Another 100 Tranny Gone? 2002 96K HELP!

[Cypher]

*** UPDATE: 01/18/2011 ***
The transmission failure was due to previous overheating which lead to the destruction of the planetary gears. The failure is strictly related to the abuse and poor maintenance of a previous owner. There is tons of great info in this thread related to 100 transmissions and drivetrain troubleshooting, if that is what you are looking for. However, details of the failure can be found in post #93 - CLICK HERE.
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Last night over 200 miles from home, the tranny died, or so it seems...

I had the cruise control set @ 75mph driving along a very flat portion of road and everything was great. Then I felt a small transmission slip, then another, then about 1 min later, the truck just felt like it was kicked into neutral and the cruise control bounced the engine off the rev limiter. There was no noise, no bump, no grind, nothing. I immediately turned off cruise control and proceeded to the emergency lane where I was able to coast for a bit.

Once I came to a complete stop I tried all the gears and nothing. I ensured that the t-case was not in neutral and cycled it through High, Neutral, and Low an number of times without issue. I got out of the truck and visually checked the tranny and t-case. No leaking fluid and no sign of any damage otherwise. I even touched both the transmission and t-case to check for excessive heat, and they were both as warm as you would expect and not alarmingly hot. I then tried locking the t-case in combination with different gears and High/Low range, still nothing. I had the rev the engine a few times and cycle through the gears to see if I could hear anything, and at first there seemed to be a bit of a knock coming from around the tranny and bell housing, but that stopped shortly afterwards. I also checked the tranny fluid and the level was just the same as it was when I checked it before the road trip, it looked good, and didn't smell burnt. AT/P light is on which is expected since Park will not hold the truck. It also rolls smooth right now while in neutral, or any other gear for that matter. I had the cruiser towed just to get it off the hwy and now need to also figure out how the hell to get it 200 miles back to Phoenix.

WTF?!?! Any ideas?!?!?! Please post up if you have an opinion...

Year: 2002
Miles: 96K
Mods: 285/75r16 BFG AT, installed 3 weeks ago, otherwise stock.
Towing? Not I, the previous owner didn't either, the owner before that, who knows... That would have been 40K miles ago.

Questions:

1. WTF!!!???
2. Good tranny place in Phx? Camelback Toyota?
3. Could it be something electronic? Seems very strange the way it failed with no previous signs or warning, then no sounds upon failure.
4. Ideas/suggestions on a cheap way to get it towed 200 miles back to Phx?
5. How much damage to my wallet should I expect? 1K, 2K, 3K?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

Stuck in NM.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Sorry to hear...
Murf from Camelback Toyota is out of town for the holiday but if you are going to use a dealer I would use Camelback.
Where in NM are you stuck?

 

[Cypher]

Sorry to hear...
Murf from Camelback Toyota is out of town for the holiday but if you are going to use a dealer I would use Camelback.
Where in NM are you stuck?

Hey Phil...

I was just working with Murf for my brakes just a few weeks ago, I plan on giving him a call for sure. Do you by chance know when he is gonna be back in town?

I am stuck in Truth or Consequences NM, with family. However, the Cruiser is half way between Phx and NM. I'd rather not disclose the exact location publicly, since I am not keen on the "hey come steal my the s*** off my cruiser while it is stranded in a not so great location while I am not around!" message.

Thanks!

 

[Tools R Us]

Last night over 200 miles from home, the tranny died, or so it seems...

I had the cruise control set @ 75mph driving along a very flat portion of road and everything was great. Then I felt a small transmission slip, then another, then about 1 min later, the truck just felt like it was kicked into neutral and the cruise control bounced the engine off the rev limiter. There was no noise, no bump, no grind, nothing. I immediately turned off cruise control and proceeded to the emergency lane where I was able to coast for a bit.

Once I came to a complete stop I tried all the gears and nothing. I ensured that the t-case was not in neutral and cycled it through High, Neutral, and Low an number of times without issue. I got out of the truck and visually checked the tranny and t-case. No leaking fluid and no sign of any damage otherwise. I even touched both the transmission and t-case to check for excessive heat, and they were both as warm as you would expect and not alarmingly hot. I then tried locking the t-case in combination with different gears and High/Low range, still nothing. I had the rev the engine a few times and cycle through the gears to see if I could hear anything, and at first there seemed to be a bit of a knock coming from around the tranny and bell housing, but that stopped shortly afterwards. I also checked the tranny fluid and the level was just the same as it was when I checked it before the road trip, it looked good, and didn't smell burnt. AT/P light is on which is expected since Park will not hold the truck. It also rolls smooth right now while in neutral, or any other gear for that matter. I had the cruiser towed just to get it off the hwy and now need to also figure out how the hell to get it 200 miles back to Phoenix.

WTF?!?! Any ideas?!?!?! Please post up if you have an opinion...

