the time. Not that you need to leave us at all, this is gonna be good!

-Spike

As another option... you should look at the either the GM 5.3/4L60E or 6.0/4L80E pullouts from a salvage yard. Fuel injected, iron block/aluminum headed torquey motors. My friend recently purchased a 19K mile 6.0/4L80E combo for under $2K. These engines are approx 550lbs (iron block is about 100lbs more than LS1/LS2 alum block).

When you add up all the little things when doing a conversion... buy something that is as complete as possible. It is the little things that will nickel/dime you to death.

If you run an FJ60 Tcase with adapter you can keep the stock front/rear axles as well. Most GM 6.0 truck owners report avg fuel economy in the 11-13mpg range with a medium foot. Not that good but lots of power.

alkaline747trio said:

How much more fat than the 3FE has is the 460 going to add? Will beefed up stock axles or volvos handle the power, or should I look into Humm9s or Portal-Teks?

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You should look into a different rig

One thing I will tell you is that if you want factory EFI the Fords are a real PITA. I'm working on a 351W EFI out of a 94 F150 and putting it into a 74 Bronco for a client. The wiring harness and computer remap was $1100 whereas for a Chevy it would be about $400. And the harness is major POS. If I were to do an EFI Ford again I'd be looking at the Edlebrock system. Cheaper and easier even with a 2k price tag. I absolutely see no reason to take a non EFI motor and put it in a truck that was originally EFI as that is a step backwards.

I really think using the Toyota tranny is a waste of money for a V8 application. It seems folks are always having problems with them after they stick a V8 in. And it costs a lot for that adapter. And then you are looking at upgraded valve bodies and torque converters. All of which costs a lot. I think money could be spent better other places.

One issue you will have with the Ford E4OD if you choose to go that route is that it is very long. Very Very long. I'm thinking it was almost 10" longer than a Chevy 700r4. We ended up switch to an AOD as it is much shorter.

The rear axle should be fine unless you are building a 500 hp motor or something crazy like that. The front will of course break birfields and then eventually ring and pinions. It all depends on how much HP, tire, and throttle you use as to how long the front axle will last. It might just last forever.

One thing I think a lot of folks don't realize is how much this stuff costs. I bet this Bronco goes 15k by the time it is done. Radiators, Exhaust, Motor Mounts, Adapters, Wiring, Fans, Fuel Pumps, sometimes gas tanks, Oil coolers, Tranny coolers, Driveshafts etc... This stuff adds up. I bet you will be looking at $500 just in exhaust for a project like this with all the bends to fit around the adapters and frame and mounts.

Personally I wouldn't piss away money on a project like this as it will be a never ending money grabbing PITA the whole time of ownership. I've been there and done that (350TBI in a 60). The 80 just further complicates matters with the Full Time TC and how the suspension brackets work. If it were me and I had a dieing 3FE I'd look at picking up one of these 1FZEs out of one of these rigs everyone seems to be parting out right now. They can't hardly give them away. I'd get the whole thing motor, tranny, transfer, and wiring. Even the speedo! These are all parts that are easily found on rolled 80s someone is parting without the headache of huge adaptations and they are pretty Cheap. Here in Idaho there is a guy with a full 1FZE, tranny, TC, wiring harness and computer for $1000. You could change the headgasket and add a supercharger and still be money ahead. Granted not 500 hp but you wouldn't be trying to figure out which axles to run either.

On this Bronco it isn't so bad as it is Ford and Ford. We ended up lucky. The fuel tank was retrofitted with the correct pump. Exhaust bolts up, Motor Mounts are the same, Driveshafts are going to be near perfect, but this truck was originally an Auto and originally a V8. We are going from a 302 carb to a 351 EFI and switching to OD tranny.

You need a deeper pipe

I'll jump on the GM bandwagon too, but that wasn't your question, so:

From a parts availability and cost standpoint, you would have to be mostly stupid to build an FE. The 460 will make plenty of torque, but with the cheap 351 stroker kits and top end kits out there you can get to 408 easily and it will make enough torque and horsepower to satisfy your needs. This is a no-brainer (outside of the fact that you want to use Ford power ).

i think a ford v8 is going to be a complete pain in the balls for you. i've dealt with ford efi systems too. i hate them in every way possible. gm stuff isnt so bad, you have people at howell and other places that will give you a close to plug and play harness.

i really don't think a yota tranny is going to hold up to a big block for you either. I also don't think the viscous coupler in the tcase is going to last either. you're talking about more than doubling the horsepower and torque numbers, that means all of those drivetrain parts that are still toyota will wear twice as fast.

if you were going to go big, spend a s***-ton and didn't care, i'd throw a 524 in it. i had a carbed 524 in a 63 lincoln continental. before i did rear axle beefing i stripped the teeth off the ring gear somehow. woot!

p.s. a daily driver with portals, 40s and a 460? i think you need to buy yourself a freakin honda for a DD. with all that money invested in this rig, daily driving it would just put you in the poorhouse or the nuthouse.

turbo deisel.

