Tire chain & cable discussion - not "will it fit" (1 Viewer)

[bloc]

Hello all,

I'm looking into tire chains to have on-hand and being from Texas there isn't much in the way of experienced advice local to me. Figured I'd see what others on here think, since this could go beyond myself.

I want to get a set of chains for the rear of my cruiser, running 285/70R17 tires. When checking the Peerless site they offer 9 different versions for my tire size. Some of these are specifically labeled "wal-mart", so I'm excluding them.

Of what's left, there are a few options. Z-chains, which are cables. Z-8, another, heavier duty cable. Twist-link chains, with cams. standard twist link. Square-rod alloy chains.

So I figured I'd ask.. what are the merits of cables over chains? Rubber tensioners vs cams?

Intended use would be very very rare.. think texas snowpocalypse 2, or possibly for safety if I find myself on a very muddy trail. That last detail has me leaning toward chains over cables. And the cams seem better than relying on rubber tensioners.. but I'm truly ignorant on this detail.

Thoughts?

As it is I need to make sure they will clear my king reservoirs in the back..

Pictures to help..

z-chain

Super Z-8

QG3229CAM Wide Base CAM STD Twist

Same without the cams

"V-bar"

"square rod alloy"

 

[gaijin]

Hello all,

I'm looking into tire chains to have on-hand and being from Texas there isn't much in the way of experienced advice local to me. Figured I'd see what others on here think, since this could go beyond myself.

I want to get a set of chains for the rear of my cruiser, running 285/70R17 tires. When checking the Peerless site they offer 9 different versions for my tire size. Some of these are specifically labeled "wal-mart", so I'm excluding them.

Of what's left, there are a few options. Z-chains, which are cables. Z-8, another, heavier duty cable. Twist-link chains, with cams. standard twist link. Square-rod alloy chains.

So I figured I'd ask.. what are the merits of cables over chains? Rubber tensioners vs cams?

Intended use would be very very rare.. think texas snowpocalypse 2, or possibly for safety if I find myself on a very muddy trail. That last detail has me leaning toward chains over cables. And the cams seem better than relying on rubber tensioners.. but I'm truly ignorant on this detail.

Thoughts?

As it is I need to make sure they will clear my king reservoirs in the back..

Pictures to help..

z-chain
View attachment 2868490

Super Z-8
View attachment 2868491

QG3229CAM Wide Base CAM STD Twist
View attachment 2868494

Same without the cams
View attachment 2868497

"V-bar"
View attachment 2868500

"square rod alloy"
View attachment 2868502

I have the Security Chain Company SZ462 Super Z8 8mm chains - find them here on Amazon: SZ462 Super Z8 8mm chains

Pic to confirm:

Luckily (?) I have only test fitted these chains on the rear with my LT285/70R17 KO2's so I cannot report on performance in mud or snow, but there appears to be plenty of clearance inboard, so should be no problem with your shock reservoirs.

Growing up in northern New England, I do however have a lot of experience with chains in general. No matter what style you settle on, I strongly recommend using the rubber tensioners (and carry a spare set of tensioners, just in case). Chains can shift and loosen during use. The rubber tensioners can assure a tight fit when this happens.

HTH

 

[doru]

I haven't use chains on the truck. I used them on other cars and SUV's.
But since changing to two sets of tires (winter/summer) I never used them again although I carry them in the winter (just in case and because law requirements around here).

Our trucks have good traction even with good thread A/S tires. With snow tires they are good to go on any maintained road - and I think that is your ask here. If not please specify.

I like Z cables something close to super z-8. They are a good compromise between ultimate snow traction, and ease of install, compact storage, less vibration, less noise.

I personally don't like chains for driving on roads.

 

[tbisaacs]

I’ve ran both and went back to the Z8s.

- they are lower profile than chains and you can use them on the front wheel with a greater degree of safety if running larger than stock tires or offset. Less risk of hitting the UCA or body mount

- the coils on the cable have much greater surface area to bite. Notice how a snow tire has a greater number of closely grouped sipes vs big lugs like a mud terrain tire? It’s all about surface area

- they pack up much more compactly

 

[bloc]

Thanks for the feedback. Where I live dedicated snow tires just don’t make sense.

My cruiser did impress me during our ice storm last year, but there were icy roads up and down hills where good chains would have allowed passage. The need for them on hills is part of what has me considering real chains over cables, as I perceive them as being stronger and capable of handling more torque/force. We had a number of fire apparatus pop cables in conditions my gut says chains could have survived.

Plus, when dealing with mud the larger cross section seems like it would be a benefit.

But the surface area argument is a good one. I assumed the weight of the vehicle pushed the chains into the snow/ice enough to fracture it so this didn’t matter as much, but could be wrong.

