V8 Radiator vs. Stock Rad Feedback

[Ridge Runner]

Holy crap, that's a long sentence.

Problem with mine was that someone had soldered it in three places. There's a leak somewhere, not necessarily in the radiator, letting steam out slowly. I went ahead and bought a new radiator since I'm planning on driving out west and up to Alaska in the next year or two. I will say that I was impressed at the engine's aparent ability to run cool with the radiator a quart low.

 

[lehiguy]

Holy ****, that's a long sentence.

Problem with mine was that someone had soldered it in three places. There's a leak somewhere, not necessarily in the radiator, letting steam out slowly. I went ahead and bought a new radiator since I'm planning on driving out west and up to Alaska in the next year or two. I will say that I was impressed at the engine's aparent ability to run cool with the radiator a quart low.

The 2F has remarkable reserve with two gallons of oil and four gallons of coolant, you can spring leaks that would be catastrophic to other vehicles and not be affected.

 

[Toadhopper]

I have a lot of HP on tap when I want it, I like to fly up hills, I do occasionaly pull trailers, (last week I got on a scale at the landfill, my trailer was 6000 pounds). It never gets past the center of the gauge no matter what. This was a hot summer, 100+ for what seemed like an eternity, no issues. I have a fan clutch but no shroud, it doesn't seem to matter. I run a 195 degree thermostat because I don't like to be cold in the winter.

Thanks for the info!
Sounds like what I need.
I ordered one yesterday and hopefully itll be good to go!

 

[mmuthart]

I like reading over here because you guys have done more V8 swaps...

Anyway, another data point which I've finally realized after 10 years of trying to keep my 350 TBI cool in my '91 80 Series...

Fan clutch distance from radiator is critical to proper cooling. And possibly the air flow direclty to the little thermistatic coil on the front of the fan clutch is just as important.

This is all my theory at this point, because I've never read it ONCE ANYWHERE while searching the web for a solution to my cooling issues.

Coming back from camping about a month ago, I was having a typical 'too hot' scenario climbing a grade towing a 2000 lb trailer. 90+ outside. When the water temp got past 230, I pulled on to a scendary road where I could slow way down and better monitor (I have an aftermarket mechanical water temp gauge). I continued up this scendary road at snails pace and watched my temps slowly continue to rise. I let it go to 250 just out of frustration and complete confusion of how this could be happening after litterally 10 years of making changes to the cooling system (it's never once boiled over or left me stranded, just too hot in my opinion). And then it finally happened! At 250 degrees my fan clutch locked and I quickly realized that this is what has been missing during all previous overheat scenarios in the past! The 'whoosh' of the locked blades is unmistakable and my water temp dropped rapidly. I finally figured this thing out!

I've replaced my fan clutch several times over the 10 years so didn't think the clutch itself was bad, but why would it wait to lock-up till 250 degrees?

I spaced the fan clutch .25" closer to the radiator and retested. Over heating is no longer a problem, when that clutch locks, temps drop dramatically. I think now, however, that the fan clutch is locking too soon. My temps will rise to about 200 degrees and then drop to 180 degrees (my thermostat) and continue this cycle.

Right now, I'm leaning towards a powerful dual setup electric fan; been looking at Flex-a-lites offerings. I'm thinking the electric setup will give me way better control of when the fan comes on, how fast it spins (variable speed) and when it turns off. It seems with electric, I'll have far better control of my water temps.

I may try backing the fan cluth up a bit (use only a 1/8" spacer) and running the stock 195 degree stat before venturing down the electric fan route..

But, what was my point? These fan clutches are designed too work in stock setups that have a fixed distance from the radiator, if you change that, my evidence shows you are changing the intended behavior. Also, what about air flow through the radiator to the thermistatic coil? Could you also be affecting it's function with an aftermarket bumper, lights, winch, etc., not sure. Anyway, if your troubleshooting over heating on your V8 swap, make sure that fan clutch is locking up when it's supposed to!

 

[Elbert]

I like reading over here because you guys have done more V8 swaps...

Anyway, another data point which I've finally realized after 10 years of trying to keep my 350 TBI cool in my '91 80 Series...

Fan clutch distance from radiator is critical to proper cooling. And possibly the air flow direclty to the little thermistatic coil on the front of the fan clutch is just as important.

