Snap ring? Or not?

[Rigger]

I have a few Land Cruisers, so I know a bit about the front axles on them rigs.

My son has an '85 Toyota 4x4 pickup (solid front axle). We began a front axle rebuild on it. I always thought that these front ends looked a lot like the Land Cruiser. I pulled the hub dials off. I expected to see a snap ring in there that needs to be removed before I can pull the hub body. No snap ring, just a bolt threaded into the end of the axle. I'm puzzled.

There is supposed to be a snap ring there, isn't there?

[Alright, alright, I'll go get a pic and post it.]

 

[NorCalBorn]

HA!! SO I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE NOTICING THIS!!

I'm not crazy!!

LOL..we had a whole debate about this bit once recently. I think the final consensus was the IFS rigs have them (You do mean the one that goes over the internally toothed-washer? As in referencing the pic below part#'s 43410/20?*) In other words, don't feel alone here if you decide to put them on to control the free play on the "STUB" shaft. Just be sure to use the right size toothed washer. Me, I use them either way because it reduces the tolerance down enough to prevent "walking" of the stub shaft in and out wearing down on the toothed brass thrust washer on the backside of the spindle which is a common wear point as the shaft interface tolerance changes under acceleration, articulation, and deceleration.

*The internally toothed washer(s), 3 sizes in all that are factory spec sized shims come as separate pieces these days.) and SFA's don't.

Pic attached for reference.

 

[Rigger]

Here is a pic.

The bolt in my hand was threaded into the end of the axle shaft.

There is no snap ring in that groove at the end of the axle shaft. My Cruisers all have snap rings.

 

[Rigger]

Thanks NorCal. (great pic!).

I'm not too far in, and it is not an IFS truck.

I am talking about the snap ring right behind the hub dial. On a Cruiser, you have to remove the ring to get the hub body off.

 

[missouriman]

re-check your lock out hubs.
I bet they are ifs lock outs. you can't get the snap ring on.
so you use a bolt and washer instead.

if I am wrong and you can see the snap ring slot I would put the snap ring back on.

 

[cruiser88]

solid axle should have one

 

[cruiser88]

everything on my 84 was transplanted off my 62 minus the birfs

 

[Rigger]

re-check your lock out hubs.
I bet they are ifs lock outs. you can't get the snap ring on.
so you use a bolt and washer instead.

if I am wrong and you can see the snap ring slot I would put the snap ring back on.

I have some spare snap rings and will try to use them. What puzzles me is that I can't see how the bolt holds anything on.

 

[Rigger]

solid axle should have one

This was my understanding. That's why it surprised me to see no snap ring.

I will post pics of the re-assembly.

 

[missouriman]

my understanding is that they just keep the axle from moving to far in.
the ifs hub body is thicker the way it is made. you use the lock ring or gear from the 85.

take some pictures!!

 

[missouriman]

har,, found it.

this is the page I was going from.

Aisin locking hub tech: Interchangeability, and converting Samurai lockouts to Toyota - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

IFS trucks have a snap ring under the hub, and the bolt in the end of the shaft inside the locking hub. Solid axles just have the outer snap ring.... (Off the top of my head...)

 

[Chop Shop]

You cant put an ifs hub on a solid axle. Even if you swap the gear that has a different spline count it will not engage/grap the same amount of meat and break.

If you have all ifs parts in the hub there is NO way it will bolt onto a str8 axle.

three options here.

1 Someone put WARN hubs on it and they came wiht the washer and bolt instead of the snapring.

2 Some rookie thought " I hate snaprings and my ifs had them kool washers before I did my SAS, Ill go get the washers out of my IFS hubs and put htme on my straight axle hubs".

3 It mostly comes from lazy cheap guys that wont pony up for longs and have 10 spare stock birfs and want to change them the "camo" way by pulling the felts and the whole knuckle leaving the wheel bearings intact. That way they dont have to pull the hub dial and pull the snapring.

anyway ya cut it it lets the birf slide in and out and not keep it in the pivot axis of the kingpin/trunion and will eat it up faster than normal.

 

[Rigger]

The lockout hubs on this truck are Aisin brand; I know that.

The truck is an '85 with a solid front axle; I know that, too.

My best guess is that the axle was serviced some time way back when and whoever did the work did not put the snap rings back on. But why they put that bolt and washer on there is beyond me because it doesn't do anything.

 

[Chop Shop]

The lockout hubs on this truck are Aisin brand; I know that.

The truck is an '85 with a solid front axle; I know that, too.

My best guess is that the axle was serviced some time way back when and whoever did the work did not put the snap rings back on. But why they put that bolt and washer on there is beyond me because it doesn't do anything.

They might have seen one on a set of warns or on a IFS truck and thought it would be easier than a snapring not realizing it does nothing but allow harm to the birf and spindle bushing.

 

[Mace]

Aisin locking hub tech: Interchangeability, and converting Samurai lockouts to Toyota - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

You cant put an ifs hub on a solid axle. Even if you swap the gear that has a different spline count it will not engage/grap the same amount of meat and break.

??

Rigger, Make sure that the hubs you have are not the long body aisin's that work with the older disk brake cruisers (doubtfull but..)

If they are, sell those puppies on here for a tidy profit, get some sammy/IFS hubs and get the long transition hub gear.

 

[Chop Shop]

??

Rigger, Make sure that the hubs you have are not the long body aisin's that work with the older disk brake cruisers (doubtfull but..)

If they are, sell those puppies on here for a tidy profit, get some sammy/IFS hubs and get the long transition hub gear.

I meant ya cant do it properly if using only oem hub gears. The solid axle ones will fit in the ifs hub and work, but wont have full engagment.

With Bobbys conversion gear and ifs hub is a great choice for a sold axle then.

I just didnt under stand why ya quoted me? maybe that would help with what I was saying before?

 

[Mace]

I meant ya cant do it properly if using only oem hub gears. The solid axle ones will fit in the ifs hub and work, but wont have full engagment.

With Bobbys conversion gear and ifs hub is a great choice for a sold axle then.

I just didnt under stand why ya quoted me? maybe that would help with what I was saying before?

But the actual hub castings are all identical (straight axle, mini and samurai as well apparently). So just by taking the stock guts out of a solid axle hub and stuffing them into a IFS casting it'll work. Or am I missing something?

 

[Chop Shop]

But the actual hub castings are all identical (straight axle, mini and samurai as well apparently). So just by taking the stock guts out of a solid axle hub and stuffing them into a IFS casting it'll work. Or am I missing something?

I have all three of those hubs and the ifs bodies are different.

If what you are saying was correct then Bobby would not offer a conversion gears for ifs hubs. You would just use Bobs normal str8 axle hub gear and put them in an ifs right? nadda.

Look at the guys pics. he says all three bodies look the same, yes in diameter, engage notches and mounting, and height.

Then he is slick and only compares the solid axle and sami hubs when changing guts.

Then he shows the IFS hub all by itself with a Long conversion gear in it. look close a that pic and you will notice th back side of the body is machined deeper that the others. Bobbys gear is offset to compensate for this.

As I said earlier if you put oem solid axle gears in a ifs body it will not mesh/engage all the way and puke eventually.

If you cant/dont see it in the pics then I can dig my buckets of hubs out and show you the difference.

 

[Chop Shop]

Or am I missing something?

This is the internet at work here.

Put all three in your hand and make decisions.

Put all three on your screen and make assumptions.