Sandblasting at Home

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so I have looked around and harbor freight has this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=30972

and 2 50 pound bags are only 8.99 to ship, or I could pick it up locally at a HF, will these glass beads work well to strip the frame, body, bondo, etc? does anyone know if they are reusable? the starblast stuff looks good, but at $5 a pound it would cost me some $, with this stuff I can get 100 pounds for $70, anyone have any idea of how many pounds one should have on hand to blast a truck and frame? thanks for everyone's comments and help, it has been very useful.

Noah
 
sandblasting

Check with your local hardware store. Some places keep blasting media. I would think it will take more than two bags of sand/etc.

This may not be a good example, but I probably used 300-400 pounds of sand when I did the body and frame on mine. I shoveled it out of a bobcat bucket several times.

JR
 
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1973Guppie said:
I called the local napa and no luck, shipping the stuff is expensive, does home depot carry it? I bought some standard industrial blasting sand at HD, but sounds like this stuff would be much better, might have to stop by later tonight and check....
Click to expand...

I bought a few bags at my local granite monument yard a few years back, you know the place that sells granite for decorative work...not gravestones. It's less than 5 bucks for a bag, 40 or 50 lbs don't quite recall. A local body shop might help you out as well, I get mine now from him when I need some. I know places like the power utilities use it all the time so if you know some one there you might be able to get some as well.

Be careful though it cuts real fast and on a panel can warp thinner metal. Do it outside if possible otherwise it will be everywhere in the garage. if you have other vehicles in there remove them before you start. Put plastic over your tool box, etc. THis GOES EVERWHERE. But it is cool to erase the rust right before your eyes!!!

GL

Pete
 
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1973Guppie said:
so I have looked around and harbor freight has this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=30972

and 2 50 pound bags are only 8.99 to ship, or I could pick it up locally at a HF, will these glass beads work well to strip the frame, body, bondo, etc? does anyone know if they are reusable? the starblast stuff looks good, but at $5 a pound it would cost me some $, with this stuff I can get 100 pounds for $70, anyone have any idea of how many pounds one should have on hand to blast a truck and frame? thanks for everyone's comments and help, it has been very useful.

Noah
Click to expand...

Noah,

I have never used glass beads but I understand it will give sheetmetal a nice finish. depending on the severity of the rust on the frame, it might take a while to cut through. Black Beauty, medium grit will cut the rust on a frame quickly but I would use the fine stuff if you plan on using it on sheetmetal, better yet use the glass for the body panels and BB on the frame.

Pete
 
Sand of any kind will be too harsh for thin steel. It will etch/erode the surface and cause warping due to heating and peening effect of the sand particles.

On body panels use baking soda. Relatively cheap, no bio hazard (use a respirator of course), and is safe even on glass and rubber. Will not strip heavy rust, but will allow you to see exactly where the rust is.

You could use glass beads at low pressure on the rusty spots, but I would take it very slowly and keep checking for peening and warping if doing body panels. Used beads would be best, they cut better without as much 'impact'.

There should be a soda blaster in your area.
 
In my area, northern Virginia, it's best to buy Black Beauty from the rental tool places, they rent the huge compressor and sand blast rigs so they stock the media and sell it for a fair price.

I have used a lot of different media and it works the best for rust and built up paint removal. For hoods and doors where sheet metal is thinner, be very careful. You can actually deform the metal by blasting up close with high pressure. I use sand blasting sand there and just focus on the rusty areas. If you need to remove all the paint from an area like that, I'd use plastic media or chemically strip, otherwise you can easily warp the panel even if you are careful.

I would be concerned about silica, even if you have a limited exposure; it's still not a good thing. Saying not to worry about it is not a great piece of advice. Play sand, construction sand and other types of sand are chock full of silica. They also don't even come close to working as well as either sand blasting sand, black beauty or any other media made for blasting.

I know you said not to chip in about just having it done, but I used to a have a really nice TIP Pressure Blaster, a huge air compressor and all the gear to sand blast. These days, I just have someone else do it. Plastic Media Blasting, Soda Blasting and the newest thing - Dry Ice Pellet blasting are all so much better for preserving the metal and keep it distortion free. Dry ice is great because the media evaporates. This is critical, because when you sand blast, the sand or any other particle from the media that your using can wind up inside of something. I once bead blasted a motorcycle engine case and then found out that it took HOURS and HOURS of cleaning to get all of the media out of the case. Even when I thought it was clean, I'd run a tap into a hole and find another bead. Just one bead in there could frag the motor.

If you don't have a huge job, a Harbor Freight blaster and some black beauty will get the job done. Just wear a real respirator and keep any mechanical parts away from the job.

