OK! so finally, really, for sure, what mods are truly necessary with 2.5-3." lifts?

[e9999]

anybody with heavies or Js, no caster correction, and happy?

 

[cruiserman]

I put light/med OME combo (don't remember the part numbers) on my rig. I haven't done any mods to it at all other than the LSPV, but it could use caster correction. My rig is lighter than stock.

 

[tarbe]

I guess, folks, what I'm really asking is what is the minimum amount of mods one could reasonably get away with if one would want a 2.5" or Js?

Or IOW, can one get away with just putting heavies -or better Js- springs and do nothing else?

I would be skeptical of any absolutely definitive statements such as "You never have to..."

I can tell you that with nothing more than an OME heavy lift I was carving the slip yoke cover on the sway bar. I HAD to drop my front sway bar. I do not have the L shocks.

 

[Tools R Us]

My truck is light, 5000 lb. (if that's called light), only the ARB bull bar added. With J's, L's and 1.5" spacers in the front it's a little over 5" lift. The front is 24.75" and the rear is 25.25" measured from hub center to flare edge. The OME bushings are not enough correction and I have slight driveline vibration.

I lowered the brake line and e-brake mount point in the rear, with this simple mod the factory brake line is long enough. With L shocks you will need to extend the diff breathers. The sway bar links were cut in half and 2" added. I prefer this method, it looks cleaner and on the rear the sway bar is mounted to the axle it sees a bunch of side to side movement when flexed and the longer links allow more movement, reducing binding.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=34665

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=39432

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I could argue that expedition wheeling requires just as much suspension flex as rock crawling. You wouldn't want to be 1 ravine away from that prime camping spot and discover that you can't cross it and have to end the "expedition" early.

-B-

I would argue a bit differently. True "Expedition" set-up would suggest a very conservative truck, so as not to overstress any of the major components, and minimize breakdowns during the trek. Thus 33s over 35s, and the minimum lift necessary to run the intended route. This would be preferable to a wilder set-up. Using mostly stock components is good to assure parts availability anywhere along the route. It would also require near stock handling and braking for safety as much of the expedition will still be on paved roads at high speeds. Now here in the USA things like parts availability, and distance from civilization are almost non-issues, but generally the further you deviate from stock, the more likely things are to break. Look at the 20 year expedition by that German couple-their FJ60 is basically a stocker. Even "Tubby Explorer" is pretty stock interms of lift, tires and running gear.

Once you do go down the path of modification, then as a favor to those with whom you share the road, do things right. Do not compromise safety to save a few $. I drove my truck with Js and no caster correction, and it was a handful braking from speed. With caster bushings it was better, and with caster plates it was like stock. Remember, you can't predict when some dickhead is going to pull out in front of you, and I've seen more than one 80 series rolled over in a freeway type accident.

If you want your 80 to do the wild stuff in Moab, and to daily drive to work, you will have to modify many of the components to get the truck back to stock handling characteristics. That's what many have us have done or are in progress. The most important thing would be to decide what you want to do as specifically as possible, and then as a group we could make specific reccomendations.

 

[e9999]

I would be skeptical of any absolutely definitive statements such as "You never have to..."

I can tell you that with nothing more than an OME heavy lift I was carving the slip yoke cover on the sway bar. I HAD to drop my front sway bar. I do not have the L shocks.

I guess that's one data point that contradicts Beo's take on this then...

Not that it's a big deal to drop the sway bar up front, only $50 or so IIRC and bolt-on.



edit: as pointed out by Beo below and confirmed by Tarbe, Tarbe's were OME shocks so this is not a contradiction...

 

[Tools R Us]

I would be skeptical of any absolutely definitive statements such as "You never have to..."

I can tell you that with nothing more than an OME heavy lift I was carving the slip yoke cover on the sway bar. I HAD to drop my front sway bar. I do not have the L shocks.

True, with any suspension modification the axles should be flexed through their travel range and any binding/rubbing/interference issues solved before it's driven. On my 2.5" lift the drive shaft only had about 1/8" clearance, just made some 1/2" spacers to give it some room.

 

[e9999]

Andy/Beo:
I also look at expedition as being different from rack crawling in that I don't try to go for difficult lines in the former just for fun as you would in the latter, instead I try to avoid harder lines in order to make it to the destination in one piece. So I would agree with Andy, if I got him right, that articulation and maybe lift are not as critical for expedition.

And yes, safety is No.1. That's why I'm trying to figure things out so I undestand better the must-dos I'd have to deal with. Just read so much contradictory stuff...

 

[Beowulf]

I guess that's one data point that contradicts Beo's take on this then...

Eric,

Reread my post and his post. He said OME heavy lift. I'll bet a case of Keystone that included OME shocks which are LONGER than stock. My post specifies STOCK length shocks.

I would be shocked (pun intended) if he was hitting the driveshaft with stock shocks and any of the OME springs.

-B-

 

[Beowulf]

I would argue a bit differently.

Andrew,
My comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek and I'll agree that an expedition rig should be built for durability and parts availability. The point I was trying to make was that any "build-up" should be well thought out and the objective should be to make the vehicle as capable as it needs to be for the intended task... and sometimes the "expedition" task includes a high lift and the associated suspension mods that entails.

-B-

 

[Hants]

I just installed my OME 2.5" Medium lift. The (anti) sway bar appears to be the first issue you would run into with a taller lift. Note that taller includes the OME 2.5" Heavy lift if you aren't running a Heavy load.

I've read a lot of threads here and on other forums. The pattern I see is that once you get beyond 2.5" Medium, a variety of issues crop up. "Beyond" includes L shocks, Heavy lift, J springs, spacers, and other roll-your-own combinations. Some appear to "get away with it". However, many times they come back days/weeks/months later with related problems.

