TJM 4" Lift Install (1 Viewer)

[Rusty]

I've finally installed a 4" lift in my '97 LX450. I called up Extreme Land Cruiser and ordered up a set of TJM 4" springs, shocks, panhard rods, Ironman caster correction plates, and other goodies at Ryan's advice (parts I knew I needed anyway, sway bar drop blocks etc.).

I started installing the kit last week because I was supposed to be chasing a friend of mine who was supposed to be racing in the Baja 1000 this week, unfortunately he ended up breaking his ankle pre-running the other day so plans have changed. I'm no longer heading down there, which is just as well really since the suspension is certainly not long distance road worthy yet.

I like the stance that the TJM springs offer, and the fact that they are now available in black. I really couldn't find anyone who had anything bad to say about their parts and since Slee and other vendors are selling them now I figured they must be good. Installation went relatively smooth, I did end up fighting the TJM adjustable front panhard rod though, which is something that I think is now causing me grief with front end geometry (read on!)

Other problem areas that I encountered are the TJM extended brake line kit and the Ironman caster correction plates. TJM only has 2 brake lines in their kit, which should really include a third. The one that should be supplied for later 80 series is the front axle brake line that travels from the passenger side frame to the axle assembly, the stock Toyota brake line is quite stretched at full down travel.

I only received two brake lines in my kit, whether or not this is right I don't know, I haven't heard back from Extreme Land Cruiser on that yet. Christo Slee believes that TJM is aware of this problem, hopefully they make good on setting their brake line kit up with this third brake line.

Ironman caster correction plates are problematic as well if you have a LHD Cruiser, the front upper bolt won't pass through the caster plate, it's bound by the diff on one side and the panhard rod bracket on the other. Competitor's caster plates for the North American LHD market utilize a pair of 1" (25mm) long bolts to mount the passenger's side caster plate at his bolt hole. Keep this flaw in mind with their kit, I'd just recommend buying someone else's kit to avoid the hassle of having to buy bolts elsewhere, hardware that should really be included.

The biggest problem that I have however is with the front driver's side spring getting caught on the metal bump stop cup. I took the Cruiser out for a quick drive after I got the suspension in and the brakes bled and it didn't ride that great. I ended up driving on a road with quite a bit of camber on it and it felt like it was high on the driver's side. I then drove into a parking lot where I hit a speed bump, I heard the familiar "twang" of the spring hitting something.

I got out and found that the driver's side spring in the aforementioned condition, and the spring even had the powder coat chip off where it hit the metal cup. The passenger's side front bump stop isn't in the center of the spring either, but there is plenty of clearance for he spring to travel.

I realize that caster correction plates effectively shorten the radius arms, but this doesn't explain the difference between the driver's and passenger's side spring position. My truck is in good shape and has a collision free history, besides, the geometry was even before the lift install.

I think the cause lies with the TJM front pan hard rod. While the construction is solid, I questioned its trueness on install. I dropped the factory rod out with the suspension loaded, it popped out fairly easily. When I went to install the TJM rod (again with the weight on the wheels) I had to force it over 4 inches or so and pry and drift it in with a hammer, when I did finally get it in and the bolt holes close, I had to fight some more to get the bolts to start in the holes (the bushings are not parallel to the bolt holes). At first it was the urethane bushings that were tight (even after I greased them up) but it soon became apparent that the rod ends aren't true, it's as if the ends are offset.

Once the suspension settled in the driver's side radius arm seemed to travel down, the shock on the driver's side is extended the better part of an inch or so more than the passenger's side. It's not so bad that you can see it just to look at it from a distance, but something isn't right. I think that the panhard rod is offset and bound up, hitting the speed bump in the parking lot jarred it free and caused the driver's side radius arm to drop and shift the axle spring perch to kick back causing the spring to draw back in relation to the bump stop.

Tomorrow I'll reinstall the factory panhard to see if the axle sits in a better position. I'll post photos tomorrow as well.

 

[landtank]

the problem with the springs catching on the bump stop tower is indicative of all the plates with that type of design. Most grind the lip off the tower. While at it you might as well grind the top edge of the front arms as the tie rod will likely contact there as well during flexing.

 

[Rusty]

the problem with the springs catching on the bump stop tower is indicative of all the plates with that type of design. Most grind the lip off the tower. While at it you might as well grind the top edge of the front arms as the tie rod will likely contact there as well during flexing.

I read a post that you commented on a few years ago regarding the design of some of the caster plates that are on the market. No doubt that is partially the cause, but this doesn't explain the lateral difference between the driver's and passenger's side of the axle assembly. If both springs were sitting in the same place in relation to the bump stops then I would agree the caster plates are the only problem, but they are quite different.

If the axle doesn't come true with the pan hard rod changed out then the caster plates will be removed and the assembly replaced with new proper length radius arms.

I'm not they type of person that will grind the truck to adjust for parts that affect geometry in a negative way, that's not putting it right in my book.

