2h ring failure, causes?

[Frosty2086]

G'day all,

I headed on a trip to mainland Australia (I live in tassy, island below Aus) and as i pulled out of Beechworth the engine started making a new ticking/clacking sound. I turned her off staright away and pulled the rocker cover to see if anything obvious had cut loose. No luck. To make a long story short i got my truck back home, via flat tray, ferries, a police fine and some entertainment.

I pulled the engine over the weekend and this is what i found in number 1 cylinder. Does not look good. This is the first engine i have ever re-built and would love some of the wisdom on the guys on this site to give me some ideas why this may have happened. I though something was up but had not nailed it down, the symptoms before failure were....

• She blew smoke (blue/white ish) each morning, and it seemed to be in time with a cylinder firing (perhaps #1?
• Once warm she ran nice, i never took it above 3000RPM and drove generally between 1800-2000 RPM.
• I have only owned it for 12,000km, so short term really.
• The bores seem glazed to me (i cannot see any hone marks).
• The car has 410,000km on it, engine is unknown but not original engine (engine number was different on rego slips).
• She always ran cool less than a quarter on temp gauge.
• Oil pressure was good.
• Injectors were done 10,000km ago
• I did oil changes every 5000km, but that means nothing over its life i suppose!
• When i bought it it had a defect notice on it for blowing smoke. I purchased it cheap (2k) and put new injectors in and passed it over the pits that day. However she still blew a little smoke so i wound fuel back a smidge, so she only blew smoke under acceleration.
• Compression when i bought it (at 400,000km) was good on all 6 cylinders. Within 5-10psi (from memory) of manufacturer spec.

So inside i found #1 piston had blown top ring out, no scoring in bore (in my un-informed opinion), one dent where it happened i suspect, it is right at the bottom of the stroke.

Of the internals the cam shaft and rockers are the most worn most exhaust lobes are 0.4mm below minimum spec. Intakes are about 0.2mm below minimum spec. Bearings (conrod and main) are within spec, but i will replace i think anyways. Rocker arms are stuffed, big pit hole where the push rood runs, probably 1-2mm deep at the worst.

Im interested in peoples thoughts on this. I am taking the block and head to a shop to get it machined as my little mill would not cut it, will be painting and rebuilding as i go! And here are some pictures of the start...

Cheers and sorry for the essay! Just thought i would give as much info as i can!

Frosty

 

[Frosty2086]

More pictures

 

[roscoFJ73]

Sounds like it was just worn out. The previous owner probably installed it to replace the original worn out engine.
It may have had almost as many klms as the original.

A engine kit and some machining and it will be as good as new

 

[blis]

Looks like typical ring failure of 2H, althou I'm surprised it happened at such low mileage... Probaply caused by lack of maintenance by previous owners or serious abuse down the road...

Throw in new (reinforced) pistons, rings, bearings and some caskets and you should be back on the road in no time... I've heard some people have managed to fix the rocker arms by welding them and then machining back to spec, same goes for camshaft or you could always look up for new/less used...

 

[Frosty2086]

Hey Rosco,

Cheers for the quick response. That is my initial feelings too, however i was worried about the Camshaft being undersized. Do you have any knowledge in this area regarding re-placing? Im guessing a new camshaft will not be cheap, any one have any idea on this?

And some more pics...

Before and after of my injection pump. Gave her a bit of a tidy up. Is it worth getting it re-built? Very pricey trip to the shop that one, i am assuming if it was running fine before hand their should be no reason to do so?

A shot of my lifter with the worst pitting...i figure these should be replaced. Thoughts?

Cheers

Frosty

 

[roscoFJ73]

Hey Rosco,

Cheers for the quick response. That is my initial feelings too, however i was worried about the Camshaft being undersized. Do you have any knowledge in this area regarding re-placing? Im guessing a new camshaft will not be cheap, any one have any idea on this?


Cheers

Frosty

I would get a good used one and get a machinist to redo the profile. I dont think one will be too hard to find.
Try Toyhatsu in Melbourne or ask an engine reconditioner if he can source one and get him to do the profiling.
Used 2H parts are cheap as chips on the mainland if you shop around.
Engines Australia have good aftermarket kits for these,$700-800. I think they have a branch in Tas

 

[vwluv10338]

Well this seems very familiar. Sounds like my engine a bit. I never thought to check the cam lobes and now I wish I had. My build thread is in my sig.

