New Castrol 20w50 High Zinc oil

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T5 with a seperate zzdp additive is my preferred choice, it gets blended down with some lighter mobile1 for the winter
 
Spike Strip said:
Absolutely. I put a CAT even on my pre CAT LCs to cut down the stink. I know CA Catalytic converters are now around $1200 for a CARB compliant one, but still cheaper than engine repair.

The Rotella is excellent oil and will be easier on your CAT, just wouldn't go past 3K miles on it.

Btw, when zddp was plentiful in oil, CATs were expected to last 100K miles. Now they want them to last 150k with lower emissions.

I'm not worried about it.
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That's very reassuring to know. Your cat is CARB compliant? What viscosity are you running?

Does Rotella being labeled as a diesel oil bear any consequence?

Regarding your earlier statement on ZDDP being consumed by the engine, have you seen any data on the level of consumption? I thought synthetic oils do a much better job of retaining the effectiveness of chemicals, thus allowing long oil change intervals on modern cars.
 
Racer65 said:
That's very reassuring to know. Your cat is CARB compliant? What viscosity are you running?

Does Rotella being labeled as a diesel oil bear any consequence?

Regarding your earlier statement on ZDDP being consumed by the engine, have you seen any data on the level of consumption? I thought synthetic oils do a much better job of retaining the effectiveness of chemicals, thus allowing long oil change intervals on modern cars.
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Yes, my CAT is the bolt-in Magnaflow for Calif, CARB OBD II compliant.

I run the 15w40 or 20w50 in summer, though not always. The 2F is a big hearty tractor motor and is very tolerant of different viscosities - FWIW, I've been running high-zinc oil since the engine was rebuilt in 2008, and installed that new Magnaflow CAT at the time and still pass smog in Los Angeles which is even more difficult because of AQMD and Winter/Summer blends of RF Gas. The engine builder had me use some super-high zinc break in oil for first 50 miles, too, and didn't kill the CAT.

I have seen and at some point downloaded the data on rate of consumption for various oil additives, but I'm not at home at the moment. Plus, not sure if I could even find them, again. It was probably from BobIsTheOilGuy forum.

Diesel oil differs from sparky oil in level of detergents. The star-burst labels on the oil jugs say they're rated for Spark and Diesel engines. The high-detergents are to keep the diesel soot suspended in the oil, and are just fine in these old engines. That's why diesel engine oil gets jet black so fast. My old TDI Golf oil would turn black under 100 miles.

Synthetic oils are usually made from higher-grade base stocks and have additive packages to last the 10K or 20K miles they advertise (under 'normal' driving conditions, not severe). They're fine for a 2F, just expensive; and the oil is so easy to change on a 40 or 60, I'd rather just use a good appropriate dino oil and change frequently. Same for trans and diffs.

Synthetic oils for modern aluminum block engines are a different story. I just bought a Tacoma V6 4x4 and if you use anything other than 0w20 full syn, you'll void the warranty. I wouldn't run anything but a full synthetic in a modern engine, particularly if it has a turbo. Toyota says 10K intervals on the Taco, but I will do 5K, cuz I keep my vehicles a loooooong time.
 
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I have spent a lot of time reading about ZDDP and oils and then looking for the ones available in Europe.
Most of the high ZDDP oil are not available in Europe for some reason, even when they are from European oil manufacturer. But we have plenty of oil labelled as specially designed for Classical car but where the technical spec never mention the amount of ZDDP...
Typically no trace of this Castrol Classic GTX anywhere in Europe.... But we have a Castrol Classic XL that is sold for a little fortune and don't give any detail why it's a better oil for classical car, you have to take the marketing.
Maybe there is a regulation story behind this but haven't been able to find it.

All specialized oils (racing, classic, etc.) are very expensive in Europe. So much that the one private importer of AMSOIL for Europe is able to sell them for cheaper than any other classical oil (often mineral) available here.
So in the end I ran AMSOIL Premium Protection.


All of that was before I found this blog: 540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths - https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
It's a very long but very interesting read by somewhat that supposedly knows a lot about oils.
It put in perspective the importance of ZDDP in the protection power of the oils. His point is that what only matter is the film strength / shear resistance that the oil can provide. And he tests a lot of oils to provide a ranking (that is quite surprising).
If you don't want to read and directly find the ranking you can search "The “WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST” itself" in the page.



In the end with all that, dozen of hours of reading of multiple sources, I don't know what really matters and what to believe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
That's a great blog. Very informative.

And it is very very confusing all the info and 'Data' out there....

There are probably modern oils with Moly as the anti-wear agent that protect as well, or even better than zddp, but I dunno. All I can go by is trying to get back to an SJ oil spec, which is what was around when these F/2F engines were shoved into chassis in Japan.

