Serious sludge found in overflow bottle
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- #24
semlin said:
could be but then it would be either straight carbon witch is ushually black or partially burnt hydrocarbon would would be gooey tar like especially in the presence of water or at least burn when lit.
I have smelled fuel in the radiator from a badly blown HG on a 1FZ, no such smell here wet, dried or when burnt.
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- #26
Rookie2 said:
A & C,
but this is the 21st century, jack material is in electronic form now.
B will come whenever I have sufficient time and money, oir if it blows witchever comes first
I wish we could figure out for sure what this stuff is,
but you know the sayign wish in one hand $kl7 in the other see witch fills up first.
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- #27
e9999 said:just give it to any chem geek at a nearby university and they'll run it though a spectrometer of some sort, and bang wham...!
that would be kick ass,
Know anybody? I don't,
I will mail it wheever it needs to go for that to happen.
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I hate to say it but to me it LOOKS, (really scientific statement huh), LOOKS like a combination of casting sand, some rust from wherever the casting sand was clumping and causing the underlying metal surface to rust and flake off, AND the Head Gasket material that swells up and shears off.
That to me points to poor quality control (like I wrote above, I hate to say it); if enough casting sand was left behind to clump, cause rust, cause blockages all around the cooling system, etc then that is cutting a corner pretty late in the process and shame on them.
That to me also points to the fact that even us wackos who do the HG strictly as a PM prolly should simply bite the bullet and get a new radiator as well or else perhaps one massive repository of this sludge will remain in the vehicle!
Strange thing is that everything I can see in my rad is sparkling clean but that foto from Slee makes it look like the majority of the sludge is deposited right after the main radiator inlet which I cannot really see. Carrraaap!!!
That to me points to poor quality control (like I wrote above, I hate to say it); if enough casting sand was left behind to clump, cause rust, cause blockages all around the cooling system, etc then that is cutting a corner pretty late in the process and shame on them.
That to me also points to the fact that even us wackos who do the HG strictly as a PM prolly should simply bite the bullet and get a new radiator as well or else perhaps one massive repository of this sludge will remain in the vehicle!
Strange thing is that everything I can see in my rad is sparkling clean but that foto from Slee makes it look like the majority of the sludge is deposited right after the main radiator inlet which I cannot really see. Carrraaap!!!
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- #30
the reddish color to this particular sample of the "grey" sludge does look a lot like iron oxide, our local soil "Georgia Red Clay"is an iron oxide stained clay and it looks a whole lot like it, but last time the stuff I found had a gray green cast to it, and the coolant was a mix of green and red. I think the color might be from the red dye in the coolant. If it is iron oxide that sucks,
This is the bags the last pile came out of, you can see even after adding water it still adds a pinkish hue to the water instead of the orange iron oxide would give. The more times it is exposed to fresh water the greyer it gets.
on the placement of funk in the radiator top we are in luck, look close and you can see the drain cock, water outlet and transmission lines all on the viewers side, the view of the radiator is from the engine side so the sludge is right under where the cap would be, it makes sense, that is the slowest flowing fluid in the top fo the radiator would be furthest from the radiator inlet, the fine stuff easily gets picked up by flowing water.
This is the bags the last pile came out of, you can see even after adding water it still adds a pinkish hue to the water instead of the orange iron oxide would give. The more times it is exposed to fresh water the greyer it gets.
on the placement of funk in the radiator top we are in luck, look close and you can see the drain cock, water outlet and transmission lines all on the viewers side, the view of the radiator is from the engine side so the sludge is right under where the cap would be, it makes sense, that is the slowest flowing fluid in the top fo the radiator would be furthest from the radiator inlet, the fine stuff easily gets picked up by flowing water.
well, I asked the 
in chief, who is a chemist, and apparently these lamea@@es chemists have not yet -after 300 years- figured out a machine that you put the thing in and it prints out "clay".... She was talking about elemental analysis and such nonsense... 
so it may not be quite as easy as plopping it in...
in chief, who is a chemist, and apparently these lamea@@es chemists have not yet -after 300 years- figured out a machine that you put the thing in and it prints out "clay".... She was talking about elemental analysis and such nonsense... so it may not be quite as easy as plopping it in...
RavenTai said:
you could give it to your local water company, they will assume it came out of the faucet and you're planning to sue them and they'll run a bunch of tests for free to predefend themselves....
Hey RT, snort some of that stuff up. With any luck you'll have a bad reaction to it and the local hospital will be able to identify it after a battery of blood tests.
Hmmm, do you still have any of the coolant from the flush? Sending the solid out for elemental analysis would get expensive without narrowing down the number of tests done. If you are looking for a lab pm me. Flame test was a good idea, I would guess sodium silicate hydrate from the coolant, but that is a wild guess. You could try calling a local CAT dealer/service center, I think they may do coolant analysis that should help keep cost down.
See the following link
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/cavitation,_scas_and_the_proper_maintenance_of_diesel_engine_cooling_systems.htm
Have you pressure checked the radiator cap? I wonder if there is air leaking into the system or air left from the flush in the 2nd heater core? Could this be a source for some slugde issues? I replaced my cap and noticed a small amount of sludge on the edges of the cap.
