Turn Signals Not Working - Not Combination Switch

[NewbieMcNewster]

Sigh... I just pulled my steering wheel and disassembled my whole lower dash and steering column shroud, to replace my combination switch. And after putting it all back together... the turn signals still don't work.

Can someone please tell me what other issues might be to blame here? What else can I look at to replace or try to fix? The horn works, there is no airbag light, the wipers turn on, the cruise control button turns on cruise control - I'm pretty sure I reassembled everything correctly, and it's exactly the same as before: No turn signals. And no hazards either.

Hopefully I just wasted a bit of time and money on an eBay combination switch and learned how to disassemble a bunch of stuff and got a nice clean steering wheel, and there is something minor and simple to blame and fix easily. I'd feel dumb, but that's better than some electrical gremlin that I have no idea how to chase down (electrical stuff is outside my pay grade).

 

[jonheld]

Sigh... I just pulled my steering wheel and disassembled my whole lower dash and steering column shroud, to replace my combination switch. And after putting it all back together... the turn signals still don't work.

Can someone please tell me what other issues might be to blame here? What else can I look at to replace or try to fix? The horn works, there is no airbag light, the wipers turn on, the cruise control button turns on cruise control - I'm pretty sure I reassembled everything correctly, and it's exactly the same as before: No turn signals. And no hazards either.

Hopefully I just wasted a bit of time and money on an eBay combination switch and learned how to disassemble a bunch of stuff and got a nice clean steering wheel, and there is something minor and simple to blame and fix easily. I'd feel dumb, but that's better than some electrical gremlin that I have no idea how to chase down (electrical stuff is outside my pay grade).

Both hazard and turn signals run through the flash relay. Have you checked for the correct voltages hitting it?
Have you checked BOTH fuses?
Are all 5 ground points solid?

 

[Malleus]

Unfortunately, without a meter, there's no way to determine what the problem is; you have to be able to verify continuity in order to resolve electrical problems...including whether or not your new ebay switch is good.

Fortunately, it's not beyond you. Buy a cheap digital multimeter, they're available at every auto parts store. For this exercise, every one is going to be as good as every other one. Try to find one with an audible continuity function, like this:

To use it, turn the dial to the beep setting and touch both ends of a wire to the read and black leads. If there is a continuous circuit, it'll beep. If there isn't it won't. That's all there is to it. To verify that a ground exists, and all Toyota circuits use a ground to complete the circuit, touch one lead to the wire or terminal and the other to some metal on the body close by.

The wiring diagram tells you which color wire does what. Download the EWD for your year model; it's in the Resources forum, 80s section.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Both hazard and turn signals run through the flash relay. Have you checked for the correct voltages hitting it?
Have you checked BOTH fuses?
Are all 5 ground points solid?

View attachment 4099259

See the problem is... I have no idea how to read that. Or where the second fuse is (I checked the drivers kick panel fuse box). Or where the five grounds are. I know this is frustrating for well-meaning people who give advice about electrical stuff, but this is all way outside of my knowledge base and I don't know when I'd have the time to learn it will enough to figure it out.

I definitely appreciate that it is likely something having to do with the relay at this point, and I can find videos online that at least show me how to test to see if a relay is good (I have a multimeter, though I have almost no idea how to use most of its functions properly). I guess I'll start there to see if it's fried (I think I've replaced it already once because I put LED turn signals in and was getting hyperflashing - so unless it was a total piece of junk I'd be surprised if that's the problem). Then after that I guess I'll dig into all this and see if I can teach myself something... Again, sigh...

Seriously though, thanks for the help. This type of wiring diagram response is just really intimidating. Hell, I was proud of myself for managing to the correct places to reinsert all of the screws and bolts I removed just to take the dash apart, so tracking down a bunch of wires has me despairing a bit.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Unfortunately, without a meter, there's no way to determine what the problem is; you have to be able to verify continuity in order to resolve electrical problems...including whether or not your new ebay switch is good.

Fortunately, it's not beyond you. Buy a cheap digital multimeter, they're available at every auto parts store. For this exercise, every one is going to be as good as every other one. Try to find one with an audible continuity function, like this:
View attachment 4099260
To use it, turn the dial to the beep setting and touch both ends of a wire to the read and black leads. If there is a continuous circuit, it'll beep. If there isn't it won't. That's all there is to it. To verify that a ground exists, and all Toyota circuits use a ground to complete the circuit, touch one lead to the wire or terminal and the other to some metal on the body close by.