 

[Frosty2086]

Hey Guys,

Awesome thanks for all the help. I am taking my block to an engine machinist in launceston here, who by all accounts is very good. I am going to get him to do the valves, head, pre-combustion cambers, bore, and hone. Also purchase the pistons through him so i know they will be the right match for the amount he bores it out. I figure i will take along a my camshaft and get his input on that too. That leaves me with a list as follows

• Bore and hone cylinders
• Machine head, re-seat valves etc.
• Acid dip block and head
• New Pre-combustion chambers
• New/reconditioned rocker arms
• New pistons with alfin inserts
• New con-rod bearings
• New main bearings and thrust plate
• New camshaft bearings
• New lifters
• New filters
• New belts

New engine??

Lot of things their. Any thoughts on whether i should take the fuel pump in to be checked out?

vwluv - yep i have spent a fair bit of time going over your thread, unfortunately i dont have a bead blaster and powder coater. Would love to, but at the moment it is all elbow grease and petro chemicals. Here is some of tonight's work below, before and after on the intake manifold. Just waiting on the paint to arrive now i have de-greased and prepped a bunch of parts!

Rosco - Have already emailed engines australia with a tentative parts list, i await to hear back from them. Are they OK for price and quality?

Any ways, thanks for the help!

Cheers

Frosty

 

[roscoFJ73]

Hey Guys,

Awesome thanks for all the help. I am taking my block to an engine machinist in launceston here, who by all accounts is very good. I am going to get him to do the valves, head, pre-combustion cambers, bore, and hone. Also purchase the pistons through him so i know they will be the right match for the amount he bores it out. I figure i will take along a my camshaft and get his input on that too. That leaves me with a list as follows

• Bore and hone cylinders
• Machine head, re-seat valves etc.
• Acid dip block and head
• New Pre-combustion chambers
• New/reconditioned rocker arms
• New pistons with alfin inserts
• New con-rod bearings
• New main bearings and thrust plate
• New camshaft bearings
• New lifters
• New filters
• New belts

New engine??

Lot of things their. Any thoughts on whether i should take the fuel pump in to be checked out?

vwluv - yep i have spent a fair bit of time going over your thread, unfortunately i dont have a bead blaster and powder coater. Would love to, but at the moment it is all elbow grease and petro chemicals. Here is some of tonight's work below, before and after on the intake manifold. Just waiting on the paint to arrive now i have de-greased and prepped a bunch of parts!

Rosco - Have already emailed engines australia with a tentative parts list, i await to hear back from them. Are they OK for price and quality?

Any ways, thanks for the help!

Cheers

Frosty

That sounds like a plan. When you buy the engine kit ,you get the pistons as well. Couldnt the machinist tell you what oversize to order?
The owner of Engines Australia is a mechanical engineer. He has drawn up a list of specs and has the parts made in Taiwan,but I think some parts are still from Japan. Im a big fan of Taiwanese parts (and tools).They are the new Japan
A fuel pump check would be a nice touch.
When I had my engine rebuilt,I had the surfaces of the manifolds machined so they were perfectly flat. One of them,probably the exhaust,was quite distorted.
You could probably check them by putting a straight edge across the surface.

 

[vwluv10338]

Hey Guys,

Awesome thanks for all the help. I am taking my block to an engine machinist in launceston here, who by all accounts is very good. I am going to get him to do the valves, head, pre-combustion cambers, bore, and hone. Also purchase the pistons through him so i know they will be the right match for the amount he bores it out. I figure i will take along a my camshaft and get his input on that too. That leaves me with a list as follows

• Bore and hone cylinders
• Machine head, re-seat valves etc.
• Acid dip block and head
• New Pre-combustion chambers
• New/reconditioned rocker arms
• New pistons with alfin inserts
• New con-rod bearings
• New main bearings and thrust plate
• New camshaft bearings
• New lifters
• New filters
• New belts

New engine??

