HELP needed: Late model FJ40 power steering conversion issues (2)

[Stumpalama]

So I have searched every possible combination of key words (including a forms of conversions saginaw, astro, scout, FJ60) as well as read every FAQ article I can think of to find an answer to my quandry with no solid answer.

I am in the process of converting my 1981 FJ40 from OEM to FJ60 power steering using a Flaming River DD slip shaft (approx. 3" of travel). My issues are with the stock steering column, specifically how to deal with the late model's two piece column. The rag joint section slips into a cross inside the column inside the firewall and protrudes to connect with the rag joint. It appears that the location of the stock steering box prevents the slip shaft from falling too far out of the cross.

Issue 1: When you remove the stock steering box, the shaft is able to move in and out 2-3". I'm not confident the fit of the bearing alone will prevent it from sliding down. I've thought of slipping a rubber grommet onto the shaft to limit the downward travel since it will butt up against the bearing installed in the column to support the shaft, or tack welding the bearing to the shaft, or welding a washer onto the shaft and putting a teflon washer between it and the bearing to provide a smooth mating surface.
*How have others secured the shaft to prevent this downward movement and keep the shaft up in the cross?

Issue 2: I was told my stock shaft may be too big . I don't have it in front of me to mike out to compare to the 3/4" bearing's inner diameter. Does the Kilian F-350-89 bearing fit this shaft?
*I understand I may have to sand it a bit, but does it require more work, like having it turned down in a lathe?

Thanks for the assist!

 

[AdamKFarmer]

Just curious Stump, why are you going from OEM to Saginaw? Need more power for wheelin?

 

[Stumpalama]

Yes Sir. I've been wheeling on 35's with the stock PS for several years now and am constantly worried about bending the drag link rod when the tires are pinned, not tomention all the linkages to potentially fail. I am also moving up to 37's so this will be even more of a concern.

 

[ACC Toyota]

You will have to disassemble the column and install a lower column support bearing. You can get the bearing from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters.

 

[Blue77FJ40]

Stump, I on my '77, I used a similar adjustable column, and used this type bearing at the base of the stock column. This is just a pic, don't believe it's the one I used. This type bearing has set screws to hold the shaft and should mount in the stock position, just use longer bolts (M8 I think). You'll probably have to slot out the mounting holes a bit as shown in the bearing MAF sells. Best to get one that has the zerk fitting.

I used a coarse 2" roloc in my angle die grinder to remove enough material on the shaft to allow the bearing to fit. Careful grinding for the DD fit, then easy grinding on the shaft for the bearing fit is called for.

How about some pics to better answer your question.

 

[Stumpalama]

You will have to disassemble the column and install a lower column support bearing. You can get the bearing from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters.

I have the lower shaft out on the work bench and cut the rag joint off. I was measuring for the flaming river shaft when I realized the column shaft will want to slide down. I have the bearing, but am looking for ideas to keep the shaft from sliding down since there is no existing method to keep it up in the column.

Thanks Blue. I am going with the bearing Kurt sells since it is way simple and a press fit into the column. It's heartening to hear there doesn't seem to be any real machining involved. How did you keep the shaft from sliding down? Or does the bearing fit take care of this?

 

[71-CRUISER]

The steering wheel will hold the shaft up. You can also put a tac weld on the shaft to do the same thing.

 

[Blue77FJ40]

I have the lower shaft out on the work bench and cut the rag joint off. I was measuring for the flaming river shaft when I realized the column shaft will want to slide down. I have the bearing, but am looking for ideas to keep the shaft from sliding down since there is no existing method to keep it up in the column.

Thanks Blue. I am going with the bearing Kurt sells since it is way simple and a press fit into the column. It's heartening to hear there doesn't seem to be any real machining involved. How did you keep the shaft from sliding down? Or does the bearing fit take care of this?

Stump, you'll notice that there are set screws on the flange bearing I showed. That should hold the shaft in place. I also have the little bearing that goes in the bottom of the steering housing, but it must have had too much play and allowed the steering wheel to rattle too much. That's why I went to the flange bearing.

 

[Stumpalama]

The steering wheel will hold the shaft up. You can also put a tac weld on the shaft to do the same thing.

On the late model FJ40's the lower shaft (with the rag joint connection) slips inside a bell in the upper shaft and rides independent of it, meaning there is no mechanical means to keep the lower shaft from falling down and hitting the dust seal without the stock box there to keep in up.

