Second Battery - Purpose, Experience? (2 Viewers)

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks! Good tip on batteries. I used the 110 in the back to charge my Mac. But now that I have the drawer in I need to sort out how I want to use it as it is somewhat blocked by the side panel fitment.

 

[Mogwai]

I agree with everything said, definitely to each is own and situational. For me personally, the biggest drawback from the simple "portable jump start" solution is based on a couple things guys have already mentioned - typical lead acid batteries don't like to be deeply drained and charged, and once they are deeply discharged they will degrade, slowly, but irreversibly. So at some point, it will die, and not take any sort of charge. Also noted on these forums is that the 200 WILL NOT run on alternator only, it does not produce enough power to run the truck alone. So... you can jump your truck and then what? Last thing I want to do is be out on a trip, have the truck die and then what, jump it and wonder if I shut it off if it'll be the last time it starts? When it's dead... it's dead. Simple peace of mind that we can continue our adventure uninterrupted is worth the extra few hundred dollars a dual-batt system costs. At a minimum I'd suggest upgrading to Group 31 AGM if you only want one battery, that way if you accidentally deeply discharge it a few times you know it's not going to die on you as quickly as lead-acid would, but it too... will get to a point where it's "bad" and needs to be replaced.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks! Good tip on batteries. I used the 110 in the back to charge my Mac. But now that I have the drawer in I need to sort out how I want to use it as it is somewhat blocked by the side panel fitment.

If you mean the ARB drawers interfering with the outlet... Here is my simple solution:

Here, you see the outlet edge. There is a plug in it...so it is active:

Here is same plug with the storage side cover removed. Note: I removed the useless outlet cover...and I leave this plug in at all times:

Here you see a similar cord. It has three outlets which makes it easy to use multiple low-draw devices (like chargers) that get power every time I drive.

I then run an additional short cord from there to the left of the 2nd row seat behind the driver in case a passenger needs to plug something smallish in.

Another thing worth mentioning...
On the left dash button group, there is a button which turns the AC outlet on or off. I leave in on so that it trickle charges batteries any time the engine runs. Lithium batteries like the 18650 and other do very well with this arrangement.

Oh... and I run another outlet letting it out here:

In my case, that carries high power from my inverter, but it could just as easily carry current from the built in outlet.

Seems like a lot plugging into that outlet, but happily, tons of small devices and chargers really draw very little juice. I've never run into an issue so long as you just pay attention to the demands of various devices.

Here is a shot of one of my two chargers in that same storage area. It is shown charging one 18650 and three RCR123 batteries. I simply used Velcro tape to secure it to the side of my large inverter that is mounted in the same space.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks! That "flat" plug is perfect. Do you happen to remember where you got it and/or what the brand is? I have a couple that are similar but they put the cord at an angle - the wrong angle. The cord on yours appears to drop straight down which is ideal for this arrangement.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I agree with everything said, definitely to each is own and situational. For me personally, the biggest drawback from the simple "portable jump start" solution is based on a couple things guys have already mentioned - typical lead acid batteries don't like to be deeply drained and charged, and once they are deeply discharged they will degrade, slowly, but irreversibly. So at some point, it will die, and not take any sort of charge. Also noted on these forums is that the 200 WILL NOT run on alternator only, it does not produce enough power to run the truck alone. So... you can jump your truck and then what? Last thing I want to do is be out on a trip, have the truck die and then what, jump it and wonder if I shut it off if it'll be the last time it starts? When it's dead... it's dead. Simple peace of mind that we can continue our adventure uninterrupted is worth the extra few hundred dollars a dual-batt system costs. At a minimum I'd suggest upgrading to Group 31 AGM if you only want one battery, that way if you accidentally deeply discharge it a few times you know it's not going to die on you as quickly as lead-acid would, but it too... will get to a point where it's "bad" and needs to be replaced.

Yea definitely agree that lead acid doesn't like to be below 30-40%. I would offer that it also losses voltage as it drops also. When testing I found that while a engine could not roll over because it had lost too much available voltage, the capacity left was around 30% (it's good having an aerospace electrical engineer friend)

Though I don't think the upgrade to a 31 group really worth bang for the buck unless the battery needed to be replaced anyway. The best AGM available 31 group has a capacity of 103 ah while a 27F has a capacity of 92 ah. Let's take that only 2/3 of that is usable so that gives you 6 ah extra. That's nothing to much to help out with for the replacing a good 27F.

Take the 31 group interstate that Slee uses for their primary battery upgrade. That battery is rated at 96 ah. A 27F by Northstar is rated at 92 ah. That's just not worth it.

