Problems installing Slee's brake lines

[Bryan E.]

Boy...such a simple task sure is kicking my ass. It's my main transportation/daily driver.

Original problem was a leaking drivers side, frame to axle hose. I got home safely, Thank You God, and I ordered Slee's complete set of lines, figuring that if that one went, the others are sure to follow.

So for now...I'm just trying to get this one dang line replaced at least and have it leak free but it's not working well for me.

The flare nut at the top stripped even with a flare nut wrench so I had to use a small vice grip plyers. Got old hose off and put the new Slee hose in place. The top fittings worked ok but the axle line goes into a splitter box thing. It keeps leaking there at the axle fitting. I've taken it off about three times, finally did it again with another line to see if that was the problem, nope...it leaked as well at the axle.

I realize that I need to replace the hard line at the frame with a new flare nut. I haven't figured out where this hard line runs and how to disconnect it yet but the question I really need help with is what to do at the axle end? It leaked when I tightened it up so I tightened it up a little more. Still leaked, so a little more, etc. I even used a tiny bit of white teflon pipe dope on the threads only on the sides like I would when doing a gas pipe. I used to be a plumber. I know not to get it on the end flare connection and also know that it shouldn't need it at all.

I'm almost at the point of calling Toyota and ordering new factory lines but even then, I don't know if the axle leak is caused by the fitting there inside the box splitter or why it's leaking there. If the local Toyota house had a factory hose, I would grab one of those and try it.

Suggestions please.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I would buy a new hard line. You already know the flare nut is boogered up, so it's time to replace things.

Usually they are not expensive from Toyota. The alternative is to make your own, if you are good at double flaring things.

 

[Bryan E.]

Thanks for the reply C/Drew.

Yes, I'll buy a new hardline and flare nut but nobody has it in stock. I was told, two weeks to get it. I'm having to rent a car while my LC is down so I kept working at it and got it to work.

The flare nut wasn't the problem. The other end where it goes into the metal Y part on the top of the axle is where it kept leaking.

I read some of the responses of others people's leaks with their Slee kit and followed the suggestions.

The male end where it screwed into the Y at axle, I filed this to make it flat and made sure there were no burs in there. I cleaned the fitting where it screwed into.

What an aggravating job. In theory, it shouldn't be too difficult of a job but in reality, old vehicle, daily driver, road crud, old parts, even with correct flare wrench it didn't work as it should have at nut, and then at the other end.

I do not know if the problem with leak at the axle end was because of the aftermarket lines or not but it was easy to see the quality of the ends to be a big difference. The factory line has a nicer finish on the female cup end, plus a larger hole inside. I wish I had gotten a brand new factory hose just in case so I would have been able to just try that even if it was the same length as the original. I've maxed out the suspension and never had a line length issue but it's close to the limit. Well...the Slee SS lines sure look nice and I know many have used these with good results so I'll keep working at it to get them all changed out, system flushed and filled with nice Valvolene synthetic brake fluid.

Super hot here in Dallas, doesn't help things, working in the driveway.

 

[OGBeno]

We have one in stock. It can be shipped tomorrow and have it to you by Tues.

 

[Scamper]

If it's a choice between renting a car for two weeks or buying a temporary OEM line, take Beno up on his offer. If it works okay (eg. there's nothing else buggered up) you may as well just leave it there.

I just redid my entire brake system 'cuz I had the wuzzy-wooshy brake pedal problem. Replaced all the soft lines (didn't use SS lines), calipers, MC, and LSPV. Pedal is now firm as when new. Not sure what the culprit was, but I don't care; I can go another bajillion miles now.

 

[Bryan E.]

PM Sent to Beno.

Thanks Scamper.

Yes...the idea of changing out all parts is what I want to do. When I fix something, I like to do it right. Agravating that I couldn't do this quickly and efficiently on this today but I'll get it done right.

I don't want to mislead anybody on the lines to make it sound like I am blaming the Slee stainless lines. The ends are different enough to make me wonder if the original part just seats better, that's all. The SS lines look nice, are longer, and should make for a firmer pedal but I never had a problem with the OEM lines before now.

I can see the OEM lines being a lot easier to replace as well.

I'll be glad to have this whole project behind me.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

One other option is lines from Brake-Quip. These are super nice flex lines custom made to length while you wait. They do have the Toyota fittings.

Regarding the hard lines and ferrule nuts---The ends of the lines are double flared, so the nuts have to be on the line before the flaring takes place. You can't just replace the nut.

Making these double flare lines took me about 1 line to learn. A roll of tubing is $15 or so and the ferrule nuts are $0.90 each. If your lines are suspect, it will be worth your while to get the flaring tools and a bender and start making your own. If you just have 1 bad line, buy the one from Beno and Cruiserdan.

 

[OGBeno]

One other option is lines from Brake-Quip. These are super nice flex lines custom made to length while you wait. They do have the Toyota fittings.