The wiring diagram tells you which color wire does what. Download the EWD for your year model; it's in the Resources forum, 80s section.

Hey Malleus, thanks for jumping in to help me again! I have a multimeter, though I don't think it has a beep function. What am I looking for if it doesn't beep? Mine has all the numbers around the dial, like the once pictured below. As I mentioned to jonheld, I'm starting to get more comfortable physically taking things apart and putting them back together (I'll get started on that knuckle job eventually!), but the wiring and electrical stuff is way outside of my knowledge base and really intimidating. [EDIT: It looks like that picture might have a continuity beep - I'll have to check mine when I get home]

 

[Malleus]

Fear not, reading was beyond you before you learned how to do it. Now, you don't give it a second thought.

Download the EWD (EWD270U). The ground points are identified in a diagram (this is from the 1996 LX450 EWD):

The ground points in the engine compartment are in the open. "EA" & "EB" are on the inner fenders; "EC" is on the engine. In addition to "EB", there's one from the battery on the inner fender also.

The two ground points inside the cabin are behind the plastic kickpanel covers. They will be immediately obvious: there is a bundle of wires terminated in a ring connector that is sewed to the body.

 

[Malleus]

Hey Malleus, thanks for jumping in to help me again! I have a multimeter, though I don't think it has a beep function. What am I looking for if it doesn't beep? Mine has all the numbers around the dial, like the once pictured below. As I mentioned to jonheld, I'm starting to get more comfortable physically taking things apart and putting them back together (I'll get started on that knuckle job eventually!), but the wiring and electrical stuff is way outside of my knowledge base and really intimidating. [EDIT: It looks like that picture might have a continuity beep - I'll have to check mine when I get home]
View attachment 4099837

It does, immediately to the right of the 200–Ohm selector position (immediately above where you have the black lead connected). That should also autorange, so the display will select the range of resistance to display a readable number with.

Select that position and touch the two lead probes together. It should beep at you.

The beep is just handy so you don't have to look at the display and what you're trying to assess, at the same time. Sometimes you touch the contacts points, turn your head to look at the display, and lose contact. The display shows nothing, and you don't know why. Not necessary, just nice to have.

If yours doesn't have an audible alarm, just make sure you have good contact at the leads and read the display. Any resistance will be displayed as a number. When checking continuity, you don't care what the number is, you only care that there is a number. If there is a break in the circuit (in other words, a "discontinuity"), the display will show the same thing it does with the test leads not touching anything.

FWIW, there is a manual on how to use this thing, in the Resources Forum, 80 series section. Courtesy of Toyota training academy.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Fear not, reading was beyond you before you learned how to do it. Now, you don't give it a second thought.

Download the EWD (EWD270U). The ground points are identified in a diagram (this is from the 1996 LX450 EWD):
View attachment 4099838
The ground points in the engine compartment are in the open. "EA" & "EB" are on the inner fenders; "EC" is on the engine. In addition to "EB", there's one from the battery on the inner fender also.

View attachment 4099839
The two ground points inside the cabin are behind the plastic kickpanel covers. They will be immediately obvious: there is a bundle of wires terminated in a ring connector that is sewed to the body.

I seriously don't even know how you hold down a job, with the amount of time you spend just helping me on this forum, much less others. Thanks again, friend! If you want to grab a beer next time you're in town, just let me know and I'd be happy to host you or take the LX and come meet you somewhere!

 

[Malleus]

NP, post back when you get to your next step.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

It does, immediately to the right of the 200–Ohm selector position (immediately above where you have the black lead connected). That should also autorange, so the display will select the range of resistance to display a readable number with.

Select that position and touch the two lead probes together. It should beep at you.

The beep is just handy so you don't have to look at the display and what you're trying to assess, at the same time. Sometimes you touch the contacts points, turn your head to look at the display, and lose contact. The display shows nothing, and you don't know why. Not necessary, just nice to have.

