Should I buy?

[Furious E]

Hi guys, I'm brand spankin new to MUD, and really off roading in general, but have spent quite a bit of time here the past couple days. I've been looking for some kind of 4wd rig to stand in for my 4th gen Camaro as a daily driver during the winter months, and also maybe do some light wheeling, people hauling, dog hauling, ect throughout the rest of the year as well. FJ80s had sort of been on the periphery of my search until one popped up locally at what I thought was a good price this past weekend.

Before I get into specifics with the vehicle I am looking at, let me just set the tone on what I am looking for and what my intentions are. While I do not intend to neglect or abuse this vehicle in any undue way, I also have no intentions of going overboard on OCD PM stuff like some of you seem to. I am looking to minimize my cost of ownership to the greatest extent possible, meaning PM that is likely to save greater expenditures down the road will get done, otherwise if it ain't broke, it ain't getting fixed. What attracts me to these trucks is the sheer ruggedness and over the top build quality in a sensible and comfortable package. I think that, maintained just the right amount, true cost of ownership of an FJ could actually be lesser than many of the other trucks I have been considering (mostly 3rd gen 4runners and 1st gen Tacos) once purchase price and depreciation factor in.

Anyways, here are my thoughts on the rig being considered after my test drive last night, copied from a post I made on another forum....

Pretty clean on the outside and underneath, very little rust at all underneath and none on the body. Paint is in pretty good shape, appears to be garage kept currently and looks to have been for much of its past life as well. Apparently it leaks a bit at the base of the windshield.

Interior wasn't the cleanest, the guy obviously hauls kids with it. Third row seat is cloth, first and second rows are leather. The cloth looks to have been origional, since it matches the doors, but the leather seems to be in quite good shape, just ditry under the seat covers. Cold air, hot heat. Stereo seems to function. Buttons to make he antenna go up and down (yes it has that) don't work.

Front tires are ok, rears need replaced (is that an issue with full time 4wd?) Brakes are new and feel surprisingly strong. Radiator was recently replaced due to an overheating issue, says he didn't drive it while it was hot. Headgasket checks out ok. Leaks oil, looks to be towards the rear of the pan. Sounds like it has a bit of an exhaust leak from the manifold gasket. Has a bit of valve noise. Check engine light is on, apparently Autozone told him it was the gas cap but that didn't fix it.

Not sure if it's just oil blowing back from the leak or Trans fluid (looked more like oil), but the bottom of the Trans was a bit damp. I think the front axle seals were leaking. Low range works. It does not have lockers, unfortunately.

Drives impressively well for the milage, no shakes or shimmies. Slow, but that's to be expected. Trans shifted smooth at anything but full throttle, where it was just a bit abrupt. It was kind of fun in to drive, in that it just feels invincible. Build quality on these is unbeleiveable, rivals any thing I've ever been around, including several older Mercedes.

I'm still undecided. It doesn't appear to have been the best maintained example, but it's not the worst either and the shell is actually very clean. I think I could talk the asking price down to at least 2500, which would leave room to take care of he obvious needs. I left without making an offer, but told him I was interested and let him know one way or another by Thursday.

So does anything here scare you guys away?

 

[IronCladLou]

It sounds like it needs lots of minor things, but I would be willing to put up with a lot for $2500.

I'd be interested to find out what the CEL code actually is...

 

[Furious E]

It sounds like it needs lots of minor things, but I would be willing to put up with a lot for $2500.

I'd be interested to find out what the CEL code actually is...

That's kind of my thinking as well, however I don't want it to nickel and dime me to death either.

I had my OBD II scan tool with me last night, however I realized as I was getting it out of the car that the truck is OBD I being a 95. Crap! I do know that codes applying to the evap system can often pop up from gas cap issues, so maybe that's it? I have no idea what the emissions controls are like on these trucks.

 

[BILT4ME]

Most of the 95's on these are OBDII compatible, even though the mandate was for 96.