This is all my theory at this point, because I've never read it ONCE ANYWHERE while searching the web for a solution to my cooling issues.

Coming back from camping about a month ago, I was having a typical 'too hot' scenario climbing a grade towing a 2000 lb trailer. 90+ outside. When the water temp got past 230, I pulled on to a scendary road where I could slow way down and better monitor (I have an aftermarket mechanical water temp gauge). I continued up this scendary road at snails pace and watched my temps slowly continue to rise. I let it go to 250 just out of frustration and complete confusion of how this could be happening after litterally 10 years of making changes to the cooling system (it's never once boiled over or left me stranded, just too hot in my opinion). And then it finally happened! At 250 degrees my fan clutch locked and I quickly realized that this is what has been missing during all previous overheat scenarios in the past! The 'whoosh' of the locked blades is unmistakable and my water temp dropped rapidly. I finally figured this thing out!

I've replaced my fan clutch several times over the 10 years so didn't think the clutch itself was bad, but why would it wait to lock-up till 250 degrees?

I spaced the fan clutch .25" closer to the radiator and retested. Over heating is no longer a problem, when that clutch locks, temps drop dramatically. I think now, however, that the fan clutch is locking too soon. My temps will rise to about 200 degrees and then drop to 180 degrees (my thermostat) and continue this cycle.

Right now, I'm leaning towards a powerful dual setup electric fan; been looking at Flex-a-lites offerings. I'm thinking the electric setup will give me way better control of when the fan comes on, how fast it spins (variable speed) and when it turns off. It seems with electric, I'll have far better control of my water temps.

I may try backing the fan cluth up a bit (use only a 1/8" spacer) and running the stock 195 degree stat before venturing down the electric fan route..

But, what was my point? These fan clutches are designed too work in stock setups that have a fixed distance from the radiator, if you change that, my evidence shows you are changing the intended behavior. Also, what about air flow through the radiator to the thermistatic coil? Could you also be affecting it's function with an aftermarket bumper, lights, winch, etc., not sure. Anyway, if your troubleshooting over heating on your V8 swap, make sure that fan clutch is locking up when it's supposed to!

I agree in that I believe the fan clutch is sensitive to the air flow across the radiator...but I think on many of these swap the fan clutch is actually closer to the radiator core than it ever was (say in a pickup truck or SUV, likely donor vehicle). I have a 1999 5.7 Vortec and many times I have thought that the fan clutch on my truck seems to have a mind of its own, and its brand new GM part. At times I think it engages quite often when ambient temps are not that hot, and then at times when ambient temps are hot is seems like the fan clutch does not engage when it should and the temps get north of 215-220. I also wonder if the question has something to do with the fan shroud design and the fan blades distance into the fan shroud...such that the fan's ability to pull air is lmited.

My observation one day when we were screwing around with the truck I drove it around town with no fan shroud....I could hear the fan clutch distinctly engage multiple times (obvious loud roar)...once the fabbed up fan shroud was in place....not so much. I wish I had temp readings to verify what was going on but I don't. Was the fan clutch working overtime...I don't know.

I would have to measure but the face of my fan clutch sits relatively close to the radiator core (stock type radiator in stock location and my V-8 sits fairly close to the front based on mark's adapter spacing). I've thought about moving the engine back some to increase the room between the radiator core and fan to allow for more room to access things up front... I think my fan clutch sits closer to the raditor core than most OEM GM setups....I'll look at my current pickup to get an idea of how close it sits, once the rain we are having stops.

so what is wrong with the performance of the cooling with the fan clutch closer to the radiator... most people with a V-8 swap would be very happy to have the 200F high point and then thermostat low point for a temp range? Thats exaclty what you really want...the engine temp to run approx with the thermostat. So if you have a 180F thermostat.... you are really saying is..."here is where my temp should be all the time"...

Absolutly nothing wrong if you can keep the temps below 200 in the summer. I would not change a thing and I certainly would not go with an electric fan setup...your solution is staring you in the face (almost literally).. What happens during the summer when the A/C is going relative to your engine temps with your present setup?

Looks like you have a very clean install for a V-8 swap.. Also looks like you are running the stock radaitor...what mods have you done to the fan shroud and what are the details regarding your trans and transfercase? Does your fan sit about 1/2 the way into the fan shroud?