Part of it was looking at what heavy commercial trucks use, and assuming the high torque/forces might carry over to the use case I have in mind. Invariably, chains. But then I’m not a heavy commercial truck either.

@gaijin have you messed with the cam-style tensioners found on a few of the above pictures? They seem to do the job of rubber bands more positively.

 

[doru]

If ice is your game then cables is the answer. Chains make more sense in deep stuff. I'm skeptical about the effectiveness of chains in mud, sure they help but better get AT tires for that. Also chains or cables do not like to spin or they might start hitting stuff around under the car causing high cost damage.

Commercial trucks are an entire different game. Time, costs, wear come into play. They drive slow compared to us. They do not care about comfort or noise, the chains need to last a while under the high load of cargo and torque, they need to be cheap enough (they lose them quiet often), and be easy to install around those huge tires without rolling or jacking the truck. They do not care about clearance, and they do not have drive on front wheels.

Please note that there is also the "cloth" type of traction devices. You did not mention them but that is an entire category on its own. Meant for occasional use especially on slippery stuff (less effective for deep snow). Some are good if used for intended purposes and not abused. They do pack small. I have no experience with them though as my use is on the heavy side.

 

[doru]

Cams make sense for heavy equipment. The huge highway snow plows and the snow combines use them. It is a more secure system than rubber bands for such high torque beasts. They still add some heavy duty rubber bands straps for preventing them from flapping but the rubber is not the main thing securing them or taking up the load.

 

[doru]

For your particular case of once in a blue moon snow in Texas you are sweating it too much.

If you like chains, just go with them and be done with it. There is nothing wrong with using chains. Just make sure you add some rubber straps if they do not come with and hook two of them across each wheel.

Search Results for rubber straps at The Home Depot

Search Results for rubber straps at The Home Depot

www.homedepot.com

P.S. make sure the straps hooks do not damage the sidewall, otherwise you have to replace the hooks with some quick links like this

Everbilt 3/8 in. Stainless Steel Quick Link 42794 - The Home Depot

Quick Links are designed to make permanent and temporary connections. Quickly attach chain and chain accessories. Quick Links should be used with chain or other items with equal or lower working load limits. Tools are not required for attachments, simply tighten shut.

www.homedepot.com

 

[gaijin]

@gaijin have you messed with the cam-style tensioners found on a few of the above pictures? They seem to do the job of rubber bands more positively.

Yes, but always with one of these (found here on Amazon: Chain Tensioner):

The cams can sometimes be easier to install (sometimes harder), but do not do as good a job as the rubber tensioner at keeping the chains tight. We never ran any chains without a rubber tensioner - or two.

HTH

 

[gaijin]

Yes, but always with one of these (found here on Amazon: Chain Tensioner):

View attachment 2868596

The cams can sometimes be easier to install (sometimes harder), but do not do as good a job as the rubber tensioner at keeping the chains tight. We never ran any chains without a rubber tensioner - or two.

HTH

Here's an even better one - sold by the company that sells the cam-style chains you are asking about:

Find it here on Amazon: Even better tensioner

HTH

 

[HSTexan]

Subscribed to this--I guess I have never traveled out to Colorado in bad weather until this past year and didn't realize there was chain law there. Would like a set to have on hand if I ever find myself out there in bad weather

 

[MikeVpdx503]

I have the Peerless Z583, same tire size as you. I have put them on a couple times for chain requirements driving over Siskiyou pass crossing OR/CA border and Blue Mts crossing OR/ID border. Easy to put on, no tensioner required and fit perfect with KO2s. No issues with not having tensioner driving ~25 MPH and they are my preferred since I rarely have to use them and they are easy on/off. If I had to do any distance with them, the Z8 with tensioner would be a better option. Since you indicate that your use might include off road recovery, chains would have a clear advantage over cables as any down and dirty mud/rock/roots would eat up cables pretty quick.

 

[bloc]

The line of logic with regard to mud is simply I am looking at traction aids, and as infrequently as I’ll use them in ice/snow, mud may end up being a decent proportion of how they get used.

The trail I wish I had them on years ago was a muddy road along a power line.. not horribly steep, but very slick to the point I was sliding everywhere, and sections where the road was elevated above canyons, without much of a shoulder or berm. It was truly sketchy. I had ATs but they just packed up with mud. My current ATs are better, however.

Totally makes sense to run tensioners even with cams. I’ll do that if I end up with chains.

And as for the fabric parts, yeah let’s talk. This is intended to be discussion about traction aids in general, not just what works for me.

Since you indicate that your use might include off road recovery, chains would have a clear advantage over cables as any down and dirty mud/rock/roots would eat up cables pretty quick.

Great point about the rocks.. I didn’t consider that.

