REAL TIME HELP NEEDED- heater issue or may may be joining h/g club
- Thread starter semlin
- Start date
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Semlin, you don't want to leave water in the cylinders for a week.
Oil in the cylinders is good, but can be difficult to get in there.
I would drain the coolant, run the engine for about a minute, then shut it down for the week.
Doing this, if the HG is bad, you'll eliminate any source of water into the cylinders, and one minute should be enough to dry it out, but not enough to damage things.
hope it's not the HG, dude!
good luck
have fun skiing!!
Oil in the cylinders is good, but can be difficult to get in there.
I would drain the coolant, run the engine for about a minute, then shut it down for the week.
Doing this, if the HG is bad, you'll eliminate any source of water into the cylinders, and one minute should be enough to dry it out, but not enough to damage things.
hope it's not the HG, dude!
good luck
have fun skiing!!
Simon I'm sorry I did not see this sooner and I bet you've left. What you describe soulds just like Doug's evperience when the gassket on his 93 let go.
- Thread starter
- #24
thanks guys. I'll drain the coolant and fog it! (I have outboard fogging oil in a spray can).
any speculation on the horrible scraping clattering noise at initial start up after the tow? I am wondering about the water pump possibly grenading.
edit: can't leave until a tire shop opens up!
any speculation on the horrible scraping clattering noise at initial start up after the tow? I am wondering about the water pump possibly grenading.
edit: can't leave until a tire shop opens up!
- Thread starter
- #25
ok, i drained the rad, ran it for a minute then pulled the plugs and fogged the cylinders
prior to doing this i confirmed that when the motor is cold and the rad cap is off you can see fluid flow from ds to ps across the opening.
here is a photo of the plugs from left to right #6 to #1. #2-5 were basically identical with a white or grey ash on the electrode and otherwise black. #6 had slightly less grey ash. #1 was black. Not sure what this tells me.
prior to doing this i confirmed that when the motor is cold and the rad cap is off you can see fluid flow from ds to ps across the opening.
here is a photo of the plugs from left to right #6 to #1. #2-5 were basically identical with a white or grey ash on the electrode and otherwise black. #6 had slightly less grey ash. #1 was black. Not sure what this tells me.
Ok. I definitely see a pattern. The problem clearly has to do with incipient vacations. idahodoug was leaving - HG blew. semlin is leaving - HG blows. I'm buying fogging oil, since I have a chunk of vacation time saved up.
Semlin,
This doesn't look good. By now you're on your way I'm sure, but I hope you turned the engine over after/while fogging and w/o plugs to work some of that oil into the ring seats. If you own fogging oil and have used it, then I'm sure you know how to use it. Before doing the actual fogging, simply having someone turn it over while you sit there watching would tell you a lot. A fine coolant mist will come out if you have a blown HG enough to smell. You can also put your nose to each plug hole and sniff the coolant on the offending cylinder. I look at your plugs, and it's comically opposite my lined up plugs as for me #6 was black like that due to normal carbon deposits getting loosened up in the cylinder, but not a long enough time to clean up the cylinder.
The one thing that's bugging me is the heater refuses to work. It takes a bit of proper filling to get all air out, but with the front up a few inches this generally happens easily, so you should not have this problem. It's a bummer to recommend this, but I suggest you refill it when you get home until you're sure the system is properly full. THEN drive/test things and do some things as I did on my '93 in my post from about 12-12-05 or so.
Just remember that after you refill and run it, you'll need to again dry and fog it so the rings don't rust in place while you're doing the work or having it worked on. Feel free to PM me for my number and we can talk on the phone if I can be of help.
DougM
This doesn't look good. By now you're on your way I'm sure, but I hope you turned the engine over after/while fogging and w/o plugs to work some of that oil into the ring seats. If you own fogging oil and have used it, then I'm sure you know how to use it. Before doing the actual fogging, simply having someone turn it over while you sit there watching would tell you a lot. A fine coolant mist will come out if you have a blown HG enough to smell. You can also put your nose to each plug hole and sniff the coolant on the offending cylinder. I look at your plugs, and it's comically opposite my lined up plugs as for me #6 was black like that due to normal carbon deposits getting loosened up in the cylinder, but not a long enough time to clean up the cylinder.
The one thing that's bugging me is the heater refuses to work. It takes a bit of proper filling to get all air out, but with the front up a few inches this generally happens easily, so you should not have this problem. It's a bummer to recommend this, but I suggest you refill it when you get home until you're sure the system is properly full. THEN drive/test things and do some things as I did on my '93 in my post from about 12-12-05 or so.
Just remember that after you refill and run it, you'll need to again dry and fog it so the rings don't rust in place while you're doing the work or having it worked on. Feel free to PM me for my number and we can talk on the phone if I can be of help.