You raise some good points and I want to check to see what and OEM setup is vs my engine swap...relative to fan clutch distance to radiator core. I don't have a 99 GM pickup or SUV but I do have a 07 pickup with 6.0 engine and it has a similar type fan clutch so I'll look at it to see and post up in a few days.

 

[coolotisdog]

When I did my engine swap I didn't even try to use the stock radiator. I just mounted the Chevy radiator in there it was at least a foot and a half wider. I hooked up the ac but never built a shroud. I drove it all this summer and never had it run over 200 unless I would let it sit idling for a while. It got pretty hot here in Arizona this summer too.

 

[Clonestocker]

Well the swap is running but not on the road yet. I put the TC back in the stock location so I didn't have to mess around with drive shafts. I took measurement of the Toyota fan clutch distance from the radiator before I took it apart and I think that the Chevy fan is almost in the stock location. Haven't figured a shroud out yet but I hoping that there will be no issues. I think that in the Chevy trucks there is quite a distance between the fan and the radiator. Is there an optimum distance? matt

 

[coolotisdog]

Well the swap is running but not on the road yet. I put the TC back in the stock location so I didn't have to mess around with drive shafts. I took measurement of the Toyota fan clutch distance from the radiator before I took it apart and I think that the Chevy fan is almost in the stock location. Haven't figured a shroud out yet but I hoping that there will be no issues. I think that in the Chevy trucks there is quite a distance between the fan and the radiator. Is there an optimum distance? matt

I have read different opinions. I was under the impression that as long as you had a good shroud the distance was a little irrelevant. Don't quote me on that though....I'm sure somebody on here will argue and say I'm wrong...

 

[Elbert]

When I did my engine swap I didn't even try to use the stock radiator. I just mounted the Chevy radiator in there it was at least a foot and a half wider. I hooked up the ac but never built a shroud. I drove it all this summer and never had it run over 200 unless I would let it sit idling for a while. It got pretty hot here in Arizona this summer too.

Yea the pickup radiator has a good bit more surface area than the 60. If I put a radiator out of something like a 3/4 ton GM pickup my cooling problems would be solved..but right now I don't want to jump off into that because I'm sure my engine would need to be moved back towards the firewall.

 

[Elbert]

I have read different opinions. I was under the impression that as long as you had a good shroud the distance was a little irrelevant. Don't quote me on that though....I'm sure somebody on here will argue and say I'm wrong...

I think there is a magic number somewhere in the mix as the fan clutch generally sense heat and their ability to do so accurately would be impacted by the distance from the radiator core. At least thats the way I think

 

[mmuthart]

so what is wrong with the performance of the cooling with the fan clutch closer to the radiator... most people with a V-8 swap would be very happy to have the 200F high point and then thermostat low point for a temp range? Thats exaclty what you really want...the engine temp to run approx with the thermostat. So if you have a 180F thermostat.... you are really saying is..."here is where my temp should be all the time"...

Absolutly nothing wrong if you can keep the temps below 200 in the summer. I would not change a thing and I certainly would not go with an electric fan setup...your solution is staring you in the face (almost literally).. What happens during the summer when the A/C is going relative to your engine temps with your present setup?

Looks like you have a very clean install for a V-8 swap.. Also looks like you are running the stock radaitor...what mods have you done to the fan shroud and what are the details regarding your trans and transfercase? Does your fan sit about 1/2 the way into the fan shroud?

You raise some good points and I want to check to see what and OEM setup is vs my engine swap...relative to fan clutch distance to radiator core. I don't have a 99 GM pickup or SUV but I do have a 07 pickup with 6.0 engine and it has a similar type fan clutch so I'll look at it to see and post up in a few days.

The 180 degree tstat was just another experiment that went along with a recent Stewart Components Stage 1 High Flow waterpump. From all my reading, it sounds like the TBI 350 should be allowed to warm to 195 degrees for best performance and fuel economy. I'll most likely try a 195 tstat now that my fan clutch is locking up at a lower temp.

My only attraction to the electric setup is that I can control when the fan comes on and off. This would probably also translate to better fuel economy.

So here's a list of things I've done over the years to my rig to try and keep temps down (350 TBI, Mark's Adapter to A440F, new stock aftermarket radiator). None of these things made any noticible difference to engine coolant temps.