And yes if I did cables I’d probably go with the z8s

 

[doru]

Because you mentioned slick off road one advantage on the Z style is a bit of sideways traction if you are traversing some slope.
Something like this
Amazon product ASIN B003SK8DMQThis is not as important on snow as roads are not banked so much.

 

[bloc]

Because you mentioned slick off road one advantage on the Z style is a bit of sideways traction if you are traversing some slope.

I was thinking that exactly.

 

[TeCKis300]

Great topic as winter approaches (some are already in the thick of it).

I travel to snow country regularly in the winter to ski which may have a different answer than those living in snow country. It's a major reason I have the LX. With the large 35s I have, there's no hope of fitting chains. Not all is lost as it's been built with snow in mind. There's no practical reason I would ever need chains. Other than say I have them at check points where I get waved by.

Snowflake rated with solid cold weather performance Toyo AT3s are my real answer for snow traction. With fallbacks using the same strategies for off-road traction and recovery: airing down, snatch strap, traction boards, and soon to have a hidden winch.

If I had the option and were looking for chains, the Z8s seem to be an awesome option. I've had 32" tire chains and with these and larger tire sizes, chains get to be really huge and heavy. Anything that's more compact is good for rare use. I have some generic emergency use rim ratchet on chains just so I can legitimately say I do have at checkpoints. I don't intend to ever fall back on chains as I have IMO better option ahead of that, but these are not recognized by highway patrol.

I echo those on having good and maybe an extra set of tensioners. They'll help the traction devices last longer and work better. Some cables simply won't work without enough tension as the barrels on cables when loose, act as roller bearings. Seen enough city slickers in Big Bear do that and it's half comedic. Imagine a high trim late gen Camaro and summer tires which is bad enough. Add loose cables acting as roller bearings, lots of frustration, and lots of gas. Not going anywhere.

 

[bloc]

I’m starting to think two sets would be smart.. cables for winter and (much lower priority) chains for recovery.

If I end up on these steep icy hills where torque is an issue again in Austin and cables aren’t getting the job done or risk breaking, the chains won’t be far away. Any winter ski trips I could bring the z8s and handle anything the AT3s and AWD won’t (plus be legal if checked).

Btw it is a humbling feeling knowing if there were a fire two blocks from your station you couldn’t do anything beyond search for victims.. no water on the fire. Mine was at the base of a hilly neighborhood and even with cables for every apparatus we were not getting up those hills if something happened. We used my arb snatch strap and a comically-small (on the back of a 75,000lb ladder truck) bubba rope soft shackle to pull the tail of a 40,000lb engine sideways and keep it from being damaged on a tall curb, after it popped cables trying to go up one of these hills even as conditions were improving.

All of this makes me look at traction devices a little differently.

 

[MrMikeyG]

I'm jumping in from the 80 section. I too have always thought of chains as a "just in case" item, but never think of getting any during the off-season when goodwill, etc have them littering the shelves. if you're the type to keep a lot of gear in your rig all of the time, I could see a slight weight savings with cables vs. chains but that's got to be a very minimal concern. If overall tire size remains the same for a few years on your vehicle, what's the life expectancy for "occasional use" chains?

 

[TheIcemanCometh]

Growing up in northern New England, I do however have a lot of experience with chains in general. No matter what style you settle on, I strongly recommend using the rubber tensioners (and carry a spare set of tensioners, just in case). Chains can shift and loosen during use. The rubber tensioners can assure a tight fit when this happens.

When needed I have run real chains as I have seen many of issue with cables. Mostly one can not get cables as tight as needed. With chains one can really reef on them so to assure they tight. Regarding rubber tensioners get second set and use them at the same time, that is double them up. If one breaks while traveling the other is doing its job.

 

[doru]

I'm jumping in from the 80 section. I too have always thought of chains as a "just in case" item, but never think of getting any during the off-season when goodwill, etc have them littering the shelves. if you're the type to keep a lot of gear in your rig all of the time, I could see a slight weight savings with cables vs. chains but that's got to be a very minimal concern. If overall tire size remains the same for a few years on your vehicle, what's the life expectancy for "occasional use" chains?

The life depends on a few variables even with "occasional use"...
I have cables that have lasted 26+ years with occasional use or a few times every winter. Yes, some of the barrels on the cable are now missing but that does not stops the cables to still be useful. Despite what others are saying cables are good and long lasting as long as you get quality cables, they are the right fit for your tires, you install and adjust them properly, you do not abuse them (e.g. use them when they are not needed, spin/over-rev them, drive at higher speed than they are designed for, etc.), and you maintain them (dry them after every use and lube them at end of season).
P.S. maybe the quality of the cables these days is not what it used to be with today's China manufacturing and the race to the bottom on pricing.