DougM
Canada, near the west coast.
I have not spoken with him yet. Based on his plans to go out of town I do not expect to hear from him 'til he gets back.
- Thread starter
- #34
doug i am in vancouver when I am there. currently i am in osoyooos halfway to the ski hill. wifi and a laptop from work make me a true mud addict i think
i'm debating whether I am definitely hooped or not. i am 99% sure but I've been mulling over whether there is any point in flushing the core and removing and inspecting the heater valve and replacing the rad cap before I give up the ghost. I was parked on a slight uphill grade by the way but i can't rule out an air pocket as I agree the heater not working part is a bother (unless nothing is getting through to the heater which is a big concern). did i simultaneously blow a heater hose, break the heater valve, blow my head gasket and do whatever caused that horrendous scraping/clattering at start up too, or is there another simpler explanation. I am going to sleep on it then maybe give dan a call tomorrow.
and yes i cranked it with the plugs out and fogging oil in. however, i did not think to try looking for antifreeze.
i'm debating whether I am definitely hooped or not. i am 99% sure but I've been mulling over whether there is any point in flushing the core and removing and inspecting the heater valve and replacing the rad cap before I give up the ghost. I was parked on a slight uphill grade by the way but i can't rule out an air pocket as I agree the heater not working part is a bother (unless nothing is getting through to the heater which is a big concern). did i simultaneously blow a heater hose, break the heater valve, blow my head gasket and do whatever caused that horrendous scraping/clattering at start up too, or is there another simpler explanation. I am going to sleep on it then maybe give dan a call tomorrow.
and yes i cranked it with the plugs out and fogging oil in. however, i did not think to try looking for antifreeze.
- Thread starter
- #36
hmmm. i "think" all the hoses [edit i mean belts!] were there. I can recall staring at the 2 lower belts as I changed the t-stat.
but ... i definitely had coolant cirulating accross the rad opening this morning. is that a reliable test of the water pump? wonder what a water pump grenading sounds like?
but ... i definitely had coolant cirulating accross the rad opening this morning. is that a reliable test of the water pump? wonder what a water pump grenading sounds like?
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Dunno how much water you had upon the clatter startup, but an engine block full of water seems to absorb a lot of water. When I started my block up empty to dry out my suspect cylinder, I was struck by the noise as well. When I merely cranked it with the plugs out I was downright shocked at the noise and attributed it to the normal slack in the piston wrist pins and cranks that compression might have masked, or combustion might have normalized. So don't jump to conclusions there either.
I know right where you are mentally on this. You're *fairly* convinced it's a head gasket. But recognize there's a chance it's some odd mechanical malady of another sort. Too bad you didn't have quite enough time before you left to confirm it as now it will bug you on your trip. Take my advice. Relax and enjoy your trip. If it is a HG you will find out on arrival home. If it is not, you will also find that out. Realize that it's the 'not knowing' that's bugging you the most and face it squarely.
I went through this myself and then resolved to confirm it before I left on my vacation. But I had several advantages over you. I had just a few hours more time. My kids and wife were already at our destination and it was just me at home time-wise. Plus I had just been through the 97's engine and could quickly diagnose it with the confidence of having been in there a few weeks ago.
If you lose your nerve on your trip and decide to order the parts, feel free to add me to your call list along with Dan and others to decide what makes sense to have on hand when you arrive home. At this rate (see forum), you'll be able to offload a valve grind kit (gaskets and seals) to someone in your area if you don't need them.
If you had coolant circulating I think your water pump is fine. A failed water pump is a statistical oddity and I don't think this fits.
DougM
I know right where you are mentally on this. You're *fairly* convinced it's a head gasket. But recognize there's a chance it's some odd mechanical malady of another sort. Too bad you didn't have quite enough time before you left to confirm it as now it will bug you on your trip. Take my advice. Relax and enjoy your trip. If it is a HG you will find out on arrival home. If it is not, you will also find that out. Realize that it's the 'not knowing' that's bugging you the most and face it squarely.
I went through this myself and then resolved to confirm it before I left on my vacation. But I had several advantages over you. I had just a few hours more time. My kids and wife were already at our destination and it was just me at home time-wise. Plus I had just been through the 97's engine and could quickly diagnose it with the confidence of having been in there a few weeks ago.
If you lose your nerve on your trip and decide to order the parts, feel free to add me to your call list along with Dan and others to decide what makes sense to have on hand when you arrive home. At this rate (see forum), you'll be able to offload a valve grind kit (gaskets and seals) to someone in your area if you don't need them.
If you had coolant circulating I think your water pump is fine. A failed water pump is a statistical oddity and I don't think this fits.
DougM