80 Series K&N vs. OEM Air Filter (1 Viewer)

[corsair23]

Not sure if this is tech or chat but here goes...

I was doing some PM on the '97 FZJ80 today. While waiting for the AT fluid to drain out I decided to put in my new OEM Air Filter (thanks CDan) and take out whatever the PO had in there.

BTW, I know most folks say to remove the air cleaner hose so you don't crack it but I've found that by simply loosening the clamp at the throttle body you can rotate the hose and the air cleaner cap enough to easily remove the air filter without putting stress on the hose.

Anyway, when I pulled the old filter out I noticed a fair amount of oily grime on both the top and the bottom of the air filter and in the bottom of the can itself. I recognized the look of the filter as that of a K&N and sure enough, when I wiped away the grime from the top of the air filter it was clearly marked K&N. The other thing I noticed was that the size of the K&N air filter was considerably smaller than the OEM air filter.

I've read various threads on MUD regarding K&N air filters and about not using them due to the oil in the filter getting into the hose, MAF, etc. Based on what I saw I would have to agree 100% with those that warn against using a K&N (ran one for years on my '99 Durango thinking it was the best air filter out there ).

I don't recall seeing pictures in the previous threads I've read so here are some pictures showing the obvious size difference between the filters and of the grime that I wiped off the air filter and out of the air filter can. The shop wipe with the oil on it is the one I used to wipe off the filter. The other two were used to clean out the air filter can. I used BOTH sides of the shop wipes and the other side looked about the same as what you see grime wise

P.S. The K&N is going to a Rising Sun Club Member to do some comparison tests

.

 

[RavenTai]

yep the size difference is substantial,


Could I make a request? could you measure the surface area of the two? I also removed a PO installed K&N but I did not think to measure it before sending it away.

due to having more and larger pleats I have a guestimate that the OEM filter has maybe twice the area of the K&N

so if you could, pleat height x pleat width X number of pleats for both.

if you just want to measure the K&N I do have a spare OEM around but probably best for the same person to do measurements on both

 

[pulse98]

That new OEM filter looks great, I gotta get me one. My 80 came with some Korean generic paper filter.

 

[corsair23]

Could I make a request? could you measure the surface area of the two? I also removed a PO installed K&N but I did not think to measure it before sending it away.

due to having more and larger pleats I have a guestimate that the OEM filter has maybe twice the area of the K&N

so if you could, pleat height x pleat width X number of pleats for both.

if you just want to measure the K&N I do have a spare OEM around but probably best for the same person to do measurements on both

RT,

I'll get those measurements to you in the next day or two

 

[corsair23]

That new OEM filter looks great, I gotta get me one. My 80 came with some Korean generic paper filter.

Most definitely...And the nice thing is they are "washable"

Spray them out with air, dunk 'em in water, and dry. Toyota is even so nice they put the directions right on the filter

Probably a tad more than a generic filter but since you can clean and reuse them they should last much longer than a generic and ultimately cost less.

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

How much was the OEM filter from CDan?

Doing a mild PM work tomorrow and I also wanna lose the K&N (installed by PO)





Rick

 

[corsair23]

How much was the OEM filter from CDan?

WAS in March '07 under $23 (list was slightly over $30). IIRC, orders over $100 ship free so put a list together. I believe he still has some of the special JDM oil filters in stock and then whatever else you might need. If you don't know, just ask CDan 'cuz he probably already has a list made up with your name on it

Just order my axle rebuild parts and new fan clutch on Monday and it arrived UPS today! He sounds REAL busy though so I think his dogs are eating well

 

[corsair23]

Could I make a request? could you measure the surface area of the two?

so if you could, pleat height x pleat width X number of pleats for both.

RavenTai,

Here are the requested measurements (plus some), and some additional pics. I'll let you make the analysis based on the data

K&N Air Filter

• Diameter (OD): 6 3/4"
• ID: 4 3/16"
• Height: 5 3/4"
• Width/Depth of element "ring": 1 5/16"
• Pleats:
  • 1/8" wide
  • Avg 1/2" apart
  • 1 1/2" deep
  • 5 1/4" high
  • 57 total (58 if you count the double one at the seam as seen in the very first pic in post #1)

OEM Air Filter (17801-61030)

• Diameter (OD): 8 1/2"
• ID: 4 1/4"
• Height: 5 11/16"
• Width/Depth of element "ring": 2 1/8"
• Pleats:
  • 1/16" wide
  • Avg 1/16"-1/8" apart
  • 2" deep
  • 5 3/8" high
  • 135 total

Let me know if you need anything else. I should have the filter for another week or so.

Pics of K&N air filter...

 

[corsair23]

Pics of the OEM air filter...

 

[Kalawang]

I dumped my K&N for pretty much the same reason.

I think it's a bad idea to " spray them out with air ". Tiny pebbles might be driven through the filter element and make a hole. I dunk the OEM filter in a bucket of water pulling it in and out until the water turns black, change the water and repeat as often as necessary. I put it aside in a box out of the way after the wash and let dry for at least a week but more often a month, in the meantime using another filter. I've been told the filter can stand 10 washings, but I try to treat it gently as the elements are paper.