 

[Rusty]

I tried removing the pan hard rod to free things up. For whatever reason the driver's side spring is right up against the bump stop, the passenger's side isn't far behind. The pan hard rod is free, it seems to move without much trouble and doesn't seem to be binding like it seemed to be on initial install. I adjusted it to center the axle with the sway bar disconnected, did everything back up and did a final torque to factory specs. on the pan hard and sway bar fasteners.

It looks like I'll be buying radius arms.

 

[Alexbv]

Do you have any pictures of the binding?

 

[Rusty]

Driver and Passenger Springs

Do you have any pictures of the binding?

Passenger (left photo) and driver's side (right photo) springs. Note the position of the metal cup...

 

[Rusty]

The TJM 4" Lift Overall...

Here's a photo of the lift overall, other than the non TJM associated part teething problems, I can say that I'm really happy the way the Cruiser handles on the 315's. Firm but not harsh and quite stable. The lift is a little lower in the back I think, (haven't actually measured it yet) but I don't have any weight up front. I have an ARB winch bumper in my shop waiting to go on which will eventually have a winch installed. It should be fairly level once the weight is on the front end, which will be great if it means not adding spacers. Fingers crossed.

 

[Rusty]

For the record, the suspension is now sitting fairly level on the front. I have to say that immediately after I installed the lift I took the Cruiser out for a spin, it drove like crap, it seemed higher on the driver's side front (which it was) and didn't seem to handle all that well. I gotta say I wondered what the hell I'd done to my poor Cruiser.

Following the spring in the parking lot fiasco I took it home and parked it, the next day I took it out to the tire shop to have the 315-75-16 Toyo Open Country MT's installed. The suspension must have "settled in", it felt completely different. After the tires were installed I brought it home, and it got better still.

That morning I had removed the panhard rod to see if it was binding, I had none of the "fight" that I had on initial install. I guess the suspension must have found a happy spot, including the urethane bushings in the panhard rod.

 

[landtank]

No doubt that is partially the cause, but this doesn't explain the lateral difference between the driver's and passenger's side of the axle assembly.

After market springs are different lengths for each side to compensate for differences in weight on each side. So all things aren't equal.

 

[Delancy]

It looks like I'll be buying radius arms.

I can't believe there aren't more options for arms, considering the prevalence of ~4" lifts that warrant, and that the majority of us belong in the "bolt on" crowd.

On the surface it appears it'd take Slee's involvement to produce, so assuming there's a fiscal reason it's not on the product line-up.

It only makes geometric sense that lengthening any side of a triangle affects the corresponding lengths of the other two planes, something caster corrective plates aren't capable of.

 

[sleeoffroad]

FWIW, you can run our arms with a 4" lift and use caster bushings to dial out some caster if needed.

The issue with arms are the cost to produce them. It takes our machine shop a day to produce a set.

http://sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_control_arms.htm

You start with this,

this is scrap

and then you get this.

 

[Delancy]

FWIW, you can run our arms with a 4" lift and use caster bushings to dial out some caster if needed.

Good information to know.

I'd assume they have to be longer than OE, considering designed for 6" coils, but I spell it ASS-O(f)-ME, most of the time.

The issue with arms are the cost to produce them.

If it can't be afforded to do right the first time, when will it ever be affordable in the future.

In my opinion, as critical as swapping UCAs on a lifted IFS.

Can't afford it, then don't lift it until it can be.

 

[devildogcruiser25]

FWIW, you can run our arms with a 4" lift and use caster bushings to dial out some caster if needed.

The issue with arms are the cost to produce them. It takes our machine shop a day to produce a set.

http://sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_control_arms.htm

You start with this,

this is scrap

and then you get this.

Those are pieces of art! I notice you are on the forum quite a bit lately, any reason?

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[Rusty]

FWIW, you can run our arms with a 4" lift and use caster bushings to dial out some caster if needed.

The issue with arms are the cost to produce them. It takes our machine shop a day to produce a set.

What's the chance of tweaking the CNC code to make a run of slightly shorter arms to suit a 4" lift?

I guess this would also involve altering the location of the axle mounts for proper caster correction.

Knowing my luck I'd buy a pair of 6" arms and end up with the axle too far forward!

 

[Rusty]

I can't believe there aren't more options for arms, considering the prevalence of ~4" lifts that warrant, and that the majority of us belong in the "bolt on" crowd.

On the surface it appears it'd take Slee's involvement to produce, so assuming there's a fiscal reason it's not on the product line-up.

It only makes geometric sense that lengthening any side of a triangle affects the corresponding lengths of the other two planes, something caster corrective plates aren't capable of.

Good information to know.

I'd assume they have to be longer than OE, considering designed for 6" coils, but I spell it ASS-O(f)-ME, most of the time.



If it can't be afforded to do right the first time, when will it ever be affordable in the future.

In my opinion, as critical as swapping UCAs on a lifted IFS.

Can't afford it, then don't lift it until it can be.

I agree, this caster plate thing has me baffled, I can't see how folks are prepared to accept their short comings.

