Ok, so weird thing happened over at the LC200 tech forum. Romero—whose forum tagline is “New Toys Are Exciting”— apparently didn’t think the upcoming Ascent was going to be exciting enough, and closed that thread, after it had been open for less than a day, and generated a really good discussion, with folks contributing schematics, talking apples/apples & apples/oranges. With healthy disagreement. That’s weird. And disrespectful. Totally shuts down conversation instead of pushing the questions deeper. So, here we are in a general tech forum, Romero — let’s see how this one is moderated. Earlier post asked legit questions about anticipated capabilities of a soon-to-launch “largest ever” Subaru versus the real-world known quantity we know and love as the Land Cruiser 200, in concrete technical terms. Anyone who’s driven a Subie as a “winter rat” in Maine or Alaska, or off-road Colorado or Baja, knows that Subaru makes a hell of a capable machine. For a relatively low-clearance rig, the undercarriage is well-protected, so that a typical Subaru experience is really less about wondering about capability and more about wheel placement, maneuvering around impassable obstacles, and just enjoying the ride. For instance, we have no idea what the underbody protection/armor on the Ascent is going to be because we haven’t seen a single photo of the engine bay, suspension, underbody, etc. — nor any serious cutaways. The hope/expectation is that the Ascent breaks new ground in underbody protection — and maybe even has “slider-like” or slider-strength bottom support. That’s not an unreasonable thing to expect from a 2018 Subaru knowing the limits to which Subaru owners push their rigs. And it’s a totally reasonable thing to expect from Toyota for its über-capable apex off-roader. Not as a TRD after-thought, or as a wish-list item, but as a legit customer demand. That’s a tech matter deserving of serious 200-tech discussion. So too with a relatively easy bolt-on (1) LC Supercharger and/or Turbo and/or Turbos for the 5.7 like the Tundra’s supercharger. So too for a (2) factory aux fuel tank, so that folks don’t have to scrounge around online for “grey market” imports. So too with a basic (3) rubber cargo liner for a five-seat LC200 with third row delete; (4) push-button airbag disable. Toyota makes these and many other goodies for other markets but good luck finding one in the States. The time writing on forums like this isn’t just venting. It’s also research and organizing thoughts/documenting need areas. The intended audience is as much internal Toyota managers and aftermarket parts suppliers who hopefully see a market niche and step up to cover it. Anyone who has dealt with multiple Toyota parts departments trying to special order a TOYOTA OEM part like a cargo mat or aux fuel components that aren’t made for the US-market can relate to this. That then translates to the need for modding/fabbing, which brings folks back to forums like this, which then takes time and energy. We’ve all been in this boat as we’re trying to stretch the limits of our rigs. If you’re happy with your builds then I’m jazzed for you, and y’all ought to be out there enjoying the heck out of them, instead of shutting down discussions. I want to see if I can squeeze more capability out of mine, and I know other folks on here have done really radical things to get where they want to be, including awesome diesel conversions, and so on. There are a ton of naysayers, but someone who embraces opportunities to question our assumptions about the capabilities of our rigs (and the launch of the Ascent is that opportunity as much as the launch of the FJ cruiser was) — that contributor isn’t a troll. That contributor adds value. If you can’t see the value, stop reading. If you want more value/utility, demand it. If you shut down that value, it will go elsewhere. So just simmer down and let these threads generate discussion. That’s the whole point. What’re the tech/utility/offers/innovations that the Ascent is bringing? And how can these innovations be used to push the 200 further? These are the core questions here, and that’s why this belongs in a 200-tech forum. The non-tech chatter and subjective impressions about the Subaru versus Cruiser ARE very valuable as well, especially as the feedback relates to real-world observed performance on trails and in the backcountry. That’s not trolling; that’s gathering received wisdom. If you think this type of discussion doesn’t belong in a current-series tech forum then what the moderators ought to do is rename this forum from ih8mud to “I❤️LC” — with cute t-shirts to match. If you’re a serious mud-hater, then you want to have this conversation, as uncomfortable as it makes your body-on-frame worldview. The LC200 is awesome, yes, heartsies, heartsies, but it has a TON of room for improvement — which is basically 90% of the reason why ih8mud exists. The launch of the Ascent, like the 2020s launch of the Tesla pickup, are valuable opportunities for serious critical introspection, allowing us to tell Toyota, “Hey, if Subaru could pull X off in a rig that’s 1/2 or 1/3 of the price of an LC200, then you need to match or exceed.” Self-congratulatory back-slapping about the unmatchable “just perfect” Land Cruiser 200 isn’t mud hatin’ — it’s the definition of being stuck. So let’s have a healthy Ascent v. LC200 conversation in terms of how to improve and push the limits on both.