Regarding the hard lines and ferrule nuts---The ends of the lines are double flared, so the nuts have to be on the line before the flaring takes place. You can't just replace the nut.

Making these double flare lines took me about 1 line to learn. A roll of tubing is $15 or so and the ferrule nuts are $0.90 each. If your lines are suspect, it will be worth your while to get the flaring tools and a bender and start making your own. If you just have 1 bad line, buy the one from Beno and Cruiserdan.

X2 what Andy says.

 

[nuclearlemon]

i used to make my own hardlines, but found my local checker carries various lengths in the correct mm. just bend and install. they're usually in the back of the parts dept, so you'll have to ask to see the selection.

 

[landtank]

I've now replaced a few lines on my truck and thought the price Toyota charges for them is extremely reasonable. As long as it's not a time sensitive repair I'll be using them as they are drop ins.

 

[Bryan E.]

Still working on this. Rained stopped me tonight or I would have finished. Only two remaining lines to change out, the front caliper lines, then I start the fun process of bleeding the entire system.

I have read a lot of posts about doing this but I've run into a lot of problems that I did not read any others going through, so in the interest of possible being able to help somebody in the future with this project I wanted to share my thoughts and what worked for me.

First of all...no offense to Slee or any other aftermarket line kits but here's the cold hard facts. If you want to change out your lines with ones that are going to be the easiest to install, perfect fit, will last another 16 years...I sure would recommend to go with the OEM lines. I found part numbers for OEM Toyota lines or Cruiser Dan can get these for you as a put together kit I assume.

Now...some reasons that I've figured out why these lines don't fit as well as the OEM are some of the female fittings are shorter than the OEM same fitting. This sometimes makes pushing the hard line down a little more to get the threads to start. It will work but, just takes more work to get these to fit. I also had trouble with one male thread, even tried two lines but both leaked. I ended up filing the end down to make it really flat, used a metal scraper tool to make sure the interior funnel at the top lip was smooth and and burr free. I don't know why I had to do this on brand new lines to get them to work but I had to. I also had to wrap teflon tape around the male threads on two of the lines. I made sure to keep the teflon tape away from the front of the fitting so it would make contact on the sides of the threads only. You shouldn't have to do this in an ideal world.

You will need some flare wrenches for this job. The factory lines are 17mm at the larger ends and 10mm at the hard line flare nut end. I got a set of metric wrenches from O-Reilys. Guys said to get a good set but these are what I was able to find. They were GM Goodwrench wrenches but it was missing a size that I found I needed for Slee's lines. On this kit from Slee, you will also need a 14mm flare wrench.

At the calipers, you will need a 14mm box wrench for the banjo bolts. I couldn't get a socket in there and a couple sets of wrenches and a small deadblow hammer worked well there.

Ok...here's the biggest problem that I had with the wrenches. The 10mm flare wrench and flare nuts were the most difficult to get loose. I had one flare nut strip to the point of putting a small vice grip on it to get it loose and tight again but it didn't leak a bit. I'll replace that hard line when I get a chance but for now...it will be ok. The big problem is the 10mm wrench didn't fit tight enough on the small nut. What I found to work, and it worked great is I put the 10mm flare nut wrench onto the nut. Then I grabbed a regular pair of vice grip plyers and locked them tightly on top of the flare nut wrench on top of the nut. It squeezed it a little tighter onto the the nut, and added longer leverage to loosen the nuts. Of course, I sprayed them well with PB Blaster ahead of time, several times over but using the vice grip plyers on top of the 10mm flare nut wrench worked great.

When you start at a fitting, I found it best to take the retaining clip off and the little C clip off first before trying to put the two wrenches on and starting to try to loosen the fittings. This gives more room for the 17mm flare nut wrench to get a better bite on the full length of the nut hex.

In lining up the new lines with the shorter fittings, if the bracket has a bolt that holds the bracket, take the nut out. It will let you get the new line connected easier and let you move the fittings as needed to line them all up, and once it's tight, then you can put the bracket back in place.

Working in the high heat, sunny driveway with brake fluid running down your arm has not been fun. If I knew now about the shortcuts and double wrench, it would have been a lot easier. These old fittings though, sure don't want to come apart. It's not been a fun, quick and easy upgrade, that's for sure.

I'm sure some will laugh at me, thinking that I shouldn't have had any problems with such a simple job, but that's ok. I shouldn't have had, but I did. It takes the time it takes sometimes. It needs done right. It's got to function well when done or you can't drive it. Had I the chance to start all over from the beginning with what I know now...I would probably would have gotten a factory OEM set.

Lots of guys say that the stainless braided brake lines give more pressure and better braking. If this is true, it will be worth the cost and frustration but I can't help but wonder, what would all new factory lines have felt like and been so much easier to install.