If it's a 95, and it runs like that and drives well, BUY IT. If you fiddle fart around someone else will buy out from under you.

Odds are you will need to throw about $2000 of PM at it if you do the work yourself. That would be smart to get it base lined and make sure all critical components on this 20 year old truck is up to par. Assume the shop that did the work did it wrong, because that is typically the case.

Good luck!

Buy it and join the addiction!

Oh, and read the COST OF OWNERSHIP in the FAQ sticky thread. That is an eye opener for those that want to see what it costs to maintain these trucks. Even though many claim to NOT be OCD, they are in their own way.

 

[120mm]

Based on your first post, I'd assume you are not a real good candidate for series 80 ownership.

 

[Furious E]

Most of the 95's on these are OBDII compatible, even though the mandate was for 96.

If it's a 95, and it runs like that and drives well, BUY IT. If you fiddle fart around someone else will buy out from under you.

Odds are you will need to throw about $2000 of PM at it if you do the work yourself. That would be smart to get it base lined and make sure all critical components on this 20 year old truck is up to par. Assume the shop that did the work did it wrong, because that is typically the case.

Good luck!

Buy it and join the addiction!

Oh, and read the COST OF OWNERSHIP in the FAQ sticky thread. That is an eye opener for those that want to see what it costs to maintain these trucks. Even though many claim to NOT be OCD, they are in their own way.

Hmm, wish I would have known that about the OBD compliance, I didn't even bother to look for the port. Don't think the CEL is a big deal, however, since my area just requires a visual inspection for emissions on OBD I.

As far as PM, here is what I am accounting for doing pretty much right away:

2 tires - $350
Front axel rebuild - $250
Have a glass shop replace the windshield gasket - $200 (guessing here, have to call for some quotes)
Change all fluids - $200
Misc tune-up stuff/replace rotten looking hoses (plugs and wires were recently replaced)- $200

What am I missing here?

That's about $1200 by my count, which I am basically factoring into my purchase price. I don't think that's too bad at all, especially compared to the BMWs and Volvos I have owned previously. I think that will add at least that much in value to the rig as well, which I think is the point that may be missed here. So am I nuts or what?

 

[BILT4ME]

Buy it. Work on it. Report back. If you can get it for $2500 and it runs and drives, it's a smokin deal.. Where is it? Maybe I'll call.

 

[Furious E]

Buy it. Work on it. Report back. If you can get it for $2500 and it runs and drives, it's a smokin deal.. Where is it? Maybe I'll call.

I'll let you know if I decide to pass. For now, that information remains classified

 

[musthave]

Anxious to hear what you do. Sounds like a buy to me.

 

[musthave]

I'll let you know if I decide to pass. For now, that information remains classified

WTH? Classified? This is MUD, nothing is classified except the reason behind overheating and something else, but not this.

 

[808wheeler]

I am looking to get an 80 series as well, but as far as lower cost to maintain than a 1st gen Hilux 4x4, no. You are talking about 10 years of extra tech, 2 extra cylinders as well as electronics and a complex (yet rugged) 4-wheel system. Sure the costs will not be that much higher but they will be higher.

With that said, if $2500 is a low price but it does sound like it needs some serious attention. But at the end of the day, the FJ80 is a way better truck than the 1st Gen 4x4 HiLux.

 

[LS1FJ40]

I still don't understand why people say 80s are expensive to maintain. I just calculated the total cost of ownership for my 80 since I purchased it in 1992. Total cost is just over $69,000 including purchase price. This includes cost of maintaining the vehicle. It does not include gas and insurance. Divide that $69k by 281 months (length of time I've owned my 80) and it equals about $245/month. I don't think that is bad at all. Keep in mind this includes some unnecessary mods (stereo, lift, tint) but doesn't include when I went through 4 BFG All Terrains in the course of one weekend...

If you told me I could go out tomorrow and buy a new 80 for $245/month I would ask you how many is the limit.