Custom Fan Shroud - fan blades half in.
Modified Fan Shroud - so fan blades were only 1/4 in.
Opened up front grill for better airflow.
Cut holes in my hood and put heat vents in.
Added an oil cooler.
Gutted catalyitic convertor.
Installed valving so Tranny fluid could be diverted from tank in bottom of radiator.
Installed aux. tranny cooler w/ fan under pass side foot well.
Wholesale Auto's valve body and torque convertor.
( I originally thought hot tranny fluid temps may be causing too hot of coolant temps. I don't believe this was ever the case. But with the extra tranny cooler and bits from Wholesale Autos, my tranny fluid temps stay under control now.)
Several fan clutches over the years.
Several tstats over the years.
All edges around shroud to radiator surface sealed with foam.
Stewart Compoonents Stage 1 High Flow water pump.

Have been considering an aluminum radiator but at this point, don't believe it would've helped.

If your fan isn't locking up and pulling max air, nothing you do will solve the problem, as I've shown above. I keep my timing advanced about 5 degrees over stock spec. It was also on my list to put this back to spec to see if it helped.

Yeah, I would like to take a look at a stock setup (90's Chevy truck with 350 TBI) and get a meaurement of fan clutch to radiator. Here's another problem with this logic....there are three different 'duty' levels of fan clutches available from Hayden. The 'severe' duty fan clutch is much thicker than the other two. It has additional area for cooling the fluid in the clutch. But this changes how close the clutch is to the radiator unless it's kept consistent by adjusting the stem length. I can't confirm...

 

[Toadhopper]

Wow what good info!
It seems like alot of us have been chasing out tails on this issue.
I was ordering an alum rad, but its out of stock now so i guess it gives me time to work on other things.
I wonder how many of us think the 195 is the right temp to be running the TBI 350?
I keep thinking that once the temp rises above the thermo temp (180 for me) there is something wrong with the cooling system. My thought is that if you set the thermo temp and it begins to creep up its not cooling enough.
There is also 2 different cooling scenarios. The low speed and the high (or freeway speed). I agree the fan clutch is critical to the low speed cooling, but heating up on the freeway is more of a capacity issue since the airflow is above what the fan can produce.

 

[Elbert]

I think a TBI engine is fine at 180F...it causes no problems that I'm aware of and I ran the 92 pickup I use to have with a 180F thermostat for 2 or 3 years without an issue (non smog state, no cat converters). Now if you have to pass smog then it may be better to run 195. Personally I would stay with 180F on a TBI 5.7. For those that may not know... the thermostat on a Vortec 5.7 is of a different design than the old school TBI...so keep that in mind if you look for a lower temp thermostat for a vortec 5.7...I think one year camaro has a stant version for 5.7 with the proper design at 180F, otherwise most you will find are the factory 195F. I believe the hotter running engine passes smog tests better.

I run a 195 thermostat on my 99 Vortec 5.7, as I read somewhere that the ECM on this specific engine looks for the temp to be greater than X amount (factor I've foregotten)...and it ajusts rich / lean based on that to some degree. Big difference in electronics between TBI and CPI (Vortec) 5.7.

Here are my rules of "thumb"... when ambient temps are say below 70...the truck/vehicle will generally run at or close to thermostat temps if the system is setup properly (just like OEM), and it should do that as well all through the normal ambinet temp range...all the way into the 90's...with A/C off and engine not under load. Now during the summer with ambient temps north of 85 and a/c engaged its quite normal for the vehicle to run 10-15degrees F above the thermostat rating, same logic applies to engine under load for extended period..I would expect the engine to get 10-15 degree above thermostat temp while under load.

All of this parallels a OEM vehicle... generally speaking the vehicle should run at the thermostat level or a little bit hotter. As long as you below 215-220 under load you are fine (on a V-8 swap), on a stock OEM truck I epect the temps to stay at or near the thermostat rating _+10-15 degrees.

The biggest issue to me with the V-8 swap is the small surface area of the radiator (width and height) its a given on brass that you have at least a 3 core and most likely a 4 core radiator, there is only so much surface area exposed to air flow.

I agree that if your thermostat temp is 180 and the temp keeps rising and does not baseline then yes you have a problem. But its to be expected that if you are giving it hell on a hill climb under load that the temp (unless dead cold winter) is likley to exceed the thermostat rating on one of these V-8 Swaps.

