Some RealTime Starter Questions

[turbocruiser]

Hi folks a few questions if you would please pardon...

When replacing the starter contacts and starter contacts' plunger piece ...

1. Are you supposed to press fit the copper bolt and copper contact first trying to square the two together or do those get more properly pulled together by tightening the nut when that whole assembly is assembled together and squared by sight within the starter housing itself?

2. I've read and read the FSM and simply cannot comprehend what it is trying to say with the "up / down" and "long / short" description on the orientation of the square plastic piece that penentrates the housing. That piece in the kit that I got from good-ole-dan seems to be almost square with the hole almost center - now that's after three rum and cokes but the FSM makes that piece look rectangular with the hole off center?

3. Are you really supposed to squeze the contacts down with the wood in a vice? Cantcha just push them down with the wood by hand and have everything more or less square to the plunger? Any tricks to doing this or is the implicit way to do this to use the wood with vice method as the FSM describes?

4. What, if anything at all, do you all grease upon reassembly??? The plunger, the spring, the starter gear, the flywheel gear ... does anything at all get the grease and if so what grease is good?

Thanks folks, I appreciate it.

 

[tarbe]

I believe they say to use a vise, because they do not trust that the average fellow can keep things square while tightening the contact down. Just remember that the contact surfaces need to be square with the contact surface of the plunger...doesn't matter how you accomplish that. Some guys actually have a custom carved piece of wood in their tool box just for this job...I know elmariachi does. I just strong-armed mine..working great for 20,000 miles, ymmv.

I didn't add any grease...the plunger rod/spring already had grease.

I can'remember anything about the square/centered vs rectangular/off-center and I am too laze at 0725 on a Sunday to go out in the garage and look

 

[turbocruiser]

Thanks Tim, yes the FSM makes much mention of the plastic pieces that penetrate the housing but I honestly cannot see anything about them other then square, even now that I'm more sober!!! The other strange thing is that my old plastic pieces had two tabs on the outside edges that sorta folded over for the copper bolt and copper contact, the new plastic pieces are flat on that side. I'm still too confused to slap it all back together like this. Any other thoughts out there??? Thanks.

 

[turbocruiser]

Hi folks a few questions if you would please pardon...

When replacing the starter contacts and starter contacts' plunger piece ...

1. Are you supposed to press fit the copper bolt and copper contact first trying to square the two together or do those get more properly pulled together by tightening the nut when that whole assembly is assembled together and squared by sight within the starter housing itself?

2. I've read and read the FSM and simply cannot comprehend what it is trying to say with the "up / down" and "long / short" description on the orientation of the square plastic piece that penentrates the housing. That piece in the kit that I got from good-ole-dan seems to be almost square with the hole almost center - now that's after three rum and cokes but the FSM makes that piece look rectangular with the hole off center?

3. Are you really supposed to squeze the contacts down with the wood in a vice? Cantcha just push them down with the wood by hand and have everything more or less square to the plunger? Any tricks to doing this or is the implicit way to do this to use the wood with vice method as the FSM describes?

4. What, if anything at all, do you all grease upon reassembly??? The plunger, the spring, the starter gear, the flywheel gear ... does anything at all get the grease and if so what grease is good?

Thanks folks, I appreciate it.

Allow myself to answer myself

1. In my opinion it is better to assemble everything loosely and then tighten down while watching that things stay centered; since the starter contacts are slotted on the side that the bolt goes through, if you tried to press fit them together first you'd probably be off of wherever that bolt must go to allow the contact to sit flat and to allow the thing to tighten down flat to the plunger.

2. The only thing I can conclude here is there must be a part redesign because for the life of me, whether sober or not, I could not figure out the "up - down" and "long - short" descriptions that the FSM refers to.

3. I started off skeptical but I understand how helpful a press and a flat piece of wood would be for this PM. It is possible to do this by hand but its sorta a matter of luck til you do it without seeing some slant in the contact and then just cause you can't see it doesn't mean that the contact is really flat. So, this is what works without a press - take a large bench vise and squeeze the contacts horizontally - it is possible you will find a position - you must have an eight inch or larger vise - use a really large socket for the gear end of the starter and a smaller socket holding down as much as possible of the two contacts - line everything up as level as possible, put one wrist's strength on the vise, then while the two sockets hold everything tight put the twelve pounds torque on the contact nuts.

4. After alotta reading here and on other sites I decided not to add too much grease. I put about a finger tip spot size of grease on the new plungers shaft and on the spring and spread it all out really thin and really evenly but I did not go crazy with this at all and I did not add any grease to the starter gear either. I hope those two decisions were the right ones.

 

[landtank]

generally in my experience greasing a solenoid plunger is a mistake.

 

[turbocruiser]

generally in my experience greasing a solenoid plunger is a mistake.

Can you elaborate and explain? There already was grease there so I was just wanting to return to 'normal' whilst replacing the plunger and reusing the spring? Is it a fire risk or something? Think I should remove and redo??? Thanks.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I also put minimal grease on the plunger and spring. Synthetic, of course....heh. I think if too much grease was used, there's a chance the grease could inhibit fast movement of the plunger due to sealing the clearance between the plunger shaft and it's bushing. Kind of a hydraulic-ing effect. Likely this would dissipate in a couple dozens starts.

Dunno what your thoughts are, Rick. Maybe too much grease could get knocked around in there and end up on the contacts?

DougM

 

[landtank]

In the equipment that I've serviced over the years, solenoids are a very common device. While I've had a couple fail, the overwhelming majority of problems is do to the plunger binding in the barrel. Grease and even oil from a previous serviceing is usually the culprit.

This is the 1 place where I do use a solvent to ensure that both the barrel and plunger are clean. The plunger operates within a magnetic field and no lubrication is needed and in my experience wanted.

 

[landtank]

Dunno what your thoughts are, Rick. Maybe too much grease could get knocked around in there and end up on the contacts?

What I see is the heat will cause the grease to thicken or collect some dirt and bind up the plunger.

I've seen this on all sizes of solenoids. Your instinct, as well as mine once, is to lubricate it to work easier. But in my experience that leads to issues down the road.

 

[turbocruiser]

What I see is the heat will cause the grease to thicken or collect some dirt and bind up the plunger.

I've seen this on all sizes of solenoids. Your instinct, as well as mine once, is to lubricate it to work easier. But in my experience that leads to issues down the road.

Interesting. I guess what would "settle" this for me is does the factory smear a small amount of grease on at assembly? The amount I added was really negligible and only intended to replace what was there originally. As long as there is no fire risk I think I'll leave it as is and as was BUT if I do experience any problems from this I'll be the first to post back. I can imagine what you were saying though LT.