See the following link
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/cavitation,_scas_and_the_proper_maintenance_of_diesel_engine_cooling_systems.htm
Have you pressure checked the radiator cap? I wonder if there is air leaking into the system or air left from the flush in the 2nd heater core? Could this be a source for some slugde issues? I replaced my cap and noticed a small amount of sludge on the edges of the cap.
Interesting. I've never had much of anything collect in the overflow, only somewhat more than trace amounts. For the amount you pulled out of the overflow tank, I surprised you don't have more clogging your radiator core tubes. In your picture, looks like there is some buildup happening on the inner walls of the core tubes.
RT, I don't know how your temp guage has been measuring now that it's warmed up outside, but do you think this might have anything to do with why your engine temps seemed to be running a needle width or two higher than some of the others that did the temp gauge mod?
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Raven- interesting collection of sludge! Have you checked out the BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) Forums? They have a coolant analysis section there. I'd post up and see what people recommend as to where to send it, or just send it off for coolant analysis with a note that this is material from your coolant if you don't have any of the actual coolant mixed with sludge left. Keep us posted! 
RavenTai said:
Could be both - are you asking origin? I once, many years ago, filled an overheating Mercury with ditch water to get home (
). I doubt you have done that to your cruiser.I wonder if a bunch of silicates somehow precipitated out of your fluid over the years. That is a pile of stuff, though. It seems too much to be from the fluid. It sure looks like dirt. Have you run really high concentrations of coolant (say 70+%)?
How much of the history do you know?
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- #39
tarbe said:
I guess origin is what I am looking for. grey sludge is common in 1FZ’s, my question is what is it and where did it come from, weather is has always been there (casting sand) or is actively being made in the cooling system (corrosion byproduct, inhibitor precipitate, bong water theory etc) will determine what to do about it.
Toyota red does not contain silicates but the green that got mixed into mine by the PO’s mechanics does contain silicate, IIRC the sludge has shown up in vehicles know to use only Toyota red.
I have never run any more or less than 50/50 coolant and distilled water checked with a coolant tester.
I once, many years ago, filled an overheating Mercury with ditch water to get home (
I did fill a buddies Taco with stream water once at Telico, but cruiser has not seen such abuse.
I do not think the previous owners would do something like that, I am pretty sure she would not know how to put anything in the radiator, I never met the husband but he seams to take it to mechanics to be repaired,
I have a partial history
Production date is summer of 96,
The previous owners, a well to do couple with kids bought it on 10/22/97 for $46,432.02, 14,175 miles, I assume they are the second owners, no records before that
1/14/98 it passed emissions and had 17,719 miles,
3/12/98 it had 18K miles 15K service done at Lexus dealer, no coolant mentioned $500 visit.
11/19/98, oil change 28,978 miles “Q lube”
12/16/98 29,991 miles pads, rotors turned, Midas
On 6/2/99, a 30K service was done at a Lexus dealership, "016913 cooling system" was in the list of items but no specifics, there is a $14.34 charge for "Antifreeze Lexus". It is not clear if that was a coolant exchange or not, Total for that visit was almost 1,034.25 for a basic inspection. More pads
12/17/99 44,767 miles two 275/70 Michilin tires,
12/18/99 44,829 emissions & oil change “Jiffy lube”
8/29/00 it had 56,082 miles, pads and rotors installed at Midas
3/10/2001 emissions 63K miles,
10/18/2001 loan paid off.
3/15/03, 91551 miles, Midas, oil change, new front rotors, turned rear rotors, pads all around, $708.38
I bought it February of 2004 with 106K miles
I know there is some more undocumented work as the transmission had decent fluid in it and the battery alternator and starter had been replaced at about the same time (stuck contacts?) And the tires were new
. It had a mix of red and green in the radiator, looking at the records that could have been the original coolant with green top offs over the years. I flushed it changed the PHH and thermostat, filled with Toyota Red, distilled water, and a bottle of water wetter.
Last week 154K did the second cooling system service and found the above
alaskacruiser said:Raven- interesting collection of sludge! Have you checked out the BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) Forums? They have a coolant analysis section there. I'd post up and see what people recommend as to where to send it, or just send it off for coolant analysis with a note that this is material from your coolant if you don't have any of the actual coolant mixed with sludge left. Keep us posted!
I do not have any of the old coolant, I wish I had done a Ph test, might have shed some light.
I will post up over this up over there
Rookie2 said:
Possibly, it has been running about the same, middle or close to it at speed, raises at idle on hot days with the AC on. Sometimes in bad ATL traffic within a few needle widths of the bottom of red
Cattledog said:
I think I checked my cap when I had an opportunity last year but cannot remember for sure now, it looks original and the seals look to be in good condition, I need to place another order with Dan anyway, I will order a cap also.
Rich said:
That is all I had the first time was trace amounts, Riley said he had the same large amounts in the overflow on his second flush.
e9999 said:well, I asked the
So from two chemistry sources it sounds like getting this stuff tested will be expensive, I looked at Blackstones site, the do not list any tests that look applicable, funds are tight right now anyway.
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- #40
anybody know what the heater cores are made out of in the 95+ 80's?
from a past thread I see the 94 main core is copper/brass, not sure on the rear heat core of any year.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000634
from a past thread I see the 94 main core is copper/brass, not sure on the rear heat core of any year.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000634