I also agree that at speed there is more of an issue of system capacity and it points back to the surface area of the radiator that is exposed to air flow, along with anything that restricts air flow across the radiator which may be design issues. You want max air flow across the full surface area of the radiator core, not just a portion of the core. A well designed fan shroud is key in part to that solution. Also add in the mix if you have a 3 core or 4 core brass radaiator. I think with the aluminium radiators it common to have two large cores....

There are a lot of variables in the mix. To me the basics are (1) a functional thermostat (2) water pump in good shape (3) appropriate sized radiator (4) proper designed shroud (5) functional fan & fan clutch. When you get into these swaps...people use different fans and fan clutches, different fan shrouds or no fan shroud, different spacing between radiator core and fan, different spacing regarding fan shroud and fan blades, some people use different aftermarket thermostats and waterpumps, water additives.

I've always believed that GM or whatever vendor of choice made decent parts, so I generally stay with in this case since its a GM engine, Stock OEM water pump, Stock OEM radiator fan, Stock OEM radiator fan clutch (on the engine side). For cooling I'm using 4 core brass type replacemetn type aftermarket radiator, for fan shroud I'm using a fabricated shroud..which I want to modify. Everyone will have different views. I think fan shroud is critical.

Look at the stock OEM pickups, they have a relatively large radiator that is fairly wide, they use a regular water pump and regular fan/fan clutch, they have a full complete fan shroud that captures the fan and also allow air flow across the entire core of the radiator. The new style GM single nut type fan clutch comes only in one configuration..no HD models or severe duty or other design..one model (OE GM model).

unrestircted air flow across the radiator ...both incoming air and the ability of the air to exit under the hood.

I'll try and get a rough measurement of the fan clutch to radiator core distance on my 2500HD when I get home this evening.

 

[Elbert]

Pics of 60

kind of crappy pics and showing off the fan shroud I did a number on .
GM OEM Fan clutch is about 1.5 inches from the radiator core.

I don't have much room to work with, notice how forward the engine is relative to the radiator core.

I plan to get my freind to build me another shroud...based loosely on design I see here http://sleeoffroad.com/project_vehicles/v8-80/v8-80.htm
see pics of fan shroud (scroll down the page) and also based on similarities to the GM shroud below.

My current setup is not the greatest, the fan is about 1/4 in the shroud and 3/4 out, I have concerns about the flat portion of the shroud blocking air flow across the full core.

I modified the lip of the shroud and it looks like crap, before I cut it down the lip extended back quite far and I was concerned about the fan's ability to pull air. While it may seem crazy...the fan seems to work better now than before. Which is kind of unsual...when you see the pics in next post with teh stock gm pickup where the fan is about 100% inside the shroud.

Sorry to take over the thread...but seemed like a good place to debate V-8 cooling solutions and design. I went and looked at the rock auto web site...it looks like there are different GM fan clutches for the 1999 year model GM pickup/suv with 5.7. It also appears that for the 2007 year model 2500 HD there is only one fan clutch ...GM OEM setup. I think I may have made a mistake in something I said elsewhere....not my intent to mislead anyone, other source reference...shows for the 6.0 engine.. two clutches one with air and one without, different sites show thermostat to be 187F too for 6.0 engine.

Ok since I asked others I should make the same notes: 1986 FJ60, 5.7 vortec V-8 from a 1999 GM pickup-SUV, A/C is operational and condensor in place, radiator is aftermarket 4 core brass replacement type, fan and fan clutch match the engine both are new GM, fan shroud is home brewed but does block some of the radiator core and I plan to fix that, I screwed the shroud a little bit when I cut on it, 195 thermostat, green coolant,

In winter truck generally runs around thermostat temp 195 F, In summer without a/c it will run 195-210 and under agressive driving will climb to 220 (6Krpm runs at times) on the road in teh summer if will climb up to 220 or so at 65mph which I think it on teh edge of too hot, it will cool down at idle without an issue, an noted at times the fan clutch seems to have a mind of its own.

Extra info.. 5 speed manual, 4.88 gears, currently 33 tires, lockers etc.. I have a winch but it does not really block the air flow, I also have a p/s cooler in front of the condenser but its not that large to have any real impact on cooling.

One thing I should also make note of is my radiator modifications. I don't recall now but the radiator had 1.5 hose connections and I think my GM engine hoses were 1.25 or vice versa, so anyway I had the radiator modifed to match the hoses. I also ended up moving the lower radiator hose connection to the far passenger side of the tank, because I had clearance issues with the lower radiator hose and the FM fan. The GM fan is roughly 19.5 in width and you can see the single belt drive that is stock on this particular 5.7 vortec. I have added a larger alternator (CS144) which was an option for these engines.