Year: 2002
Miles: 96K
Mods: 285/75r16 BFG AT, installed 3 weeks ago, otherwise stock.
Towing? Not I, the previous owner didn't either, the owner before that, who knows... That would have been 40K miles ago.

Questions:

1. WTF!!!???
2. Good tranny place in Phx? Camelback Toyota?
3. Could it be something electronic? Seems very strange the way it failed with no previous signs or warning, then no sounds upon failure.
4. Ideas/suggestions on a cheap way to get it towed 200 miles back to Phx?
5. How much damage to my wallet should I expect? 1K, 2K, 3K?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

Stuck in NM.

First test is to lock the center diff, if the rig drives, something is broken in the drive train. If it moves with it locked, unlock it have a helper hold the brake and attempt to drive. Look under the rig and see what is moving/turning. My guess would be a front axle is turning, a drive plate stripped, but could be a diff, CV joint, etc. If it is just a drive plate, you can lock the center and likely drive it home without issue.

 

[Cypher]

First test is to lock the center diff, if the rig drives, something is broken in the drive train. If it moves with it locked, unlock it have a helper hold the brake and attempt to drive. Look under the rig and see what is moving/turning. My guess would be a front axle is turning, a drive plate stripped, but could be a diff, CV joint, etc. If it is just a drive plate, you can lock the center and likely drive it home without issue.

Hey Kevin, thanks for posting up!

Yea, I tried the center diff lock trick with no luck. The truck rolls smooth in any gear while being pushed. Front and rear drive shafts turn without issue while rolling. With the truck in gear nothing moves or turns under the truck.

 

[Tools R Us]

Does park hold it in place?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Hey Phil...

I was just working with Murf for my brakes just a few weeks ago, I plan on giving him a call for sure. Do you by chance know when he is gonna be back in town?

I am stuck in Truth or Consequences NM, with family. However, the Cruiser is half way between Phx and NM. I'd rather not disclose the exact location publicly, since I am not keen on the "hey come steal my the s*** off my cruiser while it is stranded in a not so great location while I am not around!" message.

Thanks!

I just check my email and all Murf said "Ill be back next week"

 

[Cypher]

Does park hold it in place?

Nope, doesn't hold in park. In fact it rolls smooth in any gear including park. It honestly feels like there is a complete disconnection between the engine and tranny. Could something in the bell housing given way?

I am completely puzzled here.

I just check my email and all Murf said "Ill be back next week"

Awesome, thanks! I will leave him a voice mail and give him a heads up in the meantime.

 

[Tools R Us]

Nope, doesn't hold in park. In fact it rolls smooth in any gear including park. It honestly feels like there is a complete disconnection between the engine and tranny. Could something in the bell housing given way?
...

The park pawl is on the trans output, so the problem is downstream of that, transfer, diff, CV, drive plate, etc. You just had the front apart, are you sure the outer CV/drive plate clip was properly installed/seated? If it were to pop off, break, the CV can move back/inwards, disconnecting drive at that wheel.

 

[OregonLC]

The park pawl is on the trans output, so the problem is downstream of that, transfer, diff, CV, drive plate, etc. You just had the front apart, are you sure the outer CV/drive plate clip was properly installed/seated? If it were to pop off, break, the CV can move back/inwards, disconnecting drive at that wheel.

But didn't he say he has the AT/P light on? In which case the pawl isn't engaged, right?

 

[Cypher]

The park pawl is on the trans output, so the problem is downstream of that, transfer, diff, CV, drive plate, etc. You just had the front apart, are you sure the outer CV/drive plate clip was properly installed/seated? If it were to pop off, break, the CV can move back/inwards, disconnecting drive at that wheel.

Very true. However, if I had locked the center diff, I should have still been able to drive move the truck even if all the torque was being lost to a front CV spinning. Correct?

Thinking back on last night, when I put the truck in park after stopping, I did hear a funny "ssshhhhhissshhhhh" and then the truck would not hold in park. That was the same time that the AT/P light come on as well.

 

[Tools R Us]

Very true. However, if I had locked the center diff, I should have still been able to drive move the truck even if all the torque was being lost to a front CV spinning. Correct?

Correct, if the center locked?

Thinking back on last night, when I put the truck in park after stopping, I did hear a funny "ssshhhhhissshhhhh" and then the truck would not hold in park. That was the same time that the AT/P light come on as well.

Not for sure about the '100, but on the others I work on, the AT/P light only comes on when the transfer is in neutral. When the transfer is in neutral there is no drive, the light is to indicate that the drive train is disconnected from the park pawl, the rig will roll.

 

[Cypher]

Just going through stuff in my mind here...

If the torque converter failed, that would explain the "disconnect" feeling between the engine and transmission. That may also explain the knock that was coming from the bell housing. Also, leading up to this, I did have a whine sound that was coming from bell housing recently upon start-up in the mornings. This whine would eventually go away completely after driving about 5-7 miles when the truck warmed up. The whine was then gone for the rest of the day until the next morning. Due to these symptoms, I didn't think much about it really and figured it had a little to do with the cool weather. That still does not explain the AT/P light and not holding in Park, but maybe the torque converter failed and destroyed the tranny. Any thoughts on this?

