Man-a-Fre

[strap]

I ordered my OEM aus. sub tank from MAF and when I got my order is was missing some parts..but when I contacted them to let them know they sent the parts out right away no ?'s asked. I also got my kaymar from them and have asked them many ?'s through email in the year I have had the 80 and they always respond fast and are willing to give good info and advice. I have nothing but good things to say about them . I have not had any dealing with mr.slee but have heard only good things.


strap

 

[PKP80]

WOW,
I got all the heavy hitters all on one post....Thank you all for the direction. Everyones comments have been taken into thought and considered.

-Sam-

 

[Steve-O]

Steve,

I am sorry if you felt I was harsh, however I felt MAF was pretty harsh just 6 month ago when I tried to deal with MAF. I am not a $20 buyer and then bitch about the company I have tried many times over the years to give you a chance, and sometimes MAF is the only place to get stuff so I have to grin and bear it. I would say over the last 4 years I have spend at least $12k with you guys. However like my last post, after having your 40 series springs for three years they ARE JUNK, I do realize that you may have gotten new people and am sure new spring vendors but the fact still remains you have not stood by you products. Now that being said and since you are trying to make ammends I will tell you one of the things that will keep me from trying again that maybe you will review and change.

Keep in mind I have tried to talk to people at MAF about this and they would not listen ,so do with it what you like. You policy on shipping via UPS is a real pain in the butt, I guess you have gotten stiffed in the past but I can honestly tell you I have never had such a policy with any of the other 6 vendors I deal with on a regular basis, so I really do not see why you feel you must require a signature. I get stuff dropped at my home(s) and shop(s) all the time and never have a problem.

In case anyone is wondering why I deal with 6 vendors, and not stick with one, I really do stick with one however each vendor specializes in a particular model and I have most of the models made and sold here and all over the world so you have to use several to get the correct parts.

Steve just to be fair and not "harsh" I will end this on a good note and tell you that I think your 40 series rear tire carrier and cooler carrier is very cool and the half dozen or so people I know that have them to love them.

G'day,

Michael

Michael,
I am sorry that you are upset about our srpings, and I will agree, our safari springs are not the best on the market. Old man Emu's are. Which I am sure we would have told you this when you ordered them. The springs are made at the same place a lot of other vendors springs are made, and are desgined with one thing in mind, a decent spring at a decent price. If you want something that will perform the best, buy the OME, or make your own brand.
As for the shipping, we do offer no signature shipments, but you have to fax us a form with your signature on it. I dont believe this is that tough to do. We were burned very bad in the past, and this is why we do this. I am sure other companies will follow when the same thing happens to them.
Thank you for your compliment on our rear bumper, and I am sorry if you are still upset. So you know, a lot of people prefer our safari springs over any others. The manufacturer of the rear bumper you love will swear that they are the best. He runs them on a few of his vehicles, with no problems. It is possible that you received a defective spring, but owning it for 3 years is not covered by our warranty. It is also possible that you damaged it at some point off-roading.
Thank you, Steve.

 

[Beast II]

Come on Steve-O

"It is possible that you received a defective spring, but owning it for 3 years is not covered by our warranty."

Are you kidding me ? Isn't off-road equipment supposed to be manufactured to withstand abuse ? This was your big chance in front of an audience of thousands. Send the guy a lousy spring to replace what you claim was possibly "defective" in the first place ! Even if it wasn't defective, it should have been manufactured to take the abuse of offroading. Stand behind your products.

 

[dhanney]

Mattorton, I am a long time lurker but rarely post but felt I need to throw my opinion out on this one. About 3 years ago I had almost the exact experience you had with MAF on defective springs for my 88 FJ62. I installed per manufactures instructions and they immediatly went flat in the garage. It was a total nightmare dealing with MAF on replacements. I finally received a refund but had to pay for shipping both ways. This sure let a bad taste in my mouth. I actually saved the nasty email MAF sent me regarding the matter.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks. Doug

 

[Steve-O]

"It is possible that you received a defective spring, but owning it for 3 years is not covered by our warranty."

Are you kidding me ? Isn't off-road equipment supposed to be manufactured to withstand abuse ? This was your big chance in front of an audience of thousands. Send the guy a lousy spring to replace what you claim was possibly "defective" in the first place ! Even if it wasn't defective, it should have been manufactured to take the abuse of offroading. Stand behind your products.