TiredIronGRB said:

You need a deeper pipe

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and more crack to put in it!

I think for what you are planning on doing, the only viable option is to put a diesel in your truck. I know fuel economy isn't going to be your primary concern but I bet a rig you are proposing with portals and any of the ford engines you mention will get as little as 2-4 mpg when wheeling, and I bet not much more than 6 DD. Unless you own an oil refinery or are so wealthy it doesn't matter, that has to be a factor in your thought process.

concretejungle said:

and more crack to put in it!

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Yeah Baby

Well, DD is all relevant. I'm gonna be in college, so that puts DD at about 0 miles a day. I do have a honda if'n I need to drive somewhere far off. I like Fords, and know Ford motors, and just prefer them.

This will be carburetted, not FI; so all it will be is throttle linkages. If the A440 wont hold up, what tranny will? AND fit (driveshafts can be made, but I don't really want to mess with axles unless it's portals I'm throwing in.

I dont want GM, and I don't want diesel (just another can of worms to open and learn about). I don't have a VC t-case, and if I were to keep the stock tranny I would have one of those future Orions behind it. If I do a swap it will either be a 2F block under a worked 3FE head, or a Ford gas V8. Any other Yota motor will be a pain in the ass to do with the fuel injection, I really just dont want to deal with much wiring or else I would consider one of those iForce V8s.

Building up the 351 is an option, but I was just thinking (blindly) that the 3FE was closer to the BB than the SB engine in weight. But if the 351 is close in weight, and built up cheap will give me plenty of power, then I'm all for it.

Axles will be stock w/ Longs, chromo, and 5.29s or 7.1 Volvos.
Suspension will be either stock w/ x-link or a 3-link front w/ coil-overs.

This is my project, if it takes 5 years and $10k more than I am expecting, then oh well. I've got a Samurai in mind to tide me over if need be. This 80 is going to be my expedition, hard (not extreme) rock-crawling, camping, beaching, mudding, whatever vehicle. I'm not setting myself a dead-line to start or even finish this, I just need to get a plan and a list and thoughts and ideas.

It sounds like 'blank' Ford tranny, 'blank' t-case, and 460 or built 351W is the consensus of best direction. What tranny/t-case combo will fit with PS offset axles and not shorten my front driveshaft?

Funny, Ford fuel injections systems are fairly simple.. For being a tpi system it is not complex. And can handle a lot of HP.

Personaly I love the Windsor ferd motors.. The 351 can be bored and stroked to 426 relativly easily.

Block patterns between the SB and BB are different. Hell, even the clevland 351 has a different pattern than the 351 windsor does.. Does the adapter have multiple holes drilled in it?


I would keep it with the stock injectors. With a MAF sensor. You can easily hit over 400 hp with a stock computer (no mapping necessary)

I always thought the A440 was a stout tranny and the split tcase is Very stout.

If not, do a 351/C4/203/splittcase and be done with it.

alkaline747trio said:

I dont want GM, and I don't want diesel (just another can of worms to open and learn about).

This is my project, if it takes 5 years and $10k more than I am expecting, then oh well. I've got a Samurai in mind to tide me over if need be. This 80 is going to be my expedition, hard (not extreme) rock-crawling, camping, beaching, mudding, whatever vehicle. I'm not setting myself a dead-line to start or even finish this, I just need to get a plan and a list and thoughts and ideas.

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Given your stated goals, I would think reliability would be your main concern. My two cents, stick with the 3fe mildly built up, or learn about diesels. 5mpg doesn't take your expedition very far, neither does a carburetor with a plugged jet.

cary said:

Given your stated goals, I would think reliability would be your main concern. My two cents, stick with the 3fe mildly built up, or learn about diesels. 5mpg doesn't take your expedition very far, neither does a carburetor with a plugged jet.

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And a plugged injector is any better??

Carbs are easy.. 5 mpg??

Mace said:

And a plugged injector is any better??

Carbs are easy.. 5 mpg??

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It is pretty difficult to plug an injector outright when in the field. Even if one is partially plugged, the vehicle will still run ok, unlike a clogged carb jet.

5mpg, that is about what he will get with a carbed 351c, 390, or 460.