If there is a part you can't remove or don't want to remove such as a steering box, what I have heard is best to keep the sand out is to first wrap the joint of the seal with some wax covered string. Wrap the string around many times and then cover in several layers of duct tape. It's still better to remove any mechanical parts, but sometimes it's better

-Stumbaugh
 
thanks for everyone's comments! I think I am going to go with the glass beads route, it sounds like they are reusable?? and the local HF has them for $30 for 50 pound bag. The rust on the frame and body is not excessive so I would rather er on the conservative side and make sure I don't warp panels. Sounds like the glass beads will be less harsh than the black beauty stuff. I really just need to strip the bondo work the PO did on the thing, what a fing hack this guy was!!

One more question, should I expect flash rusting right after I finish sandblasting? When others did their sandblasting, did they paint right away? Ideally I would like to just spray the areas I sandblast with some rattle can primer. Is there a certain rattle can primer that is compatible with most automotive paints. I plan to outsource most of the body work and paint, minus the metal patches. So, in that sense I don't need an ideal paint prep, just something to keep the surface rust from coming back, that can be blocked and primed/painted over later without having ill effects on the topcoat that will be put on. Thanks again for all the help! If all goes well I will be blasting next weekend. Can't wait to see the look on the neighbors face with me out there in a freaking NASA space walk moon suit. :)

Noah
 
one thing I forgot to ask, what is the reccomended process after blasting WITH GLASS BEADS to remove any contaminants before spraying primer?? I thought I read with silica that you must clean with a certain chemical or ? to ensure to remove certain debrees? Can you simply spray the primer on after the glass beading or is a tri sodium phosphate wash reccomended? I would think spraying it down with water might cause flash rust. Maybe just shooting air all over to knock out any remaining glass beads? Opinions appreciated.....
 
bump....anyone else??

again, looking for info on the surface prep after sandblasting and what one should do and what primer to use, not a body shop guy here so sorry for the cluelessness. Basically looking for what steps I should take after blasting, is a spray over with compressed air (to get the glass beads off), wipe down with solvent and primer sufficient? what type of primer can I use that would come in a rattle can? I know I have seen "automotive primer" before, would this work? I basically just need to get it blasted, weld in patch panels and then all the bondo/bodwork will be outsourced, but I don't want to screw something up by putting on the wrong primer and have it cost me more $ because the bodyshop has to restrip the primer off. Any info on this appreciated. What are the steps others have taken after sandblasting?

Also, I just tested the Husky sandblaster I got from home depot, a cheapie $10 POS that comes with the gun and a hose that goes into a bucket of sand, industrial blasting sand bought from HD. I was surprised to see that even at 100psi this thing did little to remove paint. Do other sanblasters that come from harbor freight work better or ? If I wer to use this thing i would be blasting for a week straight to get the truck done. Any reccomendations on sanblasters others have used from HF that have worked well for you would be appreciated. Thanks for the bandwith on this issue.

Noah
 
Had some stuff blasted this morning actually. The guy has mostly switched from soda to crushed glass - glass dust effectively - it's cheaper, but not as nice during or after the job.

Not knowing what your neighborhood is like, or how important good relations with the neighbors are, but you might want to consider taking the job to an empty field/old gravel pit etc. Depends which was the wind is blowing, but would be worth striinging some tarps to make a booth and working in there.

The noise is really incredible. I've done quite a bit of blasting, but it's hard to judge how loud it is until you stand outside.
 
1973Guppie said:
bump....anyone else??

again, looking for info on the surface prep after sandblasting and what one should do and what primer to use, not a body shop guy here so sorry for the cluelessness. Basically looking for what steps I should take after blasting, is a spray over with compressed air (to get the glass beads off), wipe down with solvent and primer sufficient? what type of primer can I use that would come in a rattle can? I know I have seen "automotive primer" before, would this work? I basically just need to get it blasted, weld in patch panels and then all the bondo/bodwork will be outsourced, but I don't want to screw something up by putting on the wrong primer and have it cost me more $ because the bodyshop has to restrip the primer off. Any info on this appreciated. What are the steps others have taken after sandblasting?

Also, I just tested the Husky sandblaster I got from home depot, a cheapie $10 POS that comes with the gun and a hose that goes into a bucket of sand, industrial blasting sand bought from HD. I was surprised to see that even at 100psi this thing did little to remove paint. Do other sanblasters that come from harbor freight work better or ? If I wer to use this thing i would be blasting for a week straight to get the truck done. Any reccomendations on sanblasters others have used from HF that have worked well for you would be appreciated. Thanks for the bandwith on this issue.

Noah
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A suction blaster, like the one you got from Home Depot, is not very powerful and very inefficient. Uses a lot of sand and air and works very slowly. You may be able to improve the performance of the one you bought by changing the nozzle size. TP tools makes a suction blaster with a highly refined design that works better than you might think it would but still not good at all compared to a pressure blaster.