Kalawang

 

[SOCALFJ]

My buddy works for a magazine and just did some high dollar lab testing on after market vs. oem air filters. I can't go into detail about it cause the article hasn't been released yet..... but he mentioned for me to get rid of my K&N and put a OEM filter back in. He said they didn't fair so well.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
[*]Pleats:

• 1/8" wide
• Avg 1/2" apart
• 1 1/2" deep
• 5 1/4" high
• 57 total (58 if you count the double one at the seam as seen in the very first pic in post #1)

...

We are looking for usable, breathable area? At the top and bottom of the K&N it looks like the plastic soaked into the gauze, sealing that area, so the usable hight is what 4 3/4"?

The total pleat count, is that individual panels or a count of the peaks?

 

[Tools R Us]

... I've been told the filter can stand 10 washings, but I try to treat it gently as the elements are paper.


Kalawang

It's my understanding that the washable ones are made from a waterproof synthetic fiber, not traditional wood pulp paper.

 

[94landcruiser]

Has anyone cleaned the OEM? I have one that I put in when I was going to reoil the K&N.

I saw no change in performance so I left the OEM in.

Anyone want a low mile K&N?

 

[corsair23]

We are looking for usable, breathable area? At the top and bottom of the K&N it looks like the plastic soaked into the gauze, sealing that area, so the usable hight is what 4 3/4"?

The total pleat count, is that individual panels or a count of the peaks?

I looked at the filter carefully and the black you see encroaching into the pleat areas is mostly just the coloring on the mesh. There is some plastic riding up on the pleats but it isn't consistent and you can't really see it in the pictures.

For the measurement I accounted for what I felt was unusable pleat area in the 5 1/4" high measurement. Some areas it might be 5 3/16" or even 5 1/8" or going the other way say 5 5/16". Overall 5 1/4" should be a good "average" and I imagine will vary from filter to filter.

As for the total pleat count. That is the total number of "peaks", which I assumed were considered the pleats. If that is an incorrect let me know and I'll count again and correct the numbers.

 

[hoch]

I don't like K&N's, either. They have not done well in any of the testings published. I'd much rather have the OEM filter in and change it out every 15-30k miles (or wash). The amount of dirt that gets through the K&N is ridiculous.

 

[RavenTai]

Corsair thank you ,

I think your pleat count is by peaks if so we can double that.

K&N

1.5" wide x 5.25" tall = 7.875 sq in per pleat x 114 pleats =

897.75 square inches of filter

OEM

2" wide x 5.375" tall = 10.75 sq in per pleat x 270 pleats =

2,902.5 square inches of filter


a ratio of just over 3:1 not even counting the reduction of the K&N area by rubberized area Tools mentions.


what makes this ratio interesting is it implications on performance.

K&N claims "High Air Flow with Excellent Filtration"

But independent testing has shown the first claim possibly true with a new clean filter, but that testing has also shown the second claim to be false, K&N's pass more dirt than paper filters. That test was done with the filters for a Chevy truck witch has a panel type filter, because of this the K&N and Paper would have had similar surface area

In our 80 series application the K&N has much less surface area than OEM Paper, to just break even in performance it would have to have half the surface area of the OEM, but it only has a third, This leads me to think that the K&N in this application would actually hurt performance when brand new, wile letting more dirt through and it costs more to buy and maintain. after the two filters take on some dirt the K&N's restriction would be even more.

That leaves absolutely no reason to ever use one in an FZJ-80.

 

[corsair23]

Great info RavenTai. And yes my way of counting the pleats was by the number of peaks. Guess I was comparing the terminology with a pleat in a pair of pants.

I always wondered about K&N's claim that their filters actually "filter" better as they get dirty and therefore really shouldn't be cleaned as often as one would replace a regular filter. To me they are saying the filtration starts off crappy but gets better as the filter gets packed with crud. But if a filter is packed with crud then one can only assume that the flow rate gets reduced over time.

Definitely not one of those "You get what you pay for" scenarios

94Landcruiser...just to confirm was the K&N filter you had the same size as what I had? I'm curious if the filter I had was the correct one or just one the PO found that fit...Not that it would change my view, just curious.

 

[Tools R Us]

I looked at the filter carefully and the black you see encroaching into the pleat areas is mostly just the coloring on the mesh. There is some plastic riding up on the pleats but it isn't consistent and you can't really see it in the pictures.

For the measurement I accounted for what I felt was unusable pleat area in the 5 1/4" high measurement. Some areas it might be 5 3/16" or even 5 1/8" or going the other way say 5 5/16". Overall 5 1/4" should be a good "average" and I imagine will vary from filter to filter.

As for the total pleat count. That is the total number of "peaks", which I assumed were considered the pleats. If that is an incorrect let me know and I'll count again and correct the numbers.

I wasn't bagging on your work, just wanted to make sure it was properly understood.

3X the filter area isn't even close, I see zero benefit to running one. Nice work!

 

[corsair23]

I wasn't bagging on your work, just wanted to make sure it was properly understood.

3X the filter area isn't even close, I see zero benefit to running one. Nice work!

That's the way I took it . No worries as I wanted to make sure I provided the correct info so I'm glad you brought the question up.