Lot of things their. Any thoughts on whether i should take the fuel pump in to be checked out?

vwluv - yep i have spent a fair bit of time going over your thread, unfortunately i dont have a bead blaster and powder coater. Would love to, but at the moment it is all elbow grease and petro chemicals. Here is some of tonight's work below, before and after on the intake manifold. Just waiting on the paint to arrive now i have de-greased and prepped a bunch of parts!

Rosco - Have already emailed engines australia with a tentative parts list, i await to hear back from them. Are they OK for price and quality?

Any ways, thanks for the help!

Cheers

Frosty

Honestly I feel like I wasted a lot of time with the powder. My engine looked great but my engine bay is crap so its kind of all lost. Honestly I would just want it to run right, its not a show car. I was just making a comment because all of the damage is similar and typical apparently. I replaced one rocker and three lifters. I would have liked to have done all my rockers and shaft but they were expensive.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Honestly I feel like I wasted a lot of time with the powder. My engine looked great but my engine bay is crap so its kind of all lost. .

My 1HZ rebuild look good with just a coat of paint the rebuilder applied.It was still looking good (under the dust) 6 years later.
It was the sandblasted manifolds,new gaskets,new coolant pipe and a few other new shiny things that stood out against the black and made it look cool.

 

[keving]

Looks like typical ring failure of 2H, althou I'm surprised it happened at such low mileage... Probaply caused by lack of maintenance by previous owners or serious abuse down the road...

Throw in new (reinforced) pistons, rings, bearings and some caskets and you should be back on the road in no time... I've heard some people have managed to fix the rocker arms by welding them and then machining back to spec, same goes for camshaft or you could always look up for new/less used...

"typical"??? Do 2H engines go through rings on a regular basis? I have heard of MANY more 2H rebuilds compared to B series...

 

[amaurer]

"typical"??? Do 2H engines go through rings on a regular basis? I have heard of MANY more 2H rebuilds compared to B series...

At least several times on this forum.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/469846-my-2h-trashed.html

Having personally seen his truck, I agree that the low compression in number 1 is the result of worn rings. The number one pistons ring lands were completely beaten open and way out of spec.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...2249-stuck-piston-ring-diagnostic-help-h.html

I've been told that most of the aftermarket pistons for the H series engines have a steel insert in the top compression ring groove to alleviate this common problem. I don't think it's unique to the H. Apparently the 2H and 12HT pistons do the same thing. It must be the stock alloy that Toyota uses.

It seems that the B series doesn't have the problem. No idea why.

 

[Greg_B]

It seems that the B series doesn't have the problem. No idea why.

Piston Skirt Coolers?

gb

 

[Frosty2086]

Hey guys,

Spoke to a local diesel shop about the injectors and pump today. Essentially to do a re-build on the pump (replacing a worn parts etc.) and a tune up/clean etc. would be worst case $700-800 for the pump and $300 for the injectors to get re-set.

Whats this compare to what others have had done and the cost?

The block and head goes to the machinist tomorrow!

Cheers

Frosty

 

[roscoFJ73]

Thats sounds about normal for an inline pump.The injector price sounds reasonable if he is putting new tips in. I wouldnt really pay $300 for him to clean and check them. Normally they are about $60 each for a recon injector,maybe he does them for $50

 

[vwluv10338]

I think I was around $800 or so for my pump and injectors. I would have to pull out the paperwork to be sure but that was for new injector tips and recondition my pump. They didnt have to do anything to the pump but clean and tune for the most part. That was a nice surprise.

 

[prado t]

12H-Ts have piston skirt coolers. I seem to recall the picture with the worn 12H-T ring lands.


Try Alfin , they make a nice piston

 

[Frosty2086]

Hey,

Not much news just waiting on the machinist to get back to me. Here is a pic of the first coat of paint on some of the brackets...cleaning is slowly progressing.

Does anyone know a good clearcoat to spray over aluminium so it maintains its shine? Looking at doing the manifold, timing cover and rocker cover like that...will see though!

Cheers

Frosty

 

[crushers]

IF i was rebuilding it then i would sleeve the engine.
piston oiling might have helped (as per Greg's post)
2H engines have a habit of eating into the cylinder walls

2H also have a need to get the oil relief valve swapped

then REGULAR 5000 km oil changes and the engine should outlast the truck.