Why dont more Mudders RV?

[titanpat57]

Been there, done that...

Duallies, large campers (passed the popup phase)....I finally figured out what I loved most about camping, and it wasn't when I was towing a two car garage behind me.

The smaller trailer has opened up what I always enjoyed about camping, some roughing it, but the opportunity for creature comforts. I can literally go anywhere the truck will tow it....I can literally turn around anywhere, don't have plumbing to drag or catch, etc.

I can set as little or as much of it I want. The flexibility makes as fun as being a kid again. Now when I was married and had the wife and two daughters along ), it was obviously a different story...(no AC, no power, no campie!!)

Maybe...before too long...I'll realize I'm physically incapable of setting the large tent alone...or loading and unloading the woodstove or fridge loaded without help....and at that point I'll probably get myself a small self contained.


But for right now it's exactly what I really, really like, but I also realize it's not for everyone.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Sure we do!

 

[arcteryx]

sweet setup christo!

 

[ih88hi10]

You can always get one of these built... Love the ambulance one... Can probably achieve both concepts a good muddin adventure and a nice camping one as well. For a lot less than a EarthRomer. I would like to build one of these, like the Ambulance one, when my kids get bigger.

http://www.ujointoffroad.com/ujor4x4vanbuilds.html
http://six13metalworks.com/projects/hd-rv/

One time when I stayed in a van in a campground, I had a park ranger knock on the door in around 1am and say to me "No sleeping in cars allowed!"
The ambulance one doesn't do anything for me. The other ones would if they had some kind of pop-up or way to get some cool fresh air in there because vans in the summer get hot and they don't cool down quickly either. If you don't run the air, it's hot and stuffy and that's why you really need an RTT if you don't have a/c running all night. Then again they are big. I can see them getting hit by branches and scratched up in no time if you have to turn around in one of those it isn't going to be easy.

 

[ih88hi10]

The smaller trailer has opened up what I always enjoyed about camping, some roughing it, but the opportunity for creature comforts. I can literally go anywhere the truck will tow it....I can literally turn around anywhere, don't have plumbing to drag or catch, etc.

I can set as little or as much of it I want. The flexibility makes as fun as being a kid again. Now when I was married and had the wife and two daughters along ), it was obviously a different story...(no AC, no power, no campie!!)

Some other nice things about a small trailer, at least the kind that a lot of folks on here have is you can keep in your garage, you can go on a lot of the roads I do and if you have to turn around, you can unhook it and turn around and hook it back up again and your daily driver doesn't have to be a van. They're also cheaper to register and insure.

 

[FloridaFJ80]

I would agree a trailer would be the best bet for off roading. And gives you a lot of versatility. The best would be 2 RTT one on the trailer and the other on the rig. and adding AC to these RTT isnt too hard. There are tents that actually add this feature to the RTT. I had one of these in Colombia and AC feature is perfect when your in the middle of nowhere and the high humidity and stickyness dont let you sleep so well.

http://www.carpasanaconda.com/especificaciones_c.html

 

[ih88hi10]

Does anyone here remember these U-haul RV "egg style" trailers?
http://youtu.be/nChivhATPG4

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/groups/6-u-haul+trailers.html


When I was a kid, the local uhaul center had an entire fleet of those small trailers lined up and I thought they were really cool. One day I talked my dad into calling them up about renting one for a family vacation and they were just phasing them out. Too late.

I could see something this size in my future and it could be converted for trail duty relatively easily and you can park it somewhere and take your primary vehicle out on the trails for the day and come back to it. Not a bad compromise.

 

[ih88hi10]

I would agree a trailer would be the best bet for off roading. And gives you a lot of versatility. The best would be 2 RTT one on the trailer and the other on the rig. and adding AC to these RTT isnt too hard. There are tents that actually add this feature to the RTT. I had one of these in Colombia and AC feature is perfect when your in the middle of nowhere and the high humidity and stickyness dont let you sleep so well.

http://www.carpasanaconda.com/especificaciones_c.html

They make some pretty small portable air conditioners that you don't need any special cuts in the tent.. you can just stick the exhaust tube outside one of the windows and zip up around it. You can drain the condensation with a garden hose. They're about $250 at Lowes/Home Cheapot.
Or course then you've got to feed it electricity. I thought about getting one but have been managing with a battery powered fan.