I am sorry if this has upset you as well. At the time this went on, I was not working for Man-A-Fre, so I do not know the whole story or how much of it is true. I am not sure what business you are in, but most manufacturers do not warranty off-road products for longer than 3 years. When a customer calls us, we call the manufacturer to try to get something replaced. If they deny us the claim, then we also have to deny the customer a replacment. Really, its not some hidden agenda, I would love to help out everyone I can, but sometimes the time frames are just too large. Look at Toyota for example, if you ordered a brand new spring from them, and it went bad three years later, there is absolutely nothing they will do for you. Thier warranty period is 1 year. I really do feel that we try to help everyone to our fullest, but we cant win them all over. Steve.

 

[Steve-O]

Mattorton, I am a long time lurker but rarely post but felt I need to throw my opinion out on this one. About 3 years ago I had almost the exact experience you had with MAF on defective springs for my 88 FJ62. I installed per manufactures instructions and they immediatly went flat in the garage. It was a total nightmare dealing with MAF on replacements. I finally received a refund but had to pay for shipping both ways. This sure let a bad taste in my mouth. I actually saved the nasty email MAF sent me regarding the matter.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks. Doug

Doug please, I looked into your account. The springs left here on 12/17/01, the full refund INCLUDING freight was issued on 1/03/02, thats about 2 weeks, with shipping times and installation included. Considering you are in Colorado, I would say that is pretty quick. I am sorry if the springs didnt work out for you, but it looks like we took care of things at our end. This is not something I want to get into a fight with you about, I just figured people would like to hear our side. Steve.

 

[landtank]

Doug please, I looked into your account. The springs left here on 12/17/01, the full refund INCLUDING freight was issued on 1/03/02, thats about 2 weeks, with shipping times and installation included. Considering you are in Colorado, I would say that is pretty quick. I am sorry if the springs didnt work out for you, but it looks like we took care of things at our end. This is not something I want to get into a fight with you about, I just figured people would like to hear our side. Steve.

Stevo-O, beaten and battered but not down

 

[mot]

Stevo-O, beaten and battered but not down

It's nice that we have someone/anyone, at all, especially someone like Steve representing MAF here.

It's good to see that despite some difficulties they may have had with some customers in the past they seem to be trying hard to make things better.

Mot

 

[Steve-O]

Steve, I have owned over 47 land Cruisers in my life and have been wheeling for over 20 years, I currently have 9 Land Cruisers and several are the rarest in North or South America. In that whole time I have never rolled a cruiser or abused it enough to break a spring. I only tell you this so you realize I am not a newbie, nor one time 40 series owner. That being said Steve please do not try to make excuses about the springs or presume it is driver error, you are just embarrassing yourself.

As for the shipping policy it is good to know but I will tell you when I ordered stuff last time I asked specifically if there is any way I can get it without have to sign for it and I was told flat out NO. So again that customer service is lacking and I guess the staff needs to be trained a little better.


G'day,

Michael

Michael,
Ok, now I'm not even sure what you are talking about. When did I make excuses or claim it was a driver error? I specifically wrote, "maybe it was a defective spring" It is very rare to hear someone with a defective spring but it does happen. I thought with your 20 years of experience you would have noticed it sooner than 3 years... I know that your not a newbie, I have talked to you a few times on the phone before. I thought our conversations went well, I remember you talking about all of your cruisers, you never once mentioned something that was going wrong with us. So again, as I sit hear embarrassing myself more, I must say this. I am sorry. I have apoligized once or twice already, I dont know what else to say. Our customer service has improved, our sales staff has improved, and I am running around the board trying to defend us from people like you. No company is perfect, I am simply trying to help people out. Whether they are new, like us, or hate us. I am done arguing about this now, PM me if you have anything else to say. Steve.