After you get through with the $1500-2000 to get it baselined the maintenance costs are not greater than an inferior vehicle.

 

[dogfishlake]

Buy it! And tumble down the rabbit hole, it's fun!

 

[LINUS]

I still don't understand why people say 80s are expensive to maintain. I just calculated the total cost of ownership for my 80 since I purchased it in 1992. Total cost is just over $69,000 including purchase price. This includes cost of maintaining the vehicle. It does not include gas and insurance. Divide that $69k by 281 months (length of time I've owned my 80) and it equals about $245/month. I don't think that is bad at all. Keep in mind this includes some unnecessary mods (stereo, lift, tint) but doesn't include when I went through 4 BFG All Terrains in the course of one weekend...

If you told me I could go out tomorrow and buy a new 80 for $245/month I would ask you how many is the limit.

After you get through with the $1500-2000 to get it baselined the maintenance costs are not greater than an inferior vehicle.

Bah! - You & your logic aren't welcome here!!! (despite my math being same as yours)

To OP, balance our O/C PM-work with neglect, you'll see it pays long term.
You'll find a certain level of PM greatly helps reliability & emergency repair bill$

Lies we repeat to dissuade others & protect our own:
80's are insane for maint $$$

Wherever any of us live is the most horrible place to live possible - please tell everyone.

 

[zona]

Hi guys, I'm brand spankin new to MUD, and really off roading in general, but have spent quite a bit of time here the past couple days. I've been looking for some kind of 4wd rig to stand in for my 4th gen Camaro as a daily driver during the winter months, and also maybe do some light wheeling, people hauling, dog hauling, ect throughout the rest of the year as well. FJ80s had sort of been on the periphery of my search until one popped up locally at what I thought was a good price this past weekend.

Before I get into specifics with the vehicle I am looking at, let me just set the tone on what I am looking for and what my intentions are. While I do not intend to neglect or abuse this vehicle in any undue way, I also have no intentions of going overboard on OCD PM stuff like some of you seem to. I am looking to minimize my cost of ownership to the greatest extent possible, meaning PM that is likely to save greater expenditures down the road will get done, otherwise if it ain't broke, it ain't getting fixed. What attracts me to these trucks is the sheer ruggedness and over the top build quality in a sensible and comfortable package. I think that, maintained just the right amount, true cost of ownership of an FJ could actually be lesser than many of the other trucks I have been considering (mostly 3rd gen 4runners and 1st gen Tacos) once purchase price and depreciation factor in.

Anyways, here are my thoughts on the rig being considered after my test drive last night, copied from a post I made on another forum....

Pretty clean on the outside and underneath, very little rust at all underneath and none on the body. Paint is in pretty good shape, appears to be garage kept currently and looks to have been for much of its past life as well. Apparently it leaks a bit at the base of the windshield.

Interior wasn't the cleanest, the guy obviously hauls kids with it. Third row seat is cloth, first and second rows are leather. The cloth looks to have been origional, since it matches the doors, but the leather seems to be in quite good shape, just ditry under the seat covers. Cold air, hot heat. Stereo seems to function. Buttons to make he antenna go up and down (yes it has that) don't work.

Front tires are ok, rears need replaced (is that an issue with full time 4wd?) Brakes are new and feel surprisingly strong. Radiator was recently replaced due to an overheating issue, says he didn't drive it while it was hot. Headgasket checks out ok. Leaks oil, looks to be towards the rear of the pan. Sounds like it has a bit of an exhaust leak from the manifold gasket. Has a bit of valve noise. Check engine light is on, apparently Autozone told him it was the gas cap but that didn't fix it.

Not sure if it's just oil blowing back from the leak or Trans fluid (looked more like oil), but the bottom of the Trans was a bit damp. I think the front axle seals were leaking. Low range works. It does not have lockers, unfortunately.