 

[80t0ylc]

I would agree a trailer would be the best bet for off roading. And gives you a lot of versatility. The best would be 2 RTT one on the trailer and the other on the rig. and adding AC to these RTT isnt too hard. There are tents that actually add this feature to the RTT. I had one of these in Colombia and AC feature is perfect when your in the middle of nowhere and the high humidity and stickyness dont let you sleep so well.

http://www.carpasanaconda.com/especificaciones_c.html

Really?! No disrespect intended but, A/C doesn't work powered by 12v or batteries. You were "in the middle of nowhere" with A/C? You must have had a generator, which when running (gas or diesel engine) makes enough noise to defeat the feeling of getting away from it all, IMO.

I've had my RV setup for less than a year and have learned a lot, getting the 20+ yr rigs set up to actually use. And I have so much more to learn. I've appreciated the comments made by those who've actually RV'd or their parents had an RV. They definitely reqire a lot of time and maintenance and it only gets worse, the older they are. RVs are not for everyone and I remember when motorhomes first started hitting the road in numbers. I believe it was the early 70s. I hated 'em and swore I'd never own one. My friends and I called them "grossmobiles" . I used to dread getting behind one on a 2-lane road that you couldn't pass on.

Anyway, for me, mine will serve a purpose. I was dreading towing my mini with my 80 series. And the camper will definitely be more comfortable than the RTT. With this I can tow either the mini or the 80. Christo, do you just disco the drive shafts when you tow your 80?

 

[arcteryx]

Yea, the fiberglass rvs are in the lead for me to get, followed by anything Northwood manufacturers, they are very solid, true 4-season trailers. I go on long road trips sometimes. My goal is to show my kids as much of the US as possible, since I am fortunate to have been to all but 4 US states.

I like the driving ones, and my folks had 2 back when I was a kid, loved them and got me hooked. But I think the only way I would want to do it would be to get a diesel pusher and tow a cruiser, similar to christo's setup. But at this time, I dont want to take on another drivetrain to maintain/insure. My (current) rationale is that the smaller RV would allow to tow with my pig for those few times when I go out without the fam, although if its a Northwood that may not happen as they are too heavy

 

[rusty_tlc]

Really?! No disrespect intended but, A/C doesn't work powered by 12v or batteries. You were "in the middle of nowhere" with A/C? You must have had a generator, which when running (gas or diesel engine) makes enough noise to defeat the feeling of getting away from it all, IMO.
.....

Not entirely correct, there are many evaporative coolers that work on 12V
this is one type that works with tents or trailers
http://www.swampy.net/

These are just for trailers
http://www.turbokool.com/

Evaporative coolers are only effective in low humidity climates so forget that in the large parts of the US. Out west they work great. We cooled our homes in Nevada for many years with them and you can stay quite comfortable.

Modern generators are not near as loud as you might think, I've have actually forgotten my little Honda 1000 was running. I prefer to run on 12V and only use the gen for charging the batterie. It runs for a short time each day, just long enough to top off the battery. When we break camp each day the battery charges fine while towing.

 

[80t0ylc]

Not entirely correct, there are many evaporative coolers that work on 12V........

It is correct. Evaporative coolers are not air conditioners.

....Evaporative coolers are only effective in low humidity climates so forget that in the large parts of the US. Out west they work great. We cooled our homes in Nevada for many years with them and you can stay quite comfortable.......

AKA as "swamp coolers" but the term doesn't make sense because most "swamps" are humid. If you've ever had an evaporative cooler in a climate where the humidity varies, you realize that they are unreliable because they don't work when you need them the most. The only place I would even consider one again would be if I lived in a desert. By the way, there are plenty of places "out west" where the humidity is such that they are useless.

.......Modern generators are not near as loud as you might think, I've have actually forgotten my little Honda 1000 was running. I prefer to run on 12V and only use the gen for charging the batterie. It runs for a short time each day, just long enough to top off the battery. When we break camp each day the battery charges fine while towing.

Thanks Rusty, for the suggestion. I'm considering a generator and I'll check up on the Honda brand.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Swamp coolers cool the air, which is what we are discussing. My intent was to suggest a way that one could have relief from the heat with a 12V system.