I think the longevity of these engines is testament that the oils available 40 years ago, worked.

The Castrol Classic meets that old SJ spec.

:meh:
 
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This thread made me think of all the 40s and 55s and 60s, back in the day, before they became collectible, that were neglected in all kinds of horrible ways; and when the owner even thought of doing maintenance, that usually meant just dumping in 8 cans of .25c Pennzoil 30 wt with a $1 junk Fram oil filter -- yet these engines seemed to last 100K+ miles with no problems. And the oils available then were nothing compared to quality of modern oils. The base stocks in this Castrol are far superior to what was available in 1985 ( and way mo' money, too).

Anyone remember Arco Graphite ?

We probably over-think this.
 
There are a couple of things I lament about the Castro GTX. One is that it's only available in a single viscosity combo. The other is that it's not available as a synthetic. For a Cruiser in warm climates it seems to be a perfect fit, but for other flat tappet vehicles elsewhere it may still be a compromise.
 
ZDDP levels were reduced as the API specs changed, i.e. the SJ, SK, ... SM, SN etc... Mostly because of Federal Regulation. One had to read the 'Star Burst' label on back of the bottles for the proper oil - SJ oils (the 1400 ppm zddp level minimum) were common through the early 2000s, then as older vehicles were removed from service, the demand/need for those oils declined. It wasn't uncommon to find old cases of SJ rated oil on the clearance shelves of Pep Boys, etc... I bought a few of those.

The Lucas oil is very good and a fair price, just has to be Amazon drop shipped. Castrol is avail at many Walmarts. At the source link that @Racer65 posted, it says the higher level of detergents (calcium, magnesium compounds ) in long-drain oils interferes with zddp. Again, this is why frequent dino oil changes are best for these antique engines. Amsoil, Redline, Brad Penn, etc are all great oils for a 2F, just expensive... I don't think $130 oil change is necessary. But that's just me.

Key is adequate protection and 3-5K miles oil changes; closer to the 3k if you're using an oil with 1200 ppm zddp, like Rotella diesel.
 
Spike Strip said:
ZDDP levels were reduced as the API specs changed, i.e. the SJ, SK, ... SM, SN etc... Mostly because of Federal Regulation. One had to read the 'Star Burst' label on back of the bottles for the proper oil - SJ oils (the 1400 ppm zddp level minimum) were common through the early 2000s, then as older vehicles were removed from service, the demand/need for those oils declined. It wasn't uncommon to find old cases of SJ rated oil on the clearance shelves of Pep Boys, etc... I bought a few of those.

The Lucas oil is very good and a fair price, just has to be Amazon drop shipped. Castrol is avail at many Walmarts. At the source link that @Racer65 posted, it says the higher level of detergents (calcium, magnesium compounds ) in long-drain oils interferes with zddp. Again, this is why frequent dino oil changes are best for these antique engines. Amsoil, Redline, Brad Penn, etc are all great oils for a 2F, just expensive... I don't think $130 oil change is necessary. But that's just me.

Key is adequate protection and 3-5K miles oil changes; closer to the 3k if you're using an oil with 1200 ppm zddp, like Rotella diesel.
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The main reason I looked for historical data is because I figure if I get back to historical level of ZDDP, nothing more, nothing less, I would expect my cat to tolerate it to a reasonable extent. Of course, I'm not sure how much California spec cat has changed over the years.
 
A California compliant CAT is actually better than the ones available when the 40s and 60s were sold. OBD II compliant is more stringent than the specs for CATs at the time. That's why CARB retroactively applied the reg. Also, they probably wanted the fees companies have to fork over for the certs.
 
I think the Wally super centers have it, but easy enough to check on-line for store availability. The delivered price from AMZ is the same anyway.
 
Just read that blog (all of it😯)
Really interesting though, thanks for linking that...
My main takeaway was the ineffectiveness of adding zinc additives (oops) to your oil and how it destroyed the film strength, which is the most important thing protecting from engine wear
oh and how good quaker state ranked against ams, mobile1, and all other group4 full synthetic.
 
Spike Strip said:
There are probably modern oils with Moly as the anti-wear agent that protect as well, or even better than zddp, but I dunno. All I can go by is trying to get back to an SJ oil spec, which is what was around when these F/2F engines were shoved into chassis in Japan.
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I have thought about this too since I use LiquiMoly products and additives in my Chevy truck to stave off the dreaded collapsed lifter from build up gumming up cylinder on demand.
 
I just bought some Driven GP-1 15/40. That's what Redline Cruisers recommends. But probably would have gone with the new Castrol had I known about it.
 
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I ordered some Valvoline VR1 10W30 because I feel my oil pressure is to high with the 20w50.
 
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