Drives impressively well for the milage, no shakes or shimmies. Slow, but that's to be expected. Trans shifted smooth at anything but full throttle, where it was just a bit abrupt. It was kind of fun in to drive, in that it just feels invincible. Build quality on these is unbeleiveable, rivals any thing I've ever been around, including several older Mercedes.

I'm still undecided. It doesn't appear to have been the best maintained example, but it's not the worst either and the shell is actually very clean. I think I could talk the asking price down to at least 2500, which would leave room to take care of he obvious needs. I left without making an offer, but told him I was interested and let him know one way or another by Thursday.

So does anything here scare you guys away?

Owning an 80 is similar to buying a sports car, there's maintenance and then there's performance. You're buying a reliable vehicle but to get it to it's intended performance level is going to mean dinero and time.

If you want it to chug along you can maintain it and hope nothing goes wrong, but that's just waiting for the inevitable crisis.

If you want it to perform you're going to spend $5,000 on this over the next 3yrs. That's a low number and anyone who has spent less than that on their rig during their 1st three years paid a lot more than $2,500.

Zona

 

[LS1FJ40]

Bah! - You & your logic aren't welcome here!!! (despite my math being same as yours)

To OP, balance our O/C PM-work with neglect, you'll see it pays long term.
You'll find a certain level of PM greatly helps reliability & emergency repair bill$

Lies we repeat to dissuade others & protect our own:
80's are insane for maint $$$

Wherever any of us live is the most horrible place to live possible - please tell everyone.

Correct! I chuckle every time I hear someone say 80s are expensive to maintain and own. I've owned MB, BMW, VW, Porshe, Dodge, Chevy and all were more expensive to maintain than my 80. And yes, I kept Life Cycle Cost on every vehicle I've ever owned. My 80 has been the lowest life cycle cost vehicle I've owned. Sure a major component of that is that its life expectancy is considerably longer than that of a Chevy Silverado or Dodge Ram. But I would argue that a G55 or M5 would have a comparable life expectancy but the parts for those are insane. And they break more often.

I like the part about where you live being the most horrible place to live in order to keep others away. Except that it is already established that Texas is the worst freaking place in the world! F#$% Texas! Right @NLXTACY?!?! Where's @LFD2037 to scream "Not this again...".

 

[LS1FJ40]

Owning an 80 is similar to buying a sports car, there's maintenance and then there's performance. You're buying a reliable vehicle but to get it to it's intended performance level is going to mean dinero and time.

If you want it to chug along you can maintain it and hope nothing goes wrong, but that's just waiting for the inevitable crisis.

If you want it to perform you're going to spend $5,000 on this over the next 3yrs. That's a low number and anyone who has spent less than that on their rig during their 1st three years paid a lot more than $2,500.

Zona

The first three years I owned my 80 I spent $450 on maintenance. Granted I bought it brand new...

 

[allan man]

It's just money BUY IT and welcome to the best land cruiser forum in the world

 

[120mm]

I've actually gone in the opposite direction. Anyone who comes on a forum to ask if they should buy an 80, lacks the courage to actually own one. That and the multiple mention of "nickel and dime to death" maintenance. The only people who say things like that are people who don't understand vehicle maintenance. For those reasons I think the OP should just go to a dealership, sign their life away on a 72 month lease on whatever will drain his pocket book and continue to be a consumer.

Does it show that I'm tired of all these insecure people coming on here, asking for advice about buying 80s and then ignoring it?

 

[Furious E]

I am looking to get an 80 series as well, but as far as lower cost to maintain than a 1st gen Hilux 4x4, no. You are talking about 10 years of extra tech, 2 extra cylinders as well as electronics and a complex (yet rugged) 4-wheel system. Sure the costs will not be that much higher but they will be higher.

With that said, if $2500 is a low price but it does sound like it needs some serious attention. But at the end of the day, the FJ80 is a way better truck than the 1st Gen 4x4 HiLux.

Sorry, by first gen Tacoma I meant the 95-04 generation since that was the first to use the name 'Tacoma'. Seems to be some conflicting use of the term in various corners of the internet.