I think the "swamp" term comes from the increase in humidity inside whatever structure you are cooling. IMHO this very welcome here, and in most of the rest of the South West. I much prefer the high humidity from a swamp cooler to the ultra dry air from refrigerated air conditioning. BTW in the strictest sense evap coolers are AC though most people only consider refrigerated cooling as AC.

 

[rusty_tlc]

We found our very first RV today, sold it in 1995 to the guy who still owns it.
I rebuilt most of the interior with hand tools



My wife and Mom recovered the cushions and we had a matteress made a t a local place to fit the fixed rear bed.

You can see why they call these "canned Ham" trailers.

 

[Bogo]

Really?! No disrespect intended but, A/C doesn't work powered by 12v or batteries. You were "in the middle of nowhere" with A/C? You must have had a generator, which when running (gas or diesel engine) makes enough noise to defeat the feeling of getting away from it all, IMO.

Ever look into compressor based DC powered air conditioners? Some of the better ones willl keep a tear drop trailer or a well insulated tiny travel trailer cool over night on 4 to 6 Group 31 deep cycle batteries. You'd have to recharge the battery bank during the day, but a 64" wide by 160" long area with 20% plus efficient solar panels covering it will do that recharge. BTW: DC air conditioners are being used in semi cabs for overnight sleeping without idling the engine. They will pay for themselves in a year or two based on reduced overnight idling fuel use and less wear on the engine. When they fit one of them into a cab, they also usually take out the engine mounted air conditioner compressor. The DC powered one is much more efficient and uses much less fuel to operate. That savings alone is often enough to justify their use. For recharging them on a semi cab they use a larger engine alternator, or a second one in place of the air conditioner compressor. It also works better to operate them at 24VDC rather than 12VDC due to efficiency. A big problem with them at this point is cost. The air conditioner unit should only cost $1,000 or less each, but they are still up in the $2,000 range.

Yeah, DC air conditioning isn't practicle yet for larger RVs, but I bet it will be some day. I've heard of much more efficient air conditioner refrigerants. I've also heard of much more efficient solar cell designs that could be easily mass produced.

 

[Bogo]

For me - when I go camping, my primary goal is to get away from people. RV to me almost always means being as close to my camping neighbor as I am to my real neighbor at home. Kinda defeats the point for me.

No wonder I don't like standard campgrounds. My closest neighbor is over a quarter mile away... Anyways, the last few trips, I've only done dispersed camping. Yes, it is possible to pull some big travel trailers into many of the places I like, and people do, but there is still the threat of getting stuck.

After the MicroRV fell through due to a bad frame, I briefly looked at doing it on a full sized pickup. Now I'm playing with some hard sided popup tiny travel trailer ideas after looking at teardrop trailers.

This is one of a few potential designs being worked on by me: Top down and ready for travel. Note, it is only 52" tall when sitting on 31"x10.5R15 tires, and has over 12" ground clearance. It isn't designed to be drug over rocks, but should traverse most forest service roads. The exterior width is the same as a 4Runner and reasonable streamlining is planned. So it should not kill gas mileage to much. The frame is built into the basement floor so the bottom is smooth. For reference she is 5' 8-1/2" tall, and the SUV is a 4Runner on 31x10.5R15 tires.
http://www.nerdvest.com/images/cross-linked/misc/sputt/folded-aluminum-frame-sketch-061.jpg

Top up and ready for use. It has 6' 4" tall interior that is 60" wide, and a little over 11' long. Big enough for a queen bed, shower, toilet, and kitchen inside. The length was chosen so the top and middle side panels can be made from 3' x 12' sheet aluminum. 32" Roll aluminum would be better due to less wasteage. The bottom side walls need a wider sheet, but it too is a standard size.
http://www.nerdvest.com/images/cross-linked/misc/sputt/folded-aluminum-frame-sketch-064.jpg


Modules on the wall for kitchen. Yes, the sink spigot is a shower wand that has a solid stream option as well as hard, and rain spray options. I don't have the controls drawn in yet. The plan is to use the valves from a wide set Grohe bathroom faucet I have. They use regular compression fittings and short pipes to connect the valves to the spigot. I'll just replace them with a T to the shower wand's hose. I have to have the spigot foldable so the module fits under the folded entry door. The modules will either be hung on horizontal slots made in the walls, of KV Heavy Duty Designer Shelf standards. For transport they will be stowed under the bed or in the main floor area.
http://www.nerdvest.com/images/cross-linked/misc/sputt/folded-aluminum-frame-sketch-079.jpg

Different interior shot with a bit earlier module set. Note the queen bed is folded into a couch against the back wall. Light green box by the toilet is the size of an Engel MT45 fridge/freezer.