A pressure blaster is a pressurized pot that mixes the sand and air inside a sealed container and sends the mixture through a very heavy-duty hose. Uses less air and sand and is more powerful. The HF version will work better than a suction blaster but a made in USA version like the ones sold by TP tools work very well. You need a huge air compressor to run one of these and even then you can't run it all the time. This uses about 1/2 the sand to do the same job and even though you need more air to run one, it's still uses less over the life of the whole job.

More powerful pressure blasters can be rented that run of a diesel trailer. These are amazing, they can be run as long as you need them and are too powerful to use to prep body panels. Last year, I used one to prep my frame for paint. I was able to blast the whole frame in about an hour using black beauty. I did use a ton of sand. It made a huge mess. Like I said, I am done with doing it DIY.

To make an analogy, using a suction blaster and a small 110V air compressor to clean off rust and paint would be like using a garden sprayer to clean mud off your truck. It will work but not well.

Using a portable pressure blaster like the kind made by TP/Eastwood is amazing; they will blast off paint and rust like fresh mud comes off with a garden hose.

Using a large diesel powered pressure blaster that runs off diesel powered trailer compressor would be like using a fire hose to clean mud off your truck. Way overkill for most except for thick steel like frames.

Suction blaster is probably best suited for small jobs and or for use inside a blast cabinet.


To answer your question about surface prep:

1. Wash it very well before you even start blasting. Hot water with a strong detergent - I use dawn dish soap or metal ready from POR. If you don't, whatever grease, oil, wax, etc, will get worked into the metal and could contaminate the primer/paint. Often this can cause fish eyes or other funky paint problems.

2. Once dry, sand blast.

3. Wash again, first with soap and then you mix water and a product called panel prep from your local auto body store - basically a weak acid that preps the metal, conditions it and takes care of the flash rust (with a mild acid).

Once you have sand blasted, the steel will start to rust right away. In a humid environment, it will flash rust in 45 minutes. You might not be able to see it, but if you took a rag and some lacquer thinner it would come off rusty when you wiped it down.

If you can't paint in 45 minutes, keep it out of the rain and wipe it down later with panel prep. Don't hose it down with WD40 if you want to paint it any time soon, even though WD40 was invented to keep rust off, it's hard to get it all off before you paint.

-Stumbaugh
 
I use glass beads in my blasting cabinet which recycles the media. I bought some of the HF stuff once just out of curiosity and won't buy anymore - extremely dusty and didn't work very well. You'd think crushed glass would all be the same but apparently not. TPTOOLS.COM sells a variety of media but I don't think you're going to have much success with one of the siphon blasters - and if you do its going to be slow and expensive. An alternative would be one of the small pressurized units like TPtools or Waterloo sells. I've got a 100 lb Waterloo unit and it works ok for stuff that I don't want to put in the blasting cabinet - but even at 100 lb capacity I can't imagine blasting anything large. Very small nozzle size but still goes through media fast. Also, my 5hp 80gal Ingersol Rand compressor has a hard time keeping up. For any kind of serious sandblasting - you really almost need a commercial unit.
 
Well, after much thought (I can't believe I am saying this) I have decided to outsource this part of the job. I know many of you are saying "told you so", :)

Anyhow, I am using a 1.7hp, 26 gallon husky compressor which sounds like is far, far too small for sandblasting, especially this project. I also decided that to do this right I need to take everything to bare metal. I have no idea what the PO's of this truck did as far as bodywork and don't want this to come back to bite me in the ass later. I plan to do the bodywork myself now and hope this will save some money and really I should learn how to do bodywork as if this is going to continue to be my hobby (restoring cars) it will pay off in the long run. Afterall this won't be a show truck and I plan to use it, so perfect paint / body is not necessary.

thanks for everyones help and opinions, this is a learning process and I hope that this thread will at least help someone else out in the future to decide whether or not they want to do this sort of thing at home. I have decided it is better to outsource and thus save my neighborhood relationships, time, and have zero frustration.

Noah
 
Noah thanks for the post, I have been reading the tips here intently as well! I was in teh outsourcing frame of mind too but you got curiousity thinking but I think again i am probably just going to have it done as well.. I have a semi small area (about 30 feet wide) with dirt / gravel and any sand would probably be permanently added and very little chance of reusing anything used.. So I guess I have to take it to the blasters as well. :(
 
yup, I am so damn stubborn that I want to do everything myself but after thinking this over it just doesn't make sense unless you have the right equipment/tools. I have a friend coming over this week to look over the body with me, he is fairly good with bodywork so I should know at that point what direction I will be taking. If in his opinion the rust is not that extensive, then I may try some chemical stripper and wire wheels. Any more than minimal and it is going to be sent out to the blaster. $ I don't have, but time I do, so I think I will step away from the project for about a month and drive the 40, been frustrated with it already! :) I will post up a build thread here soon...........

Noah
 
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