 

[alaskacruiser]

Michael (AKA tlcruiserman)- In all fairness, it seems like you may be blindsiding Steve here. From the sound of things, you have spoken with Steve, but you've never brought up any of these concerns to him on the phone! Instead, you waited to pounce on Man-a-fre on an internet forum where you didn't know whether anyone from Man-a-fre would be there to defend themselves. Not quite fair, if you ask me. If you had a problem with Man-a-fre, you should have given Steve or one of the other higher-ups a call to give them a chance to straighten things out. As for your spring failure, expecting a warranty after 3 years is unrealistic, and it sounds like we're talking about a cheaper alternative to OME springs here, so you shouldn't be surprised- don't blame Man-a-fre for stocking a cheaper alternative, blame the spring manufacturer for making a product that you don't think was worth the price. With 20 years of experience, you should know you get what you pay for and to be choosy about brands. Just my .02 since Steve seems to be taking some unfair bashing here. If you guys have a problem with a company, at least have the courtesy to talk to the owner on the phone and see what they have to say before bashing them to hell on a public forum and costing them countless sales.

 

[turbocruiser]

Michael (AKA tlcruiserman)- In all fairness, it seems like you may be blindsiding Steve here. From the sound of things, you have spoken with Steve, but you've never brought up any of these concerns to him on the phone! Instead, you waited to pounce on Man-a-fre on an internet forum where you didn't know whether anyone from Man-a-fre would be there to defend themselves. Not quite fair, if you ask me. If you have a problem with the company, you should have given Steve or one of the other higher-ups a call and given them a chance to straighten things out. As for your spring failure, expecting a warranty after 3 years is unrealistic, and it sounds like we're talking about a cheaper alternative to OME springs here, so you shouldn't be surprised. Just my .02 since Steve seems to be taking some unfair bashing here. If you guys have problems with a company, at least have the courtesy to talk to the owner on the phone and see what they have to say before bashing them to hell and costing them countless sales.

I have to agree. A good company with good service knows that a "complaint is a gift" because as long as you are still talking about any agravations, at least an amount of trust is present. Its when you STOP talking to the company and start talking to the company's customers via forums like this one that things get too tough. Still it sounds to me like this tlccruiserman has bypassed the proper grievance process by not talking to the proper people at the proper time. Maybe that is totally off, and I do not intend to offend, but if Steve and he spoke cordially and no agravations were spoken when privacy was present, then I think it wrong to bring those agravations to this totally public place. JMHO

For the record, I have had several successful transactions with MAF, no problems whatsoever. Can I call them and take away awesome advice on truly technical things, no, but then again we all already knew vendors like Slee are one in a million. I know that when I need to know something technical that the fine folks up at Slee, (whoever answers the phone cause there are no "bad apples" that need to be picked off the tree) can answer those things for me. I try to be considerate and call only about things that I have purchased, or will purchase, from them and only when I cannot find the thing out on my own research, but, I know that once I purchase something from them I pretty much also purchased a "lifetime advice policy" on that specific thing and I totally appreciate that type of service and truly have not found that type of service anywhere else.

Also if I had purchased a less than top quality product from MAF, when something better was available, and it failed three years later, the first and only thought to myself would be, "Crap, shoulda got the better thing huh?" HTH

 

[Steve-O]

Thank you, I really appreciate the back-up here. Every Land Cruiser company has their ups and downs, and everyone will have their favorite. I can respect michaels opinion, but I also feel that he could have taken other actions. On another note, we ran a 1 year report for all of our returns, we found our return rate to be exactly 1%. This rate includes wrong ordered parts (both by reps and customers), defective parts, damaged parts, and cores. I think this is pretty good right?
Turbocruiser, thank you for your opinion. One thing that you do have to consider with tech help between us and Slee is that we specailize in all cruisers. 40 to 100. We try our hardest to know everything, but in reality it will never happen. No doubt, I know more about the 40 than the 80, and Christo knows more about the 80 than the 40. Christo is a very bright guy, and I respect that. He also knows how a business should be run, and will back us up on some things, as I will do the same for him.

 

[turbocruiser]

Turbocruiser, thank you for your opinion. One thing that you do have to consider with tech help between us and Slee is that we specailize in all cruisers. 40 to 100. We try our hardest to know everything, but in reality it will never happen. No doubt, I know more about the 40 than the 80, and Christo knows more about the 80 than the 40. Christo is a very bright guy, and I respect that. He also knows how a business should be run, and will back us up on some things, as I will do the same for him.

Ohh, I hear ya man, and I agree with ya, it was not in any way whatsoever worded or intended as insult I was just saying that the technical capability of each and every person I have ever had the opportunity of talking to at Slee is tremendous. Everyone there has totally learned their tech stuff inside and out (80's, 100's and probably lots and lots on mini's, 60's, 62's etc.) and they are always as accomodating as possible about sharing that tech stuff.