Is the t-case gear or chain driven from the transmission? Maybe a failure there? When swapping my t-case fluid recently the magnetic drain plug had only the expected small amount of tiny metal "particles" not shavings.

 

[TheFuzz]

Hey Cypher. Sorry to hear about the LC...and with the family in tow, too - what rotten luck.

Anyway, the whining in the t-case on cold mornings seems to be a symptom of cold weather. Mine just recently started making a gear whine type noise once the temps started dropping a little. Similar deal as you, once the truck (read: fluid) gets warmed up after about a mile of driving, the whine stops and I don't hear it again until the truck has been sitting long enough for the fluid to completely cool again. Usually overnight. Synthetic fluids are supposed to reduce the gear whine to some degree. That being said, I'd say 5-7 miles for the noise to go away is a little long, at least in my experience. The noise on mine is usually gone within 30 to one minute of driving.

Mine is an 00 with 135XXX miles. I'll be following this closely. Best of luck.

​

 

[Cypher]

Hey Cypher. Sorry to hear about the LC...and with the family in tow, too - what rotten luck.

Anyway, the whining in the t-case on cold mornings seems to be a symptom of cold weather. Mine just recently started making a gear whine type noise once the temps started dropping a little. Similar deal as you, once the truck (read: fluid) gets warmed up after about a mile of driving, the whine stops and I don't hear it again until the truck has been sitting long enough for the fluid to completely cool again. Usually overnight. Synthetic fluids are supposed to reduce the gear whine to some degree. That being said, I'd say 5-7 miles for the noise to go away is a little long, at least in my experience. The noise on mine is usually gone within 30 to one minute of driving.

Mine is an 00 with 135XXX miles. I'll be following this closely. Best of luck.

​

Thanks Fuzz...

I am very familiar with the t-case whine, in fact I remedied that issue with synthetic fluid as you had mentioned. The whine went away and all was good. The whine from the bell housing I confirmed by lying under the truck when the started the Cruiser (not recommended for those who do not COMPLETELY trust your better half haha). The whine was definitely coming from the bell housing.

Damn, I am going nuts here with all this running through my head and no Cruiser around to troubleshoot!

 

[Skidoo]

With the AT/P light on, points to T-case, I would check the linkage to the T-case, might be broken, sounds like T-case is in N.
For something to fail inside T-case thinking it would make a lot of noise.
It would be hard for T/C failure to take out P pawl, it actually has linkage to to engage it, whereas so many of other functions are electronic.

 

[Cypher]

With the AT/P light on, points to T-case, I would check the linkage to the T-case, might be broken, sounds like T-case is in N.
For something to fail inside T-case thinking it would make a lot of noise.
It would be hard for T/C failure to take out P pawl, it actually has linkage to to engage it, whereas so many of other functions are electronic.

That is what what confuses the hell out of me. I didn't make a single noise when it failed and it rolls smooth with no noise from the drivetrain what so ever. The only two noises I can speak of is a knocking that was coming from the bell housing when pulled over on the side of the free way, which only lasted about 1.5 mins, and the whine that was also coming from the bell housing in the weeks before the failure. All these dots don't connect up to well at this point, especially with the AT park not holding the truck issue.

As mentioned before I swapped my t-case fluid about 3 weeks ago and the drain plug didn't have any alarming amount of debris. I have also ensured that no fluid has leaked out of the t-case and there was zero sign of any leaks after the failure. Just thinking/typing out loud now...

 

[PJCB]

I'm pretty sure it must be something downstream of the auto box and upstream of the props.... I.e. the transfer. I would also agree that the linkage between the H/L gear shift and transfer has come loose and the transfer is in neutral. When you shifted the H/L gear knob, did it feel like normal where you can "feel" it mesh and unmesh or was it looser than normal?

 

[Cypher]

I'm pretty sure it must be something downstream of the auto box and upstream of the props.... I.e. the transfer. I would also agree that the linkage between the H/L gear shift and transfer has come loose and the transfer is in neutral. When you shifted the H/L gear knob, did it feel like normal where you can "feel" it mesh and unmesh or was it looser than normal?

Thanks for the post..

The t-case shift lever felt normal and I also got the expected lights when shifting from H->N->L and back. If it is the t-case I am sure it is the drive between the transmission and the t-case. As long as that didn't screw up the transmission when it went I might be in decent shape. Especially since I am pretty sure I can do most if not all the work on the t-case my self. It is the transmission, forget it! I will leave that one to the pros.

 

[wareagle]

I'm not sure about the 100 series, but is the xfr case mechanical and electrical solenoid driven? Jsut wondering if you're in a neutral position.