P-rated Toyo OC ATIII? (1 Viewer)

[EPUro2019]

Finally time for new tires. I have a set of RW rims (5)vwaiting to be mounted for a complete change-up. Wife is currently the DD of the LC and is very ride conscious. I've debated ad nauseum which tire to get. I'd like at least somewhat of an aggressive looking pattern and some off-road capability. Only mod I may ever do is add step-sliders, more for step performance and protection than for significant off-road use. I do not plan to add lift or other armor.

I've considered:

Nitto Ridge Grapler
Cooper ATIII XLT
Toyo ATIII (current choice)

Current uses: 90% HWY, 10% other. I do have a ski boat that I tow occasionally but that is really only 1-2x/yr.

I know I should probably consider others but lately I'm interested in the Toyo ATIII. Anyone running this in P-rating? I've definitely considered C or E rated but worried about ride comfort/quality as the wife currently thinks the LC is too bumpy. If it were just me I don't care about a bumpy ride but I lose that argument easily.

Anyone with any experience with the P-rated ATIII?

 

[bloc]

The AT3s are pretty new, so you might have trouble finding a lot of feedback, especially in the more rare p-metric flavor.

That said, many happy miles on p-metric AT2s for me, with a very notable advantage in ride quality over my previous KO2s. I can’t say they look aggressive though, especially as they wear. But they do still work great in rocks and gravel.

 

[sdnative]

I had the AT2 in the past (285/75R16) and now have the AT3 (275/70R18) both load range E. I am and have been very happy with them but the ride is definitely firmer than the factory tires. Not harsh, but noticeably firmer.

The factory tires are XL load rated, hard to find rating that in a p-metric except for the factory size.

 

[99Cruiser]

If you are driving 90% highway then maybe a more road oriented tire? Also will your wife be noise conscious since I read the AT3 still has some road noise with windows up.

 

[linuxgod]

I have the Nitto RGs. Traction is good, particularly in rain, light snow, and rocky trails. My MPG took a huge hit when I installed them though. YMMV.

 

[TeCKis300]

I don't have a great number of miles on my AT3s yet, and trips have been limited to around town. Impressions are on the floatation flavor of the AT3s which is the most aggressive of the lineup. P-metric should be better in manners all around.

- Noise: Definitely can hear but it's mild and unobtrusive, or good to very good and what I expect from a medium aggressive AT tire. About what it was on the Falken AT3Ws which were great for as aggressive as they were.
- Vibration: Excellent. These very roll smooth with no notable grittiness. I'm always warry of balance issues particularly with larger diameter tires, but these balanced out to perfection. Something that Toyo's in general have been praised for with their high production quality
- Harshness: These ride like butter. Best ride I've experienced on the LX yet, even with stocks considered. To the extent that I've increased pressures quite a bite above RCTIP (35 PSI to 40 PSI) even unladen, to get the ride and handling balance I want. YMMV. I attribute the good ride to a few things - 35x12.5R20 so more sidewall. Floatation type. Wider tire fitment on narrow wheels to increase sidewall compliance.

On road traction - still scrubbing the tire in but on road traction is direct (with increased pressures) and good so far. I expect these to be just about best in class for this.

Off-road, snow, rain - I expect great things out of these tires based on my research. The point was to have my cake and eat it too, by not trading too much NVH for capability.

My opinion but AT3s are the current ticket in AT tires.

 

[EPUro2019]

I don't have a great number of miles on my AT3s yet, and trips have been limited to around town. Impressions are on the floatation flavor of the AT3s which is the most aggressive of the lineup. P-metric should be better in manners all around.

- Noise: Definitely can hear but it's mild and unobtrusive, or good to very good and what I expect from a medium aggressive AT tire. About what it was on the Falken AT3Ws which were great for as aggressive as they were.
- Vibration: Excellent. These very roll smooth with no notable grittiness. I'm always warry of balance issues particularly with larger diameter tires, but these balanced out to perfection. Something that Toyo's in general have been praised for with their high production quality
- Harshness: These ride like butter. Best ride I've experienced on the LX yet, even with stocks considered. To the extent that I've increased pressures quite a bite above RCTIP (35 PSI to 40 PSI) even unladen, to get the ride and handling balance I want. YMMV. I attribute the good ride to a few things - 35x12.5R20 so more sidewall. Floatation type. Wider tire fitment on narrow wheels to increase sidewall compliance.

On road traction - still scrubbing the tire in but on road traction is direct (with increased pressures) and good so far. I expect these to be just about best in class for this.

Off-road, snow, rain - I expect great things out of these tires based on my research. The point was to have my cake and eat it too, by not trading too much NVH for capability.

My opinion but AT3s are the current ticket in AT tires.