 

[Blue77FJ40]

On the late model FJ40's the lower shaft (with the rag joint connection) slips inside a bell in the upper shaft and rides independent of it, meaning there is no mechanical means to keep the lower shaft from falling down and hitting the dust seal without the stock box there to keep in up.

Stump, without pics to see the shaft, can you cut off the bell that is on the upper shaft, and if so, would it extend as far as the pic I show with the shaft going through the bearing? If so, then cut it and grind the DD into the end.

 

[John Smith]

On the late model FJ40's the lower shaft (with the rag joint connection) slips inside a bell in the upper shaft and rides independent of it, meaning there is no mechanical means to keep the lower shaft from falling down and hitting the dust seal without the stock box there to keep in up.

How about cross drilling through the upper bell and the lower shaft and pinning them with a nut and bolt? You could also put a couple weld tacks on the lower shaft just behind where the column bearing will install. Please post a picture of this setup you have.

 

[Stumpalama]

I'll get some pics up[ in the next day or 2. Busy times.

 

[Stumpalama]

EDIT: measurements revised Pics below

Pic of column at firewall:



pic of lower shaft 22mm" (.87") diameter:



pic of bell cage of shaft approx 50.5mm (2.00") diameter:

The inner ring is the shaft the outer ring is the column housing.

 

[Stumpalama]

EDIT!!!!! Ok, so here are the measurements: column shaft bell opening (where bearing would press in): 48mm 1.89"
Shaft diameter: 22mm approx 7/8"

So, yeah, looks like I'm breaking some new ground here with this one. F-me!

 

[71-CRUISER]

Wow. I guess I have never taken one apart that was that new. I have an older one piece column that you can have.

 

[Stumpalama]

Thanks, I might have to take you up on that...

 

[Stumpalama]

New miked measurements: Shaft: 22mm. Bell ID: 48mm with the c-clip lip.

 

[Stumpalama]

All right, the revised bore and outer diameters are much more manageable and may have also solved my other issue of the shaft sliding down.

[STRIKE]I am ordering a bearing with a 52mm outer diameter and a 20mm inner diameter. I will take the bearing and the shaft to a local machine shop and have them turn the shaft down (to a specified point) to press fit the bearing and machine in the 3/4" DD fitting at the end.

The resulting lip on the shaft at the transition from 20 to 22 mm will prevent the shaft from sliding out of the bell.[/STRIKE]

The above is bad gouge. The right bearing is a 50mm OD 22mm ID (WJB 62/22-2RS on amazon.com). You might also be able to use a 48mm OD 20mm ID bearing and have the stub shaft machined to creat a lip to stop the shaft from falling down and screwing casuing the u-joint to bind. This would also allow you to reuse the original c-clip to retain the bearng, though I didn't try that.

I'll post up results and any part numbers if this is successful.

In the mean time, anyone who has worked this issue before.

 

[Stumpalama]

How about cross drilling through the upper bell and the lower shaft and pinning them with a nut and bolt? You could also put a couple weld tacks on the lower shaft just behind where the column bearing will install. Please post a picture of this setup you have.

Unfortunately, the shaft bell is covered by the column housing with no room to install a bolt or pin.

 

[Stumpalama]

So, here's what I've learned while solving this late model 40 steering column issue: No, you don't need a bearing since the bell that holds the stub shaft turns, DUH! But an $12 double sealed 50mm OD and 22mm ID bearing from Amazon.com ensures the shaft is centered and is a simpler solution than trying to fab something that will fit in the bell and be perfectly centered you just need to grind off the rim of the bell to take off the c-clip lip.
I also learned, too late, that a poly spring eye bushing's shoulder is about a perfect fit and would allow you to use the c-clip to hold it in place. You would just need to bore out the center to 22mm and maybe use a hose clamp on the body to compress it on the shaft and keep it from sliding down, or better yet, a hose clamp on the inside to allow it to move in, but not out. A cheap, easy solution that doesn't require welding or extensive fab work.

Another thing to consider is if the truck is still running the EGR with headers. I am running the EGR and headers which pushes the EGR closer to the frame and is in danger of hitting and melting the bellows on the dd slip shaft. Careful cutting of the 1" DD upper (no more than 8", other wise you will also cut the 3/4 DD inner shaft if compressed or it will extend into the u-joint if the upper is cut when the shaft is extended then compressed) will allow for the bellows to set closer to the firewall and not hit the EGR. EGR in the stock location is no issue as it is right up on the block.

Anyway, I got the pitman arm and just need to take the shaft to the machine shop to have them take part of the shaft down to 3/4" DD. I'm giving it to a pro 'cause there is a high probability that I would F it up and I can focus on the rest of the swap.