I've been doing tons of research on lithium LiFePO4 batteries and that is what will work for me and my tastes. I like the idea of not caring about killing a battery down to 10% with a benefit of no voltage drop. In the interim, that's why I suggested a good USB external lithium battery pack. Cheap and easy.

But again, power and power management is so specific to individual needs. I'm just trying to offer other solutions in this sea of already great solutions.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks! That "flat" plug is perfect. Do you happen to remember where you got it and/or what the brand is? I have a couple that are similar but they put the cord at an angle - the wrong angle. The cord on yours appears to drop straight down which is ideal for this arrangement.

I think that one actually rotates to any angle you want, which is perfect if you wanted to rotate it for use above the platform.. I'll try to figure out where I got it...

 

[Markuson]

I think that one actually rotates to any angle you want, which is perfect if you wanted to rotate it for use above the platform.. I'll try to figure out where I got it...

Fount it! These are great, because they work as an initial plug...then you can plug whatever you need into them as far as a splitter, etc. All three of these rotate at the male end.

So...any cord with multiple outlets that you like, you simply plug that into these...one foot longer:

Ziotek ZT1212597 Black 360-Degree Rotating 18-Inch Power Strip Liberator, 3-Pack - Extension Cords - Amazon.com

 

[Mogwai]

Yeah honestly I never really thought about the value of 31 vs 27 but now that you mention it, apples to apples, using both Northstar AGMs as reference you get 10 more aH, as you mention, but for $15 more. So 10% more aH, for less than 5% more $$. I see that as a discount?

27 - $320
Capacity 20 Hour Rate 91 Ah
Capacity 10 Hour Rate 88 Ah

31 - $335
Capacity 20 Hour Rate 102 Ah
Capacity 10 Hour Rate 97 Ah

Grp 35 -$250
Capacity 20 Hour Rate 60 Ah
Capacity 10 Hour Rate 56 Ah

FWIW best source of Northstar I found is from GP Car Audio. Mike seems to be a good guy, chatted with him about warranty, etc... and reviews are good. Anyway. Prices above are from there.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Yeah honestly I never really thought about the value of 31 vs 27 but now that you mention it, apples to apples, using both Northstar AGMs as reference you get 10 more aH, as you mention, but for $15 more. So 10% more aH, for less than 5% more $$. I see that as a discount?

27 - $320
Capacity 20 Hour Rate 91 Ah
Capacity 10 Hour Rate 88 Ah

31 - $335
Capacity 20 Hour Rate 102 Ah
Capacity 10 Hour Rate 97 Ah

Grp 35 -$250
Capacity 20 Hour Rate 60 Ah
Capacity 10 Hour Rate 56 Ah

FWIW best source of Northstar I found is from GP Car Audio. Mike seems to be a good guy, chatted with him about warranty, etc... and reviews are good. Anyway. Prices above are from there.

Well, you have to also add in the extra $120 for the Slee mount.

Now, when my 27F dies out. Is $135 plus Slee shipping worth 6ah of additional power? Umm, yea know maybe. I would just like to have the additional posts that marine battery offers.

All I wanted to say was, I feel that upgrading to the 31 group while someone has a good 27F may not be the best use of money.

 

[Markuson]

Well, you have to also add in the extra $120 for the Slee mount.

Now, when my 27F dies out. Is $135 plus Slee shipping worth 6ah of additional power? Umm, yea know maybe. I would just like to have the additional posts that marine battery offers.

All I wanted to say was, I feel that upgrading to the 31 group while someone has a good 27F may not be the best use of money.

OK... Here's a counter:

Isn't that sort of like saying buying a dump truck may not be smart...if you already have a pickup?

-That all depends on what and how much you need to load and empty. If you can comfortably and reliably handle the workload with the Tacoma and not struggle to keep up? OK. Tacoma. Otherwise...match the tool to the task.

On the other hand...my OEM battery WAS failing when I replaced it with a type 31.

A lot of people end up running more than batteries were made to handle when they start adding powerful doodads like winches, fridges and etc. That's why dual batteries are a dealer option in Australia.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I think my first choice will be to upgrade my battery. But not until it has run a while longer. It has only been 6 months! So I'll wear it for another year or 18 months and then see what the upgrade options are. I think I'll avoid the 2 battery route for now as I do very little boondocking and if I do it will likely only be for a single night. Without a fridge or lockers I should be fine.

But this was a good thread with some good info which I'll hold on to! And I've already ordered the power cord things - thanks @Markuson!