I couldn't figure out where flotation is on the range. Is that stiffer than e? Or just entirely different.

Anyone with c experience?

 

[gaijin]

Finally time for new tires. I have a set of RW rims (5)vwaiting to be mounted for a complete change-up. Wife is currently the DD of the LC and is very ride conscious. I've debated ad nauseum which tire to get. I'd like at least somewhat of an aggressive looking pattern and some off-road capability. Only mod I may ever do is add step-sliders, more for step performance and protection than for significant off-road use. I do not plan to add lift or other armor.

I've considered:

Nitto Ridge Grapler
Cooper ATIII XLT
Toyo ATIII (current choice)

Current uses: 90% HWY, 10% other. I do have a ski boat that I tow occasionally but that is really only 1-2x/yr.

I know I should probably consider others but lately I'm interested in the Toyo ATIII. Anyone running this in P-rating? I've definitely considered C or E rated but worried about ride comfort/quality as the wife currently thinks the LC is too bumpy. If it were just me I don't care about a bumpy ride but I lose that argument easily.

Anyone with any experience with the P-rated ATIII?

Anyone contemplating using the 17" TRD "Rock Warrior" wheels on their LC200 should read the Toyota technical monograph on them - find it here: Toyota Installation Sheet for 17" TRD Alloy Wheels It contains a lot of good info, including the recommendation for LT285/70R17 tires.

If you choose to go with the tire size Toyota recommends, then you may find the following info useful:

Nitto Ridge Grappler
This tire is available in three varieties in the recommended size, with these RCTIP's (Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressures) and specs:
285/70R17 116Q Standard Load / Max Speed: 99mph, RCTIP on LC200: 33psi, Max Load: 2756lbs @ 44psi
LT285/70R17 C 116/113Q Load Range C / Max Speed: 99mph, RCTIP on LC200: 40psi, Max Load: 2755lbs @ 50psi (116)
LT285/70R17 E 121/118Q Load Range E / Max Speed: 99mph, RCTIP on LC200: 40psi, Max Load: 3195lbs @ 80psi (121)

Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT
This tire is only available in one variety in the recommended size, with these specs:
LT285/70R17 E 121/118S Load Range E / Max Speed: 112mph, RCTIP on LC200: 40psi, Max Load: 3195lbs @ 80psi (121)

Toyo Open Country A/T III
This tire is available in three varieties in the recommended size, with these specs:
P285/70R17 117T Standard Load / Max Speed: 118mph, RCTIP on LC200: 27psi, Max Load: 2833lbs @ 44psi
LT285/70R17 116/113Q Load Range C / Max Speed: 99mph, RCTIP on LC200: 40psi, Max Load: 2755lbs @ 50psi (116)
LT285/70R17 121/118S Load Range E / Max Speed: 112mph, RCTIP on LC200: 40psi, Max Load: 3195lbs @ 80psi (121)

Generally speaking, the higher the RCTIP, the firmer the ride will be. Whether this is acceptable to you, in your use case, is entirely subjective. I daily drive LT285/70R17 Load Range E tires @40psi on my 2013 LC200 and find the ride very comfortable.

The other most impactful difference between tires of different construction is durability. Again, generally speaking, LT-Metric tires will be more durable than P-Metric and ISO-Metric tires, and higher Load Range E tires will be more durable than Load Range C tires. In this context, "durable" means resistance to puncture and road damage due to debris, potholes, etc.

Whatever you choose, at least you have some data to base your decision on.

HTH

 

[TeCKis300]

I couldn't figure out where flotation is on the range. Is that stiffer than e? Or just entirely different.

Anyone with c experience?

I believe different. The most aggressive tread (impacting NVH), but LTs may span to higher load ranges.

 

[gaijin]

I couldn't figure out where flotation is on the range. Is that stiffer than e? Or just entirely different.

Anyone with c experience?

Flotation tires are radial LT tires. For example, the 35X12.50R20LT Flotation tire is spec'd to Max Loads of 3195lbs @ 65psi (Load Range E) or 3640lbs @ 80psi (Load Range F). So, in this case, I would expect them to be as stiff as comparable LT-Metric tires in Load Range E or F accordingly.

HTH

 

[Sandroad]

Wife is currently the DD of the LC and is very ride conscious

This is super important. Your wife already considers the ride bumpy! Other than your interest in looks and what appears to be very occasional off-road but not rock-crawling use, IMHO I would not even consider an AT tire or E rated tire. The challenge is you want to go with Rock Warriors and tires for those are AT and/or E rated. Wherever you buy tires, make sure they have a return policy that works for you. Once your wife tries out a heavy, rugged tire, you might be returning them.