Well...now the fun of bleeding the entire system. Do you have any tips on this? I've bleed them before but I have a feeling that this will be a lot harder than a normal bleed. The reservoir got low a few times.

Anybody ever had any luck using a "Miti Vac" bleeding system? I've got one, never used it for this. Have had best luck doing the two man job but I wanted to try this again if I can get it to work without having to pump the brakes.

I've also never bled the master cylinder. Not sure if I will need to now or not. Any tips for me here?

Thanks for your help and interest in this. Hopefully this will help somebody out on this same project.

 

[nuclearlemon]

i totally feel your pain. i haven't done the slee lines (yet...have the frame to axle set in my box, will go oem at the calipers), but everything i touch that should be easy usually turns into a nightmare.

that said. brakes can be a bitch. i'm used to it from years in the midwest. the fact that you're in texas where it's not a rustbelt, surprises me. the flares are pisspoor soft metal and are easy to strip, but on something this new (sorry, i'm used to 30 and 40 year old rigs, so 15 years old is new to me), it's odd that they would strip. the fact that you need to add a vice grip is a great bit of thinking outside the box (mucho kudos to you for that tip), but proof that quality tools do make a difference. i almost think we should start a "how to make harbor freight tools work" thread in the tools section, because i've been frustrated for years by cheap tools.

as for the slee line issue, i hope to hell yours is an isolated incident since, as i mentioned, i'll be putting slee lines on from frame to axle (due to future lift), but as you mentioned, i'm quite sure that the "oh my gosh, ss brake lines are the shiznit" attitudes are probably way overrated due to the 15 year old rubber.

hope all works out well for you and that your proportioning valve isn't a rusted blob of whatever in the heck mine is

 

[nuclearlemon]

btw, i hate my mityvac, but i've found it works by screwing around and holding pressure, then releasing it at the gun...stupid bleeders. still not the poke you through the windshield results that the pro vacuum bleeders get, but as mentioned, i'm used to 30 year old rigs

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I think I'm in the minority, but I've had no issues bleeding brakes. No special bleeding devices needed. You do need an assistant pumping the brakes. On an 80 do it with the motor on.

I don't see how teflon tape did anything for you. That isn't the sealing surface.

I have run the Slee lines for 7-8 years now. I'm ready to replace them, but there were no issues with the install.

You could also look into "Brake Quip" custom lines. They are really nice and have all of the desirable features.


Or.....you need speedy bleeders. they work awesome and become the bleeder long term. Speedy bleeder also supplies the best ever flex line for bleeding brakes.

You will thank me if you buy this $3 item: Bleeder Hose

 

[Bryan E.]

Got it done tonight. Need to bleed again but it's operational.

Agreed...shouldn't need the teflon tape. I did a couple of other things at the same time that might have helped, not sure. I don't see how it hurts. Slee says to take the tape back off. I'll do that when I have a new Toyota line to put in there if I need it. Still need a few hard line pieces with new flare nuts but for now...it's drivable.

One part that I missunderstood in reading other posts is what Slee was telling you to file down. He said that the part that can cause problems is on the hard line flare nut and flared end. The nut even gets swedged and mushroomed on the ends and it makes it hard to re-install. If you take the time to use a small file, and spin the nut and file off the mushroomed end just slightly, it will install easier into the new fittings. Slee said this would have been the same whether I had used a Slee SS line or a factory TOY line. Yes...I have to agree there.

Had a bleeder go bad, so I pulled it out, and put in a speed bleeder. That thing didn't work right, wouldn't ever shut off so I yanked it and put in a autozone bleeder screw for temporary until I can get a new one from Mr T. The speed bleeder must not have been the real good ones. Can't remember where I got them but this one never would shut off.

I just saw that you should bleed the 80's with engine on. Never read that before...not even in the FSM. Why? I will try that on the next go round. Hopefully it will help.

I did not bleed the master cylinder. Here's the bleed I did, and if you have a better way...please speak up.

I did the rear passenger side first, then rear drivers side, then LSV, then front drivers, then front passengers. Hmmm...prob. should have done the fronts in opposite order. Meant to do the front drivers last, but it was starting to rain on me and getting dark. Woops.


What sequence do you like for bleeding on the 80 series, and do I need engine on or off? What about doing the master cylinder?

I did find that a small wood framed wood clamp worked great to clamp onto the brake pedal arm, keeping it off the floor and allowing it to only go down to normal operating distance from floor. That worked way better than a board. Wooden Hand Clamps It's got three or four inch long jaws. Worked really well.

Traditional brake bleeding with hose and jar with small hole poked through lid for hose, to hold it tight worked great. Small 10mm wrench, but used a 10mm 6pt socket first to get them broken loose. Most were just stuck, except for one really bad one.

Send me your bleeding sequences and tips if you have any other tricks that might be useful. When to bleed the master cylinder and how, and when to do the LSV would be helpful.

Thanks again.