The P0441 Thread

[paulunm]

Are you all seeing these codes hearing a gurgling at shut off when hot? I haven't had the P0441 code for a year or so, but have gurgling/bubbling sounds when I initially turn off the truck when it's really hot (Las Vegas). About 50% of the time I do get some fuel smell in the garage.

Never replaced any parts, tempted to throw a gas cap at it. But I assume my canister is full of fuel?

 

[CharlieS]

I don't experience that, but you are in a much hotter environment than I am, so I don't think that is helpful.

Side note, we drove through the desert going past las vegas on a road trip a few years ago and the outside temp showed 116 degrees. We were wondering out loud who could survive in that climate.

 

[linuxgod]

New VCV's didn't help either, though I'm not entirely surprised, but I figured it was worth the $100 to swap them before going down the canister route.

Then I thought to myself "I wonder if there's any warranty?" So I called the dealer since they did the canister last October (when I was pressed for time) and they said it has a 12 month, unlimited mileage warranty. Dropped off the truck today and they just called to say when they removed the hoses water came out of the canister. We did hit a few muddy and wet crossings in Moab but they weren't *that* deep or for *that* long so it's odd to me that I'd have issues but nobody else would after those.

If the dealer refuses to swap it under warranty I'll likely order one from Serra on the next sale. However it leaves me pondering how to prevent the filter inlet from sucking in water in the future. Anyone have ideas how/where to relocate just the filter mechanism? @grinchy how has your canister been after relocating it to the engine bay... (that doesn't seem like it would be any higher or better protected necessary though)

 

[LvCruiserNewb]

Anybody know how many miles/cycles it takes to clear a permanent P0441 code? I had 2 instances of the CEL with only a P0441 code last weekend in Utah. Cleared both times and have driven over 600 miles and many starts since last clearing it and the permanent P0441 still resides. I scan every time I drive and haven't had any further current codes and dont think any pending either so I have no idea why the permanent one remains. I suppose I'll get the techstream laptop out and try to run the active tests, but the evap monitors I brought up on my OBD fusion seem to indicate the VSV is cycling properly. I have no idea what the expected flow is at any condition but when the VSV goes from off to on you see the actual purge flow go from 0 to some positive number. I will say I have boiled gas at least a couple times since last canister replacement so maybe its shot again.

 

[GrouchyTech]

Anybody know how many miles/cycles it takes to clear a permanent P0441 code? I had 2 instances of the CEL with only a P0441 code last weekend in Utah. Cleared both times and have driven over 600 miles and many starts since last clearing it and the permanent P0441 still resides. I scan every time I drive and haven't had any further current codes and dont think any pending either so I have no idea why the permanent one remains. I suppose I'll get the techstream laptop out and try to run the active tests, but the evap monitors I brought up on my OBD fusion seem to indicate the VSV is cycling properly. I have no idea what the expected flow is at any condition but when the VSV goes from off to on you see the actual purge flow go from 0 to some positive number. I will say I have boiled gas at least a couple times since last canister replacement so maybe its shot again.

P0441 generally takes a long time. The EVAP monitor has to run and complete, and that can take quite a while because very specific conditions have to be met.

Use Techstream, go to Engine ECM, utility, enable all readiness. Type in P0441 (select the “P” from dropdown menu) and check the judgement result.

If it’s not ready, you can run the EVAP utility. Takes 20-ish minutes and, if the system is operating correctly, will run the monitor and take care of removing the permanent status.

 

[LvCruiserNewb]

P0441 generally takes a long time. The EVAP monitor has to run and complete, and that can take quite a while because very specific conditions have to be met.

Use Techstream, go to Engine ECM, utility, enable all readiness. Type in P0441 (select the “P” from dropdown menu) and check the judgement result.

If it’s not ready, you can run the EVAP utility. Takes 20-ish minutes and, if the system is operating correctly, will run the monitor and take care of removing the permanent status.

Very cool. Thanks for the info. I presume the truck is supposed to be idling during the test? I think techstream would tell you the entry conditions on a pop-up window when you select the test like it does before running the AC servo reset but I suppose I'll fire it up and find out.

 

[LvCruiserNewb]

Very cool. Thanks for the info. I presume the truck is supposed to be idling during the test? I think techstream would tell you the entry conditions on a pop-up window when you select the test like it does before running the AC servo reset but I suppose I'll fire it up and find out.

Techstream status says the evap monitor hasn't been run. Went to run it and said fuel temp needs to be below 95F. I live in Las Vegas and my truck is parked outside in full sun all day. I'll check back around late September to see if the evap monitor ran on its own by then haha.

 

[GrouchyTech]

Techstream status says the evap monitor hasn't been run. Went to run it and said fuel temp needs to be below 95F. I live in Las Vegas and my truck is parked outside in full sun all day. I'll check back around late September to see if the evap monitor ran on its own by then haha.

Next time you fill up do it from empty. That fresh tank will be fairly cold for a little while, so you could run the test then. Maybe just pull off to the side at the gas station.

 

[linuxgod]

New VCV's didn't help either, though I'm not entirely surprised, but I figured it was worth the $100 to swap them before going down the canister route.

Then I thought to myself "I wonder if there's any warranty?" So I called the dealer since they did the canister last October (when I was pressed for time) and they said it has a 12 month, unlimited mileage warranty. Dropped off the truck today and they just called to say when they removed the hoses water came out of the canister. We did hit a few muddy and wet crossings in Moab but they weren't *that* deep or for *that* long so it's odd to me that I'd have issues but nobody else would after those.

If the dealer refuses to swap it under warranty I'll likely order one from Serra on the next sale. However it leaves me pondering how to prevent the filter inlet from sucking in water in the future. Anyone have ideas how/where to relocate just the filter mechanism? @grinchy how has your canister been after relocating it to the engine bay... (that doesn't seem like it would be any higher or better protected necessary though)

I ended up buying a used canister off ebay from a 2008 LX with supposedly 75k miles that had been wrecked in the front. Swapped it yesterday morning and after two ~45 min drives with several hours parked in between this morning all the permanent codes are gone.

Out of curiosity I'm going to dismantle the old canister and see if I can better understand what precisely is failing and why. Mine was <1 year old but supposedly had water in it. But it's a sealed system and the dealer smoke tested so if there's water getting in I want to understand how.

 

[gasman4u]

I ended up buying a used canister off ebay from a 2008 LX with supposedly 75k miles that had been wrecked in the front. Swapped it yesterday morning and after two ~45 min drives with several hours parked in between this morning all the permanent codes are gone.

Out of curiosity I'm going to dismantle the old canister and see if I can better understand what precisely is failing and why. Mine was <1 year old but supposedly had water in it. But it's a sealed system and the dealer smoke tested so if there's water getting in I want to understand how.

You should use a torch to get in there. Really tempt fate.

Seriously, if you can post pics as I’m interested in the workings of this thing.