 

[TeCKis300]

This is super important. Your wife already considers the ride bumpy! Other than your interest in looks and what appears to be very occasional off-road but not rock-crawling use, IMHO I would not even consider an AT tire or E rated tire. The challenge is you want to go with Rock Warriors and tires for those are AT and/or E rated. Wherever you buy tires, make sure they have a return policy that works for you. Once your wife tries out a heavy, rugged tire, you might be returning them.

This. I'd put this tire on your list if you must have ATs - Michelin LTX A/T2

 

[EPUro2019]

thank you all for the input, very helpful. My wife complains about everything so not sure how much it will actually impact things. I'd like to find a balance between comfort and performance and durability. I live in the PNW and as my daughter gets older I'd love to explore more off-road areas with her. I'm focused on ATIII for now at least, just a decision on P/C/E. Looks like pros and cons of each but at least they should be reasonable.

Thanks!

 

[bloc]

Note that while they look similar, the P-metric AT3 does have substantial differences in tread spacing and depth compared to the LT flavors. This can lead to notable differences in things like noise.

Also I believe one of the biggest factors in ride quality to be tire pressure. Anyone that has aired down to 20 psi or less for a trail can attest to it being a very noticeable difference in how many of the smaller bumps make their way into the driver's seat.

As @gaijin shows, per the load tables, for the same capacity, the P-metric tire requires much less tire pressure to safely cruise down the road. This will pay big dividends in ride comfort for every mile these things are on the vehicle.

Something not talked about much is the fact that P-metric AT3s plus rock warriors is very close to the combined weight of the road-oriented tires and stock wheels that landcruisers come with.

And, mileage. I picked up 2-3mpg on the freeway with these compared to the LT-E KO2's I was running, despite being even taller (slightly). Keep in mind the very reason those LT tires require more pressure is the more substantial construction increasing friction within the tire, and that friction ultimately requires more HP to cruise down the road.

All of this adds up to what I think is a great combination for many of us.

 

[Madtiger]

This. I'd put this tire on your list if you must have ATs - Michelin LTX A/T2

To be honest, Michelin Defender surpasses LTX AT2 in pretty much every way, except maybe looks. According to Michelin rep, AT2 is not any tougher than Defender...and likely less tough due to using much older rubber compound.

 

[EPUro2019]

Note that while they look similar, the P-metric AT3 does have substantial differences in tread spacing and depth compared to the LT flavors. This can lead to notable differences in things like noise.

Also I believe one of the biggest factors in ride quality to be tire pressure. Anyone that has aired down to 20 psi or less for a trail can attest to it being a very noticeable difference in how many of the smaller bumps make their way into the driver's seat.

As @gaijin shows, per the load tables, for the same capacity, the P-metric tire requires much less tire pressure to safely cruise down the road. This will pay big dividends in ride comfort for every mile these things are on the vehicle.

Something not talked about much is the fact that P-metric AT3s plus rock warriors is very close to the combined weight of the road-oriented tires and stock wheels that landcruisers come with.

And, mileage. I picked up 2-3mpg on the freeway with these compared to the LT-E KO2's I was running, despite being even taller (slightly). Keep in mind the very reason those LT tires require more pressure is the more substantial construction increasing friction within the tire, and that friction ultimately requires more HP to cruise down the road.

All of this adds up to what I think is a great combination for many of us.

Good advice, you get some of the AT look and performance but more road performance/comfort (and warranty).

 

[EPUro2019]

To be honest, Michelin Defender surpasses LTX AT2 in pretty much every way, except maybe looks. According to Michelin rep, AT2 is not any tougher than Defender...and likely less tough due to using much older rubber compound.

Defender in 17" only comes in E rated, correct?

 

[Madtiger]

Defender in 17" only comes in E rated, correct?

Yeah, think so. My bad. At least it is not that heavy at 50 lbs.

 

[MikeVpdx503]

I am considering the Toyo ATIII’s in P285/70R17 as well. They are a newer tire design with pretty good ratings for wet and winter driving (I am also PNW native). Currently have KO2’s on RW’s in LT285/70R17 E load and like the ride and have no issues with noise, but the tire design is ancient at this point. Winter traction is decent for our type of conditions, but any AT is probably as good or better. I find myself using the Land Cruiser for long road trips more than off-roading these days and wouldn’t mind a bump in MPGs. I can still squeak out 17-18 MPGs on freeway with KO2’s, but if I could get 5-10% increase with P-Metric...I’m still undecided between Toyo’s and Michelin Defenders, but either wouldn’t be a bad choice.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I put a set on a ‘19 last month. They were louder than I was expecting, just alight more then a KO2 of same size.

Typical Toyo ride, very smooth, little stiff so good on the turns but meh on the bumps, little slippery when wet.

Great California tire. I still prefer KO2s for the Carolinas.