Some of this is due to variances in specific trucks. I haven't heard of anyone that created issues by installing the OME 2.5" Medium lift.

Personally, I chose not to take on the headache/hassle of figuring out exactly how far I can push the lift before I start piece-mealing and spot-fixing. Of course, the family (safety & comfort) play into this choice also.

Just my $.00002

 

[e9999]

Eric,

Reread my post and his post. He said OME heavy lift. I'll bet a case of Keystone that included OME shocks which are LONGER than stock. My post specifies STOCK length shocks.

I would be shocked (pun intended) if he was hitting the driveshaft with stock shocks and any of the OME springs.

-B-

good point.

I went out and measured the gap. Lifted the truck to let the wheel droop fully with stock shocks (the limiting factor I assume). I got 1 3/4" gap between the sway bar and the driveshaft. IIRC, the OME shocks are just about 2" or so longer, so yes, that would bridge the gap and make it hit or be too close.

 

[tarbe]

Eric,

Reread my post and his post. He said OME heavy lift. I'll bet a case of Keystone that included OME shocks which are LONGER than stock. My post specifies STOCK length shocks.

I would be shocked (pun intended) if he was hitting the driveshaft with stock shocks and any of the OME springs.

-B-

Correct. I am running OME shocks, but not the L shocks.

 

[tarbe]

good point.

I went out and measured the gap. Lifted the truck to let the wheel droop fully with stock shocks (the limiting factor I assume). I got 1 3/4" gap between the sway bar and the driveshaft. IIRC, the OME shocks are just about 2" or so longer, so yes, that would bridge the gap and make it hit or be too close.

Did you stuff the opposite side? If not, you may well not have achieved max droop. Unless you are certain you maxed the shock.

It is pretty tough to simulate max articulation in the garage with a floor jack.

 

[mooker82]

Just get the OME kit with the bushings and shocks. Even if the castor bushings do not get castor fully within specs it will still drive really well. I have the heavy front and med rear and love it. Besure to set back a few $$ for new u joints as you may need them if you incur vibrations.

 

[Riley]

Eric - you've ridden in my rig. All I have on mine suspension wise is the OME 2.5 and the OME shocks that go with them. You'll likely want to install the castor correction kit and drop the LPSV. That's it.

Well said Doug (and many others). Eric, I think you are stressing over this too much. Just get the medium kit with caster bushings and be done with it. You can't go wrong with that setup for the type of wheeling you are talking about. It's what I'm running and I've never looked back.

 

[smokethedog]

I bought my '95 with the 2.5" OME lift/shocks and ARB w/ winch installed, and I have added a Kaymar rear bumper. The PO gave me the OME caster correction bushings, but had not installed them. I noticed that the truck liked to "wander" on the highway, nothing major though. I installed the casters and it does drive better. I prefer the way mine drives with the caster correction, but I would not say that it is absolutely neccesary.

hth,
randall

 

[NorCalSam]

lifts

lol ......Finally someone had the balls to say something about the the Search comments. I've used the search it a great tool but its not all that. And apparently if your new to the site you need to post 10 things in order to use the PM or post a picture. Just chill out guys. Its all good.

Now, as far as the lift goes. I looked for the best real SUV/Family expedition/survivalist vehicle that one can by I decided on the fzj80 I wish I could get a HZj80 with manual transmition but that is another story. I felt that for the type of wheeling that I would want it do do I needed about a 3.5" lift with some 33x12.5 tires. At the time that was not availabe. I and others looked and found a 2.5 5 or 6" lift. I was going to go with the 5" but was talked out of it. I have the 2.5" HD lift with Rancho 9000 shocks 1.5" wheel spacers and 285 tires. My tech did not do the casters. This is very or was very commen because he didn't have the tools to do it. It drives ok but could be much better. After talking to Slee off road I will have this done. Off Road however, I have wider stance then most and I have full travel. Witch is very impressive by the way, even with seven people on board it just barley rubs, just barley. Now the lockers are the most impressive thing but I live in some of the steppest country in the US and this setup work very well. However, I wich I had more ground clearance. I find myself unhappy and wanting to go bigger. But for an expedition rig and daily driver its great. And remember that is what I got it for. I think most of us allways what to go bigger and tackle bigger obsticals untill we roll it...... That would be bad. I don't belive in lifting a truck over 2" without going out (wider) So for me after talking to people and slee off road I would need to go to a 4 or 5" lift to run 35s with the 1.5" spacers the spacers with the wider tires would be enough out for the up.

Now without the spacers you can run 35s on a 2.5" lift however you need to lose the flaps and flares and you will not have full travel. And if loaded down maybe more probs. the j springs 3.5" lift I was told by slee the you need caster corection and the swaybar drops. And after he told me anything over 2.5 should have the adjustable panhards. That in mind he also told me that there should be a need for them or anything other than casters with the 2.5" but my rear pulls to the right about 3/4 of and inch.


I'm going to stay were i'm at because if I go bigger I will want to change the gearing and it will never stop then i'll roll it.... Go mild and spend lots of money and time on protection for it.

 

[clarkrw3]

My dad is running 2.5med OME lift with regular shocks and 305/70 tires and arb/slee, front/rear and has the correcter bushings and I think it still wanders a bit and too much if you ask me.


All of this is part of the reason I have the slee 6" coming this week....that and it looks so very cool!! and wheels pretty well too!!

 

[e9999]

we need to hear more from folks who say they don't have any mods besides springs, I think, to ascertain whether this is indeed reasonable or not...

and probably should indeed, as Beo pointed out, differentiate more clearly between "stock OEM" and "regular length OME" non-L shocks.