It's not as if other add on parts aren't expensive, I paid nearly 2K for my set of tires. Bumpers, winches etc. are just as expensive. One would think that if a person can justify buying these other parts at that price point they would value proper suspension geometry as least as much, because when you think about it the suspension is the foundation of your Cruiser.

I'm fully prepared to buy a set of arms for my 4" lift, unfortunately it looks like Superior Engineering in Australia is the only place that makes them.

 

[Rusty]

After market springs are different lengths for each side to compensate for differences in weight on each side. So all things aren't equal.

This is true, and where the driver's side was visibly sitting higher for some reason immediately after the install, it's not now. Like I say it seems to have settled in.

 

[Delancy]

unfortunately it looks like Superior Engineering in Australia is the only place that makes them.

Agreed on all accounts and went about the "lift" differently than most, but found the SE arms to be the only option.

I'm not a spokesperson for SE, nor am I a chest beater about how good my chit is, for the record.

If it works, will relay, and if it doesn't, the same.

I'd buy the SE arms again, considering there wasn't a viable option (Gibson never replied and didn't know that Slee was an option) and based on the technical merits of the engineering.

Real world testing to commence this weekend, but still running the temporary OMEs that I can't stand, so flex will be limited to the shocks constraints.

Sounds like Slee may have a solution that's worth pursuing further. My opinion is to exhaust that avenue first, before sinking the money into the SEs due to the absorbent freight expense, alone.

No, I won't divulge what I paid.

Christo posted that the possibility exist, so assuming (or ASS-O(f)-ME) he could be set up for 4" for less money, time, and hassle than importing, plus you'll get a sticker.

 

[landtank]

I'm not sure why people seem to think you need longer arms with a 4" lift.

In stock form the center of the axle is 2" higher than that of where the arms bolt to the frame mount.

Assuming a 4" springs yields 4" of lift then the axle is now 2" lower than the frame mount.

So comparing the axles position vertically they are exactly the same. They are just at the opposing sides of zero.

This was one of the design considerations when engineering my caster plates. I wanted a plate system that would retain the axle's position on the arm. That was achieved by relocating the holes on the axle bracket to only rotate the axle.

Attached are a couple of pics taken just a few minutes ago of a stock truck sitting in my drive way.

 

[Rusty]

Agreed on all accounts and went about the "lift" differently than most, but found the SE arms to be the only option.

I'm not a spokesperson for SE, nor am I a chest beater about how good my chit is, for the record.

If it works, will relay, and if it doesn't, the same.

I'd buy the SE arms again, considering there wasn't a viable option (Gibson never replied and didn't know that Slee was an option) and based on the technical merits of the engineering.

Real world testing to commence this weekend, but still running the temporary OMEs that I can't stand, so flex will be limited to the shocks constraints.

Sounds like Slee may have a solution that's worth pursuing further. My opinion is to exhaust that avenue first, before sinking the money into the SEs due to the absorbent freight expense, alone.

No, I won't divulge what I paid.

Christo posted that the possibility exist, so assuming (or ASS-O(f)-ME) he could be set up for 4" for less money, time, and hassle than importing, plus you'll get a sticker.

I'm going about my lift a little differently too, I could have bought one of Christo's comprehensive 4" kits and I'm sure I would have been happy with it. I decided to go the route I did because I liked what I heard about TJM springs and shocks and I especially liked the fact that I could get them in black.

Even TJM's gold shocks complement the cheese-ball gold emblems and trim on my LX450 (I chose to embrace it rather than try to eradicate it!)

It looks as though the TJM springs will work out well without spacers to correct "stinkbug" stance as well. Not that I mind slightly more lift in the back, but if things level out with weight on the front end I'll be happy.

If S.E. has arms specifically for the 4" lift then I think I'll buy them. If they get back to me I'll get them through SoCal, they have them listed for around $1300.

Whatever I buy I'm importing anyway, I live in Canada and even if I have to get them from Australia direct I will, I'm used to doing business with Aus. I just finished buying a bell housing kit off Dellow Conversions down under so that I can mate a 2UZ-FE V8 to an H55F to drop into my '72 FJ40. Don't ask how much that cost to acquire and ship!

Sometimes you gotta pay to play...

As a second option I'll go with Slee, unless they decide to start carving out arms for a 4" lift. It would still be easier to buy from them but I don't think it makes sense to buy 6" arms only to have to set the caster back with offset bushings. I think you run the risk of doing the exact opposite of installing caster plates by shifting the axle forward.

Besides Mr. Slee has already sent me several stickers and can send me one more when I buy a front d.c. shaft off him.

 

[bhmmapping]

I'm not sure why people seem to think you need longer arms with a 4" lift.



This was one of the design considerations when engineering my caster plates. I wanted a plate system that would retain the axle's position on the arm. That was achieved by relocating the holes on the axle bracket to only rotate the axle.

I think you answered your own question. People install plates that just raise the front bolt and move the axle backwards. I had that problem on my last truck with the ironman plates.