The three few times that I had to ask about anything technical with the products you sell, it seemed the tech on the phone referred to a catalog or something and "read" me the answer. They were polite, proper, professional and accomodating I could simply sense that they were struggling as much as I was at finding an answer. Again it was not worded or intened as insult; its just the difference between one place and another. Keep in mind, I've supported your outfit as well (to the tune of many pretty pennys) and will continue to do so but when i call its pretty much "this is what I want, here is my card". Again, not a complaint, not an insult, not an argument. Thanks.

 

[Steve-O]

turbocruiser:
Thank you, dont worry at all, I never thought it was insluting one bit. When we train people, I obviously drop a stack of papers on thier desk for them to refer to about certain parts. I try to know a lot about all of our parts, but certain specs I forget often. I even blanked on the spread of the stock 40 rims a minute ago! 6 x 5.5 dont PM me!! I also have heard really good things about slee. I have talked to a few of there reps, they seemed nice. C-dan was telling me about how knowledgable Robbie was there, and that is a pretty good compliment.

 

[ryanjl]

Hmmmm..... after owning 47 cruisers for over 20 years, one would think that you'd know the cruiser lean is common, and often not "fix-able" with new aftermarket springs?

Am I right?

 

[PKP80]

Just got my OME lift from Man-a-Fre.....costomer service was pretty good. They didn't have one of the rear shocks and they are getting that to me ASAP. So Far so Good.

-SAm

 

[dd113]

I really agree with Christo's rant. I have said it on many occassions also. When I priced things I used to be afraid to mark items up too much as "people wont want them cuz they cost too much" That was the cruiserhead in me talking. Now that I own a business I need to think like a business and priced items accordingly.

The consumer has a job to do. They need to figure out what they want and what it is worth. If you look around on the web you will find most pricing is close then you see these super cheap offers on some items, especially ARB bars. Almost all of these "businesses" work out of a computer and drop ship their items to customers. There is nothing wrong with that but the the super low prices are bad for real business owners who actually stock items, pay taxes on them and ship them. The super low pricing is good for the consumer. The consumer must decide on wheather they want to pay a little more and support a business within the community or save as much as possible. This is a decision that does not have a wrong answer.

I ahve had people bring in springs and bars then brag about how cheap they got them for on e bay etc... then want me to install them. I guess you can imagine how I react to that. If the purchase was from a cruiser business I am happy to do it; if it from a cheapo e bay guy then you are out of luck.

Another thing to consider. If you buy a kit from any cruiser business owner or legitimate ARB dealer you will get full support for that product. You will not get that from an internet based business.

Sure, I would like everyone to buy everything from me but it often does not make sense. I may not have it in stock or shipping might kill you.

My opinion is figure out the average price nationwide, find the closest vendor to you with a good rep and buy it from them if their price is close to the national average. If the vendor is a TLCA Assct. member; all the better.

 

[Zang]

Lurker for some time and first time to post. Just wanted to share my experience with MAF. Last week, I called MAF for a set of coils (861/862) and an ARB winch bumper. Steve said both were in stock so i figured, MAF price plus sales tax is about the same as lower price plus shipping from other places so I decided to get them from him ( no waiting period!). Coils were right but the bumper was wrong, it's not for the 80, although the box and mounting kit says it is. Steve was very sorry for the screw up and promised a quick replacement. I drove 70 miles and wasn't happy to have to drive back again. The next day Steve called and had arranged for it to be shipped directly to my house at no cost to me. Coils and bumper are already installed...what a difference. MAF had done a good job.

 

[Steve-O]

Well thank you everyone for suggestions, compliments, and comments. I have been taking notes of everything. I am also happy to see other vendors and owners with lots of experience chiming in. Sam, your shock should be arriving today. Zang, I am happy we got that worked out for you. (We had 2 winch mount 80 bumpers in stock, ARB misboxed both with 100 series bumpers.) Landpimp, sorry about the windows, we have a strong 50/50 chance from australia that they will be in good shape. Toyotadrunk, thanks for the comment, I really am trying to build personal and repeat buyer relationships, so give me a call and I'll sell you something with a smile on my face David, couldnt agree with you more, I am also happy we have worked things out between us. (I misjudged some of his previous posts.) :whoops: Thanks, Steve.