Estimated weight is around 1,500 lbs dry, and under 2,500 lbs wet with full camping kit including generator and fuel for it. The heavy use of Structural Insulation Panels (SIP) is helping to keep the weight low. Throwing in things like the generator is increasing weight rapidly, but I want to keep the maximum loaded for anything weight under 3,000 lbs.

 

[ih88hi10]

Back when I had a truck camper with AC I never thought I could go camping without a/c.
Then I got a RTT and never been uncomfortable. I use a battery powered fan that does two things. It draws in cool air from outside and also fans evaporate the microscopic beads of sweat on your skin and cool you down. You never realize that's going on, you just don't think about it.

Before you go spending $1000 on a DC air conditioner and all the batteries you're going to need, try this. Install an exhaust fan in your camper/RV somewhere high up. Preferably in the ceiling but it doesn't have to be in the ceiling. It does have to be high up though. Then open a window or two and turn on the fan.

If you've ever had a whole house fan, you know what this does.
It draws in cool air from outside and expells hot air through the exhast fan. If you have a powerful enough exhaust fan, it will actually create a breeze inside.
Take it from me, I have a whole house fan and I've turned on my central A/C all of 5 or 6 times this entire summer, 74 degrees and 70+% humidity feels pretty darn nice when there's a breeze involved. It's like you're on a beach.
To sum it up, if you can manage to power just one exhaust fan, that's all you need. And without doing any research, I'm guessing a small 60 watt exhaust fan will do the trick for a camper. Maybe even less. You don't necessarily need to run it all night long. Just until the inside temperature cools down.

Of course if you're in Florida like Frank is and you're lucky if the low temperature at night makes it to 80 degrees, then that's probably going to be kinda uncomfortable any way you slice it.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Having grown up with parents that had rvs, my experience is that the larger they get, the less they get used. More size = more work to use = less use. To the point where they ended up giving up entirely on the idea and buying a sports car and staying in hotels.

For me - when I go camping, my primary goal is to get away from people. RV to me almost always means being as close to my camping neighbor as I am to my real neighbor at home. Kinda defeats the point for me.

When we had our Arctic Fox we used it a lot, 23' IIRC. The Arctic Fox was developed by one of the founders of Nash for elk hunting. The line features fully sealed undercarriage, high ground clearance, heated black and grey water tanks, screw and glue construction in all cabinets, high R value walls and windows. You could comfortably camp in 15 degree weather. As far as RV's in a similar price range go the fit and finish was exceptional. I think we sold that trailer in 2007.

Just because everybody takes their RV to a campground doesn't mean you have to. There are a lot of remote places a TT can get to. We dry camped in the Sierra and other places, basically any fire or wood cutting road we could find was a campground.

 

[In2cruisers]

Sure we do!

That is NOT camping......that is called taking a condo into the woods



.

 

[doug720]

We have progressed from bags on the ground, to yenys, to sleeping in trucks and vans, to class C MH, to slide in truck campers. Our current class A MH is now 10 years old, we have stayed in campgrounds with hook-ups 2 times! All the other trips are boondocking in the desert and mountains. We are self contained, have 7 solar panels, 4 house battery banks, a generator if needed, 120 gallons of water, and more. All of which allows us to stay at some pretty amazing places for a long time, comfortably!

I see nothing wrong with having comfort when out camping. My wife enjoys it, it's our hotel/comdo,with a nice bed, kitchen and full bath with shower. When it's cold, rains or snows, we have a great time. With the 60 in tow, we have the best of both comfort and off road exploration.

I sleep in my 60 many times each year when I go out alone. My daughter and I go fishing several times each year and camp out of the 60 with our dogs. Rarely, the wife will camp out with us. But when we go on our several 5 - 10 trips and our 2 - 3 week vacation each year, the motor home is great and works for us.

RV's may not be for everyone and every trip, but for the us...it works.

Doug