If yours doesn't have an audible alarm, just make sure you have good contact at the leads and read the display. Any resistance will be displayed as a number. When checking continuity, you don't care what the number is, you only care that there is a number. If there is a break in the circuit (in other words, a "discontinuity"), the display will show the same thing it does with the test leads not touching anything.

FWIW, there is a manual on how to use this thing, in the Resources Forum, 80 series section. Courtesy of Toyota training academy.

Not germane to this specific post, but the reason my activity is spiking on the forums is because after a long period of spreading myself too thin with too many vehicles that all needed attention, I'm finally down to a DD and the LX. I sold my Range Rover a few months back (so no more expensive repair bills for that nightmare) and this weekend I finally sold my 2004 M3, so now everything my wife and I own is relatively reliable and new, except for the LX. Now I can stop worrying about my dailies, and instead put all of my spare thought and time into coming up with projects on the LX!! I consider this cause for celebration.

Of course, the hitch is that I don't know how to do any of the projects I want to do on the LX, hahaha. So I truly appreciate your help and everyone else's on here. It's amazing to have this resource of such deeply knowledgeable folks with such specific expertise.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Okay, so following the instructions that Google gave me, I tested the relay for the flashers, and it reads as OL. I believe this means that the relay is bad??? Can someone confirm? If so, that's fantastic news, because I can get a new relay off Amazon for $10 and it'll be here tomorrow!

See multimeter test results below - I tried every combination of probe and post and they all came up OL.

 

[Malleus]

You have to energize the relay. There is a spring inside that the little electromagnetic has to overcome. That's what "makes" the switch inside close.

How to test a relay

Please don't put cheap Chinese parts in your truck. It won't like them. Spend the extra dollar and buy parts from the dealership. A $30 part that lasts 30 years is cheaper than a $3.98 part that last one year. Or several months. Or days.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

You have to energize the relay. There is a spring inside that the little electromagnetic has to overcome. That's what "makes" the switch inside close.

Please don't put cheap Chinese parts in your truck. It won't like them. Spend the extra dollar and buy parts from the dealership. A $30 part that last 30 years is cheaper than a $3.98 part that last one year.

Are you saying that it has to be energized to test? So my test with it out of the vehicle and without power wouldn't tell me if it's good or bad? Everything that I've seen online has suggested that it should read as having some resistance in it, even just sitting on a table...

Is there an OEM relay that will work for LED turn signals to avoid hyperflashing?

 

[Malleus]

Use the link I gave you to test the relay.

You neglected to mention the problem you have is with LED turn signals. That's a separate problem.

Install the OEM bulbs and then test the signal switch.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Use the link I gave you to test the relay.

You neglected to mention the problem you have is with LED turn signals. That's a separate problem.

Install the OEM bulbs and then test the signal switch.

If I'm reading your link right (I didn't see it at first), then the multimeter reading OL indicates that the relay is bad. I got excited and impatient yesterday and ordered this guy off Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XAU66V4/?tag=ihco-20 - because it was suggested by folks on this forum in other posts about LED turn signals hyperflashing. If it works, then at least I'll have confirmed a diagnosis and then I can consider whether there's a better solution. I figure that if it works but isn't the best quality, then the worst case is I have to replace the relay every few years? Not the worst problem to have, all things considered...

 

[Malleus]

None of what you're doing is going to help you determine whether the turn signal switch is defective, or not.

That relay isn't going to solve the root cause of the LED flashing to fast, or often. The LED doesn't provide the resistance the circuit was designed for; the proper way to add a cheap one is to add a resistor inline with the bulb, but that causes its own problems.

LEDs are great, I have some in my 80s, but not in the turn signals. I have them in places I need lights: headlights, backup lights and taillights. And I have quality LASFIT bulbs.

If you simply must have LED turn signal bulbs, buy LASFIT bulbs.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Well, the Amazon flasher relay arrived - it plugged right in, and the hazards and turn signals all started working. For now, I'm gonna call that a problem solved. If it turns out that this is a stopgap and there's some other gremlin that is gonna cause them to crap out again in another year or two, I can address it then. At least for now I don't have to hope people can intuit my intentions in traffic!

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Oh yeah - if anyone wants an OEM, apparently still working, combination switch, hit me up with a PM. I've got the one that I pulled that apparently didn't need pulling...