My engine does not sit exactly square with the radiator but its about as close as we could get it and clear the driver side frame/ p/s. To get it totally square would reequire the engine to move to the drivers side another inch or two.

 

[Elbert]

97 gm 2500 hd 6.0

Fan clutch is roughly about 5 inches from the core. Due to the nature of the fan shroud its a little hard to get a good measurement without taking the shroud apart.

I've posted this to show how the GM pickup is setup. I use it to tow my FJ60...it pulls the trailer and 60 which weigh somewhere around 8500-9000+_

Has factory 187F thermostat...it runs somehwere around 195 to 205....I've never seen it get over 210 on the crappy stock guage.

things to notice. Fan shroud allows alr flow across the entire core, the radiator fan is totally captured inside the fan shroud, 100% OEM stock truck.

The title should read 2007 GM 2500 HD.. 6.0 Gas engine.

 

[mmuthart]

Elbert,

Thanks for the pics. As you've already said, there are a lot of variables, fan shroud obviously being one of them.

Here's what gets me, you see reports of guys running no fan shroud and cooling just fine. Based on these reports and my own experience, I'm leaning towards believing that fan shrouds help protect the user from a spinning fan (as in the case of your stock photos), but I think their benefit to overall cooling is maybe smaller than we think. A nice shroud will probably make cooling more efficient, minimizing actual fan clutch lock-up and increasing fuel economy.

In my scenario, now that I have a fan clutch that is actually locking like it's supposed to, I believe I could take off my fan shroud and undo ALL of the things I listed in my previous post that I've done over the years and I would probably still cool just fine. The affects of a properly locking fan clutch were that dramatic for me.

Just my theory based on my experiences. And I don't plan on reversing anything I've previously done.

 

[Toadhopper]

thanks for posting the pics.
I went out a and measured a few things and I realized I may have set the engine angle too steep.
my fan isn't perpendicular to the radiator so im probably not pulling air correctly.
My fan clutch is about 2.5 inches from the rad, and the fan's fins are about half burried at the bottom, but less on the top.
I'm using a Hayes HD clutch and the fan never really spins freely. Maybe if the clutch is always at least semi-engaged then on the freeway the fan isnt letting the air flow freely. It may be creating a cavitation due to its inability to fully disengage. I guess I'll try an OEM GM clutch and see if that doesn't help.
If I re-set the engine (a huge PITA) then the shroud won't line up anymore. The shroud also doesn't have the taper it should like the stock GM one shown in ebert's pics.

 

[Toadhopper]

Here is a couple pics of my set up FWIW

 

[rover67]

also remember that a fan shroud shouldn't just be a flat part bolted to the radiator with a ring that fits the fan tacked to it. It needs to allow air to flow well from all parts and corners of the radiator.

FWIW, I am running a stock radiator (OEM style replacement from the radiator barn anyways) with a modded stock FJ60 shroud with an all stock (except for valve train) vortec with a OEM fan cluttch from a chevy truck, and an OEM fan from a chevy truck. It runs well and I have been in the desert multiple times in lots of conditions with no overheating issues. I have towed a bunch also, but nothing really over 5000lbs.

Only time temp start to climb *slightly* is in the summer when I am headed up the the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 and I have had it floored at 5500-6000 rpm for 10 or 15 minutes to crest the top at 80mph or so. That's when I see the stock gauge climb a bit to the middle area (200-210ish) and flip on the heat for a bit. I compared my stock gauge for hundreds of miles to the output of the water temp sensor (GM) in the head using my computer while I was tuning so I feel like i know what it reads.

In town even on the hottest days with the AC running it does fine. Now hottest days here are just over 100 and the air is thinner and drier, so it may be different than your area but it si a fair test i think.. I think we had a string of 100+ days for a week or so and it never gave any issues.

Now all that being said, I think that it is basically at it's limit. It works but it is at it's limit. Otherwise it wouldn't warm up on the hard climbs up I-70.

Elbert, I bet if you made that shroud flow a little bit better it'd work a bit better.

 

[rover67]

some pics:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/166720-new-heart-same-soul-7.html